Are Liverpool in a Perpetual State of Transition?

Liverpool hoping against hope. Sick as a parrot

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May be it is not Klopp's fault. But some of us are as sick as a parrot too to see the same thing happening time and time again. It is only September some say and too early to start whinging. But it is also too early for the team to repeat the same **** ups as last season. Defensive problems, Lapses at set pieces, chances squandered... How the hell did we lose last night when we were so dominant in the first half?

 

The transition question is valid and I feel that it very much where we go wrong, we need to overhaul the squad and we've done it to a point but there are always gaps. We need to be ruthless and get rid of players that don't perform. It's always 2 or 3 players in to plug a gap but then there are always those that are left. Over time Hendo has been poor, Klavan and Lovren have shown to be not good enough, Mingolet has improved but is he really good enough, Moreneo given another chance.

Klopp wanted to give people a chance but that time is over some have not taken the chance so they get moved on. We've bought well in general under Klopp but it's too slow. If by next season we have Keita and VVD or another CB then great but it's too late and means that we struggle this season.

 

Klopp was thick as pig **** last night about it. perhaps he will wise up now.

As i said before the game i had very low expectations. I was pleasantly surprised by our first half performance. Second half was par for course once they got one. our right side was poor enough and it was really a chance for a few kids to play. grujic wasn't bad but not great and his positions on the pitch were imo poor. Solanke showed decent touches but was poor in box. woodburn got his 45mins for the year... thats sort of thing. ward showed he wasn't useless. gomez was impressive on the ball as a CB and showed pace. positionally suspect but playing with klavan he's got no hand on his shoulder to help a young boy.

After that is was a variety of senior players filling in but it was coutinho showing why klopp NEEDS him.

 

Yep - my worry is that we miss out on top 4 next season and we can’t get the players we need. We really should have capitalised on our CL status this summer.

But I’m still confident- it’s early on the season - we’re creating chances, and with the exception of City, we should have won the games. it will go our way soon enough.

Klopp is building for the future - we’re getting a top class CM next season and no don’t that a CB is on the list. Let’s hope we can add more players before we sell (Coutinho and Can are likely to go).

 

Building for the future my foot when we cannot address glaring problems in defence.

 

Yep I agree that he should be quicker and more ruthless. He should have addressed this by now and whilst he desperately wants VVD, we should have at least got a decent option instead and then pursue VVD next year.

The very least he could have done is made up with Sakho and used him. That would have been an instant improvement our defence but Klopp is being stubborn especially considering how quickly he reintegrated Coutinho.

 

Put it this way. We won't be favourites for top 4 this year.

Man City 1/20
Man Utd 1/8
Chelsea 1/3
Tottenham 4/5
Liverpool 1
Arsenal 6/4

We are already 5th favourites with arsenal behind us. That says the public are back spurs more than us marginally right now. I think this aligns with the early money for the title. City to win, Utd to be very close behind if not right there. Chelsea to be clear i 3rd and a dog fight for 4th.

as it stands I'd take a dogfight with spurs with 5 games to go right now.

As i said on the other thread if we get coutinho going the side will be transformed. but we know whats coming next May so we need to make the most of this now. we also play wshit without mane so really it is down to us keep our main men fit and playing.

to that end i am not in the least bit sorry we are now out of league cup. I know others are but i think we need the time off.

 

I know there is nothing we can do now and there is no point crying over spilt milk. But there is something to be said for having a longish run in the cup. Can we learn thelessons for the FA cup? If we wanted to give our younger players a run in the cups, surely (it is obvious) we need to stay in them. A run even if we don't win it in the end, gives not only match fitness and experience to the youngsters and reserves but also breeds confidence. As we said earlier, it becomes a habit.

I can understand why Klopp said he was sick and angry because perhaps he can see the same problems as last season arising.

 

In the end what would you want more?

CL last 16 or this league cup? Remembering 2 SF in January post Christmas period, likley to see city and utd in semis as well... then add in the fact that if we **** the CL up we go to europa as well.

I would rather get get to CL last 16. get a decent side out in FA cup 3rd round and have a couple weeks of one game a week in january to get our team right for the run in. We CANNOT AFFORD 2 points out of 12 in the league like we did last year.

We just don't have the squad for this. its a spurs attitude I know but the moment that cup draw was made I knew we were out. If we'd played v a champ side or even a league one side last night they might have wanted it more than Leicester showed but who knows. the draw determined we were right up against it.

I am personally balancing CL, League and january fixtures up against this loss. but BELIEVE ME IF WE REST PLAYER IN FA CUP I WILL BE REALLY ANGRY. AXE ANGRY.

 

It is really simple tbh but most Liverpool fans aren't willing to accept it...

We aren't that good! We used to be a good side but it's 11yrs since we won anything of note.

Sure we've had some top players in that time but, ignoring the two local legends, how many have we had at one time? Since Alonso and Mascherano left, we've only ever had one star; Torres then Suarez. We haven't got any atm imo... Coutinho, Mane, etc aren't at the same level.

Also, I hear people questioning Klopp but I'd ask the question; who else can we get that is better? IMO, we are already punching above our weight having Jurgen!

#realitycheck

 

No offence but Coutinho and mane are at that level where they are just below world class (and there aren't really that many world class players around).

The rest of the side is about creating a sum better than their parts.

Coutinho and Mane would walk into any side in the Prem League

Then you have some players who are midding solid players who fluctuate on form but are solid players - Firmino, Salah, Can, Winja, Matip, Clyne, Lallana.

 

What is all this crap about a LC run getting in the way of other competitions? No it ****ing isn't. We had Matip, Can, TAA. Moreno, Milner, Lovren, Migs, Studge, Salah and Mane rested last night. The team we put out, with the greatest respect to Leicester, should have been three up by half time. This is like the argument about the Europy league stages being a chore - is it ****: bar one or two games, you can play a second string and then put the best side out in the last couple of games if you're struggling.

Nothing wrong with the side last night, and even Klavan had their two big forwards completely in his pocket until Ozaki came on . We were just unbelievably inept in front of goal (as with Palace and Burnley), and no matter what side we put out we just cannot seem to keep a clean sheet, except against Palace (well who hasn't?), and Arsenal (dire). Our defence is only one third of the problem, imo. Hendo and Windy broke up several of our own breaks last night (especially Windy) to turn backwards and pass to our defenders, giving Leicester time to get back. And our forwards - dreadful.

But I'll tell you this - there's NO positives about going out at this stage when kids like Woodburn, Gomez and Solanke desperately need these games to flourish. We're kidding ourselves (again) if we think otherwise.

 

Why is this a choice? Are we more or less likely to get a result on Saturday because of last night's loss? I'd say less, myself.

 

Imo it's not so much a choice as an inevitable implosion

Look at the fixtures. If we stayed in we would more or less play 2 games a week right up to Christmas and inevitably burn out.

Now there's a couple weeks with no midweek game. Not a lot but it will help when the reality is klopp must imo play coutinho, mane, salah and firmino every game. He can rotate the rest all he wants but those 4 separate us from the mid table.

 

Torres and Suarez (Alonso and Mascherano too) could get into any team in the world at the time they left us, not just the PL.

Coutinho and Mane are great for us but I think they're being overhyped atm

Salah certainly is, a few taps in doesn't make him a star player. Ignoring tap ins, he's scored one in about 27 chances!

 

I do agree about playing those 4 every game. Where I do disagree is you saying rotate the rest all he wants.

We need a back 4 and stick with it. I appreciate most of them are ****e, but the more you chop and change they won't get any understanding of playing together.

 

To be fair I don't think an extra 3 or so league cup games would make a huge difference in these players' development.

 

I understand and accept the point. They are ****e but playing together does help. I mean taa might learn a few things that way.