Are we really getting better?

[joseshivers]

O.k so we are a game behind in my example (attached) but we are worse off (even if we beat Arsenal).

I actually wanted to compare the tables so I could see if combining Mayes good(ish) away record with Van Gaals improved home form would put us much higher up the table (answer is no because Van Gaals home record is actually only marginally better).

Anyhow I hear the argument we are improving which never felt like the case last season, but I'm not too sure if I believe this.

We have had a lot of injuries, true but also no european distraction and a serious outlay on new signings.

I'm starting to wonder if employing Moyes was just paying lip service to Ferguson when the club actually were never going to give him a real chance? It seems like Van Gall is much more supported than Moyes ever was but his record does not stand up to scrutiny.

Now don't get me wrong I want Van Gall to succeed just like I wanted Moyes to and in fact for anyone who takes over United I would feel the same but why is Van GAaal escaping the criticism that Moyes got last season?

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[UnitedinRed]

Weve got the worst injury crisis I've ever seen (weve had bad ones before but not like this. Never ending) and could be 4th this evening.

 

[Dave A]

Despite the injury crisis we're having we're sill playing better than we did at any time under Moyes.

 

[weararedbonnet]

Under Moyes the traditional attacking United way was lost, and seemed lost forever. LVG at least makes it look better, and personally I have a lot more confidence with LVG than Moyes.

Add to that a never ending injury list, I still have faith that LVG is the man to get us back to winning ways

 

[Treble]

Under Moyes the traditional attacking United way was lost, and seemed lost forever. LVG at least makes it look better, and personally I have a lot more confidence with LVG than Moyes.

Add to that a never ending injury list, I still have faith that LVG is the man to get us back to winning ways

It does make you scratch your head that the pundits all talk about how Liverpool's predicament isn't so bad bcos Sturridge (1 injured player) is missing and therefore they're not really that bad. But they completely overlook the number of injuries we have in defence and have a very simple "Man United's defence is terrible" repeated commentary without putting it into context at all.

 

[Swarbs]

As I've said before, Moyes didn't come in for all that much criticism in the early part of the season. Most people were willing to give him time and a chance to try and adapt his own management style to the attacking style of Utd.

It wasn't until December when we rolled over at home for Everton and Newcastle that questions really started to be asked, and the losses against Spurs and Stoke in January were when the big pressure began to mount.

If we're still 7th or 8th in January, then I'd expect LVG to come under pressure, and to deserve it too.

 

[Treble]

Re the OP, I'm past caring about last season or comparing us against Moyes era. IMO the real issue is have we plugged the gaps bcos of the deterioration in our squad during the last 3/4 seasons under Fergie? Particularly the creativity in our midfield. I think that gets easily forgotten. And also our defence.

Our midfield does indeed have more creativity, due largely to two of our most important additions - Herrera and Di Maria. Add to that, Mata, Rooney, Januzaj and with Blind & Carrick I believe we have that now. BUT whether through injuries or through poor team selection, we haven't played Herrera or Mata enough. I am becoming a fierce critic of Van Gaal for this. Not the injuries, but the turjid thick pea soup he's serving up which stifles the creativity and expansive, free-flowing football that we have the midfielders to demonstrate. One such example was yesterday when he brought on Fletcher. Really couldn't understand why it wasn't Herrera. The important thing then was to add a bit of steel, but also hold on to possession - ideal for seeing the game out while also pegging Arsenal back. But equally importantly, to give Herrera some playing time.

Defensively, I'm not too troubled. Regardless of the injuries, we need at least one CB, LB and RB and LVG's doing the best he can given the circumstances. We aren't conceding loads either so lets take one game at a time and compare that part of our game when players are bought/return from injury.

 

[Dave A]

Our midfield does indeed have more creativity, due largely to two of our most important additions - Herrera and Di Maria. Add to that, Mata, Rooney, Januzaj and with Blind & Carrick I believe we have that now. BUT whether through injuries or through poor team selection, we haven't played Herrera or Mata enough. I am becoming a fierce critic of Van Gaal for this. Not the injuries, but the turjid thick pea soup he's serving up which stifles the creativity and expansive, free-flowing football that we have the midfielders to demonstrate. One such example was yesterday when he brought on Fletcher. Really couldn't understand why it wasn't Herrera.

RE Herrera, he's just come back from a broken rib so leaving him out for a couple of extra games is probably going to benefit him in the long run. But yeah, I'm hoping Herrera is back in the starting 11 soon, he was playing great before the injury.

 

[Christiansmith]

O.k so we are a game behind in my example (attached) but we are worse off (even if we beat Arsenal).

I actually wanted to compare the tables so I could see if combining Mayes good(ish) away record with Van Gaals improved home form would put us much higher up the table (answer is no because Van Gaals home record is actually only marginally better).

Anyhow I hear the argument we are improving which never felt like the case last season, but I'm not too sure if I believe this.

We have had a lot of injuries, true but also no european distraction and a serious outlay on new signings.

I'm starting to wonder if employing Moyes was just paying lip service to Ferguson when the club actually were never going to give him a real chance? It seems like Van Gall is much more supported than Moyes ever was but his record does not stand up to scrutiny.

Now don't get me wrong I want Van Gall to succeed just like I wanted Moyes to and in fact for anyone who takes over United I would feel the same but why is Van GAaal escaping the criticism that Moyes got last season?

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You can see what most of us can see: an incredible list of injuries. And he has not had a decent stable defence since the start. So can you judge him properly? You are better man than most if you can.

I was prepared to give Moyes the same patience not because of injuries but because he was following SAF and the players were feeling the aftereffects. And I was in favour of keeping Moyes for another season.

I can say that LVG may not have got more points than Moyes at this stage but what is in his favour is the HOPE that things will get better. Under Moyes many fans thought they couldn't see things improving.

In January/February we will be in abetter position to assess.

 

[cytrax]

Watch Moyes news conferences to understand why you cannot possibly compare him to LVG. Moyes inherited team that just won the championship but he was way out of his depth to manage them. In the end, players lost confidence in him.

For LVG, had we won that Leicester game, the season would be in full flow now. The confidence was hit badly that day but thankfully we are on road to rebuilding.

 

[luvgonzo]

I thought the defence looked ok against Arsenal, the overall performance was a battling one in order to grind out a result and that's what you got. It's a start for you.

 

[weararedbonnet]

its simple, YES

 

[Chief]

Just about yes.

Shaky first half but we really should have made it three and were well on top before their consolation made it nervy towards the end.

Very, very impressed with the composure that Blackett and McNair showed while under siege, they could both become good players. Time will tell.

It does concern me the lack of faith he's showing in Herrera as I think he's a far better bet than Fellaini will ever be. The job got done against Arsenal though so I'll not complain yet.

Ultimately though a CM of Blind, Herrera and Carrick will be very good with the flair players in front. Maybe Strootman to add to that soon?

van Persie sadly looks shot. Could do with a fit Falcao but I would play Rooney at centre forward and give Mata a run, which he deserves.

 

[HRH Custard VC]

Yes were are getting better

 

[Swarbs]

van Persie sadly looks shot. Could do with a fit Falcao but I would play Rooney at centre forward and give Mata a run, which he deserves.

This. Rooney was quality when played as centre forward in 09/10 and 11/12. The main reason he was moved back was more to do with the lack of quality at CM - SAF decided / was only able to bring in RVP and push Rooney back rather than get a top class replacement for Scholes.

Now we have Mata, ADM and Herrera able to pull the strings in that position, and RVP is fading badly, put Rooney back up top. He's not the third highest PL goalscorer in history for nothing.

 

[Bodinki]

This. Rooney was quality when played as centre forward in 09/10 and 11/12. The main reason he was moved back was more to do with the lack of quality at CM - SAF decided / was only able to bring in RVP and push Rooney back rather than get a top class replacement for Scholes.

Now we have Mata, ADM and Herrera able to pull the strings in that position, and RVP is fading badly, put Rooney back up top. He's not the third highest PL goalscorer in history for nothing.

He should totally do this.
Not only can Rooney do a very good job as a No9, but you will also get far more out of Mata by having him as your regular No. 10. With Januzaj and Di maria either side of him. That makes for a great front line.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

He should totally do this.
Not only can Rooney do a very good job as a No9, but you will also get far more out of Mata by having him as your regular No. 10. With Januzaj and Di maria either side of him. That makes for a great front line.

When they have the ball....not so much without it though. Pretty light weight so will put a lot of pressure on the midfield 2 but still good enough to beat most sides.

Can't believe how quickly RVP has fallen out of form/favour. He was the greatest striker in the history of the universe a year ago. Now he looks like Torres.

 

[Bodinki]

When they have the ball....not so much without it though. Pretty light weight so will put a lot of pressure on the midfield 2 but still good enough to beat most sides.

Can't believe how quickly RVP has fallen out of form/favour. He was the greatest striker in the history of the universe a year ago. Now he looks like Torres.

I could see it coming, told the United fans as much in the summer as well.
He is still too injury prone, injury prone players, once they hit 30 and beyond, start to go downhill real fast.
Takes longer for them to heal, takes much longer to get their match fitness back once they heal.
And each new injury takes something out of them. Especially with strikers, who are confidence players, a bad patch of form coupled with dodgy fitness, really knocks their confidence and they just stop performing.

 

[Chief]

When they have the ball....not so much without it though. Pretty light weight so will put a lot of pressure on the midfield 2 but still good enough to beat most sides.

Can't believe how quickly RVP has fallen out of form/favour. He was the greatest striker in the history of the universe a year ago. Now he looks like Torres.

It wouldn't be a midfield two though, it would be a three.

Rooney 9, Mata 10 behind him, Di Maria and Janzaj (or Young. Or even Nani were he to return) either side with Blind, Carrick and Herrera as a three man CM. Might lack a bit of genuine width but solid.

Shame for RVP but age does appear to have caught up with him. A couple of goals could sort his confidence out but right now we can't afford to persevere with him.

 

[Swarbs]

I could see it coming, told the United fans as much in the summer as well.
He is still too injury prone, injury prone players, once they hit 30 and beyond, start to go downhill real fast.
Takes longer for them to heal, takes much longer to get their match fitness back once they heal.
And each new injury takes something out of them. Especially with strikers, who are confidence players, a bad patch of form coupled with dodgy fitness, really knocks their confidence and they just stop performing.

True, but Costa is still going strong and he's about 42...