Ahh right, football manager shouts at players, shock. Ferguson is, of course, completely unique in this phenomenon.
I'm not "hell bent" on anything. I'm just trying to have a discussion on footballing matters. Ok, you don't agree- nothing wrong with that, but there's no need to turn it into a war. I made a point, it was refuted, so I gathered some evidence to back it up. It doesn't bother me that you think differently- I would expect you to defend your own club and a man who is -quite rightly- a legend at that club. You could accept though, that while Fergie's achievements are undeniable, his methods have not always gone down well with everyone.
Of course Man Utd are in decline. They are 9th in the league but only Hull and Southampton look out of place above them.
In fairness Saint you've chipped in on an ongoing conversation I was in last night and proved precisely nothing. Until such time as someone shows me quotes from a player saying he was, and I quote the person I was talking to last night in this, 'scared' while employed by Manchester United and that it was a bad experience I will take it as I know, and that is the players had/have complete respect for Ferguson and his 'methods' (none of which have ever been employed by other managers of course). He shouted at them, so what? They probably deserved it too.
You just accepted that he shouts at players (as all managers do) but refuse to accept that he could have upset players along the way? The point being made on here isn't that upsets ALL players etc, it is that it has upset players. Saint as then merely tried to provide some evidence to prove the point (which didn't really need proving considering Fergie's "hair dryer" reputation) which you are just trying to pick fault with everything, arguing for the sake of it if you like. Fair enough, Fergie is a Man Utd legend and you've adored him for twenty-seven (debatable considering the first seven) years, but that doesn't mean he didn't have his faults too.
I think scared is the wrong word, there was certainly intimidation to a degree. There was the wee battle over who controlled Backs, Posh or Fergie He did kick a boot in beck's face. Fergie has also been decked for ranting at a player so there is form. For me though his intention was not to intimidate or scare for the most part, he just wasn't getting what he wanted and threw a wobbler, my 2 year old does it
Sorry didn't read through Forgive me Herr Gerrez. Rooney is one I could see snapping and decking Fergie in a dressing room. Fergie whinging to the media like some lost old fart who doesn't remember where he lives about Rooney wanting to leave is kind of an indication that he wasn't prepared to mix it up with Rooney in the dressing room but that's just imo
Nah, its good that you've said it because I was getting **** for it no player should be scared of their manager but the manager should have a fear factor about them. Subtle, but there is a difference.
I have never said he didn't 'upset' players Gerr, at all. This while discussion stemmed from last night when I refuted a claim that his players were scared of him. As Sisu says, it is different. The whole argument has since morphed but I think I've made my point, thank you.
If you was on last night then you should have seen that I made the point that 'scared' and 'fear factor' are different. you will have also seen others laughing at me for such a suggestion too
I was on last night, is your memory really that ****ed? I know you agreed with me as it goes, was never 'arguing' with you this morning either.
I wasn't really involved in the main debate, couldn't be arsed to read the long posts I was talking to DR mainly
That usually goes for bosses not just managers or leaders in general. They are not supposed to be your friend, not if they want respect
Nah, you've been getting **** for saying there's a difference between being fearful and being scared and they are, I'm afraid, synonyms. Sisu has brought in a slightly different concept, but as he says, he hadn't read it through. Back on topic. I'm all for managers being in charge. The manager is the embodiment of the club to the players, in my view, and what he says goes. The older ones amongst us have long bemoaned the rise of player power in the game to the point where players think they are more important than their clubs. Fergie may have felt his abrasive style was the only way he could keep control, I don't know. As I said, I'm merely making observations, not judgements. On a personal level, if he'd shouted at me from a distance of three inches, I'd have nutted him (and I'm definitely not the aggressive type, I just wouldn't put up with that) . That would have been the end of my contract.
If someone is fearful of a person then that person has a fear factor about them. Players shouldn't be scared but they should be fearful. #samedifference
