Are we Saintly?

[ImpSaint]

When I think about my younger days and the language we used to describe any one that turned out not to be English. It is no wonder the term racialism was invented.
Do you know though I cannot think of any of my friends that had a particular dislike for some one who wasn't English or English looking. We used to joke with our coloured friends about their colour just as they would joke about ours. I was proud to say I was even a best man at the wedding of my Indian friend as I was to a Jamaican friends wedding.
I some times feel though that some of this so called political correctness has gone way over the top. Maybe it is a generation thing I don't know but being called a racist because of an expression or saying which to my mind should not offend anyone nor would I want to.
I can think of plenty of other ways to offend someone without the need to bringing race or creed into it!!
As for Saints fans...... I have heard the odd remark that in today's language would be deemed as racist but knowing the perpetrator would not be meant as such. So why is it so to other people? I guess it is because the minority that do mean it as an insult set the standard for the rest of us perhaps?

What I mean is similar to what you say however where the F or C word can be added in as an expressive word and taken as not insulting in the tone or can be extremely offensive if used in an aggressive manner you cannot pass of the addition of 'chink' or Black as not racist.

If someone loses their inhibitions and utters "you useless black bas****" They are racist. "you useless bas****" is what a non racist would say because they would talk about the player as a person. Would the same person utter "you useless white bas****"? Of course not so plain and simple this person is racist and forgot not to say what he believes. You hear this stuff all the time on the terraces and cannot be passed off as not being racist.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

Years ago I got glared at because I said one of our players (forget who) was like a gorilla. I had not considered that he was black and as I would never call a black person a monkey, the word gorilla in my mind was only connected with him being big. So I had made an apparently racist remark in innocence because my mind doesn't even work that way.

 

[Whiteley Saint]

Years ago I got glared at because I said one of our players (forget who) was like a gorilla. I had not considered that he was black and as I would never call a black person a monkey, the word gorilla in my mind was only connected with him being big. So I had made an apparently racist remark in innocence because my mind doesn't even work that way.

It has become a bit of a minefield. Things change over time and therefore what was once ok is no longer acceptable. Thing is people don't always get the memo to advise them of the change. For example the term 'coloured' has innocently been used in this thread, but that is now considered unacceptable as people should be referred to as black (if that is what the person is). People used to be racist if they hated someone for their colour or nationality now a remark made in innocence can have you branded as a racist.

Off the topic but why is it now acceptable to swear all the time? The c word seems to now be acceptable whereas it used to be something you just did not say. Have people forgotten the rest of the English language?

 

[Missing Lambo]

Off the topic but why is it now acceptable to swear all the time? The c word seems to now be acceptable whereas it used to be something you just did not say. Have people forgotten the rest of the English language?

You're right. It is off topic so **** off! Seriously, it does amaze me how acceptable it is to swear like a trooper, although I find the C word is used less. Perhaps it's a North/South divide.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

And some people really go out of their way to take offence. Black people prefer the term black....fine...only polite to use a word that doesn't offend, but then the real fringe nutters start objecting to our negative connotations to the word 'black'....as in black ball, black list, black magic etc. These uses of the word 'black' has no link with black people and predates their appropriation of the word 'black.' Luckily most people realise this.

 

[Whiteley Saint]

You're right. It is off topic so **** off! Seriously, it does amaze me how acceptable it is to swear like a trooper, although I find the C word is used less. Perhaps it's a North/South divide.

It's used mostly on forums and social media I would say. More hiding behind keyboards. I'm not actually on social media at all but when looking through twitter for Saints news and if the live chat is on YouTube some of the responses by people are way over the top.

 

[Whiteley Saint]

And some people really go out of their way to take offence. Black people prefer the term black....fine...only polite to use a word that doesn't offend, but then the real fringe nutters start objecting to our negative connotations to the word 'black'....as in black ball, black list, black magic etc. These uses of the word 'black' has no link with black people and predates their appropriation of the word 'black.' Luckily most people realise this.

Yes this is when things get ridiculous.

 

[Archers Road]

Being blessed with a puerile sense of humour, I still find swearing funny; though it loses it's comic value when used too liberally. Basically if it's shocking, it's funny. Though I wouldn't describe the deceased at a funeral as a "bit of a c***" during the eulogy. Unless he clearly was.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

Used in a shocking way it can be funny, but some people just put swear words in front of everything even when they are not particularly angry or frustrated. They just waste time and energy and make themselves look thick.

I was walking passed some teenage girls when one fell off the wall they were sitting on. I looked across as anyone would, so she asked what I was effing looking at. 'Absolutely nothing,' I replied. Went straight over her head, but that's what I think of people who swear and get angry for no reason at all.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

When my daughter was about 6, she came home from school to tell me they had a new classmate, who was a brown girl. She was dead accurate too, as the little girl in question was indeed brown.
I am curious who was it that decided that black is the correct term to use these days, as it doesn't begin to be an accurate description of physical colour, or any kind of reference to geographical origin. I have never seen an actually black person. Lots of different shades from beige to dark brown but never black. Non white certainly, but then most white people are non white when compared to actual white...this is why arbitrary descriptors are always going to get some people in trouble, because they are not remotely logical or accurate.
I know there has to be some kind of generic term to describe similar racial groups for convenience sake, however if society wasn't racist, the colour wouldn't be mentioned at all as it doesn't matter and varies anyway...it's a bloody minefield really, especially when talking around those people who hunt for "racism" in everything when it is usually just poorly chosen descriptors and not derogatory at all.
I'm thick skinned myself though, which is much more relevant than the actual colour

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

And sometimes I am surprised to find that some celebrity I would have considered white is actually referred to as black. Some 'black' people are paler than some Mediterranean people. I assume 'black' refers to African origin rather than to colour. And why is someone who is three quarters white referred to as black. I had this conversation with someone who suggested that these days we should avoid teaching too much British history (yes, really) because black people could have no pride in it. Someone with mixed heritage has the same right to be proud of British writers, engineers etc as a white person. After all, any white person could find out their ancestors only came over from Europe a few generations ago.

 

[Archers Road]

I'm tempted to point out that we all came from Africa originally. But poor old Meryll Streep got in trouble for saying that recently.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

I'm tempted to point out that we all came from Africa originally. But poor old Meryll Streep got in trouble for saying that recently.

It's the truth and quite funny, but I suppose they took offence in context...people were asking why more black actors weren't nominated for awards. Some might suggest that they weren't good enough in this years films.

 

[fatletiss]

It's used mostly on forums and social media I would say. More hiding behind keyboards. I'm not actually on social media at all but when looking through twitter for Saints news and if the live chat is on YouTube some of the responses by people are way over the top.

The use of the c word at games annoys me. Arsenal away was awful, especially when I was stood with a 14 year old.

 

[tiggermaster]

Going back to the amount of swearing, if I remember rightly isn't there a piece in a Simon Hughes book where he reports that when John Embury was suffering recurrent injuries towards the end of his career and was asked: How his back was? He replied 'The Fu**ing fu**er is fu**ing fu**ed' This always seemed to me to be highly expressive and led your imagination to perceive fairly accurately how Embers was feeling..

 

[saintlyhero]

What I mean is similar to what you say however where the F or C word can be added in as an expressive word and taken as not insulting in the tone or can be extremely offensive if used in an aggressive manner you cannot pass of the addition of 'chink' or Black as not racist.

If someone loses their inhibitions and utters "you useless black bas****" They are racist. "you useless bas****" is what a non racist would say because they would talk about the player as a person. Would the same person utter "you useless white bas****"? Of course not so plain and simple this person is racist and forgot not to say what he believes. You hear this stuff all the time on the terraces and cannot be passed off as not being racist.

my gf has on occasion called me a "bald ****" - pretty unattractive and uncouth for a young lady, but I can't be too fussy as i'm a bald **** and it's tricky to find like minded adults. It's a vicious circle

anyhow, it's pretty common to hear fat bastard, ginger bastard, bald bastard. Well it is if you're me, but these are not deemed as serious as your "black bastard" because of what the social media bloggers call privilege.
The basic principle being that gingers have not suffered years of persecution or fat people have not been hung from trees because there BMI is out of whack. So as a result the word carries with it a weight of feeling that demands more respect and more thought in our usage.