An opposing view.

[throwoff]

There is a lot of anger on here, and in fairness on most Gills boards right now about the ST situation and the way the ground was run on Saturday.

I do not have an ST this year but go to games with two ST holders. My choice not to buy had ntohing to do with the pricing or the policy, my wife had a baby 2 months back and I know there will be several games I cannot attend so I felt it best to buy single tickets, also I have a group of friends who sit in a completely different part of the ground so it will be nice to sit over with them from time to time.

Onto my point.

There is a hell of a lot of over-reaction coming from some people who are usually very level headed. Lets look at pure facts here -

• Gillingham FC are a business, I know so many of you don't like to admit it but that is the truth
• We are a business now in the black
• We are a business with plans for expansion into a new ground and a chairman who is aiming for Championship football

The club enforcing an ID policy on tickets really is not the big deal some people are making out, the photo could be taken for free if you went to the ground so any arguements about cost are invalid.

If you are a member of a nightclub or a snooker club the cards almost ALWAYS carry photographs, this is not a way of accusing people of trying to fiddle it but a security measure to ensure lost or stolen cards cannot be used by others, it also stops fakes being made by people, like it or not people do exist who would attempt such stupidity, anyone who thinks all Gills fans are honest, good people is a fool, look at the tosser who attacked the keeper last season, idiots will try things to get round the rules.

The £5 swap fee has ALWAYS existed in the rules, go back and read the rules from a ticket from years ago as I have, it is stated to let another person use it you must pay a fee, it was unenforceable before but it was a rule. The idea this is some new scheme is totally false.

We had 3 pitch intrusion problems last year, of course banning orders can be enforced but without photographs how do the turnstyle operators know who these people are? Most of them don't, the photo scheme stops banned individuals ignoring their banning order and coming into the ground on season tickets bought by other people, again this is a GOOD thing.

What this all boils down to is that some people seem to need to have something to fight against, the club making money and protecting it's interests is a good thing, it keeps us afloat, it keeps morons away.

Look at Pompey, Coventry etc, do we really want to be the next, I sure as hell do not, having a photo in the book and paying a pittance to let someone else use the ticket is no problem, people are making it a problem. Scally is not going to change his ways because a few people moan or write to him, not when he has a more profitable and secure business.

 

[brb]

I have just exchanged my son's seat for the game on the 31st August against Bristol City...so do you think this is fair...

I have had to telephone the club
I have had to pay a £5 Fee
I have had to use an ST incentive of a Friends for a Fiver voucher, which was originally worth a £15 saving to me
I have already paid preseason £15 for my ST stub (the value of £350/23)
I have to collect the ticket from the ground, there is no other method of getting the ticket to me, I do not live near the ground, they require the stub out of my book

So that is phone calls, fees (ST £15, Exchange fee £5...so total is already Match Ticket price, now add to that a loss of a friends for a fiver voucher value £15 and ID card, only allowed to use one turnstile) and the inconvenience of collecting it from the ground...so sorry the purpose of my ST is what precisely?


ps. was there evidence or reports that the pitch invasions mentioned were via ST's, can you clarify please?

 

[grumpygit]

"•Gillingham FC are a business, I know so many of you don't like to admit it but that is the truth"

If you ran a business that had sold over 3000 ST, would you have just 1 turnstile open for those (allowing for the delay all the checks cause) and all the rest for the single walk through match tickets.

Not very business like, not a very good argument.

And why have you started a new thread when you could have continued the discussion on the old one.

And why am I so grumpy.

 

[The Gills PegLeg]

I am a Non-ST, I have already made my opinions clear on the other thread. However segregating Season-ticket holders to just one turnstile is downright wrong. Just because they have books with their tickets in, why do they have to queue up for longer, especially as these supporters vacate Priestfield more than anyone (sometimes more than the players). That issue does need to be sorted out, just train the turnstile people to identify what is a season ticket holder and look at their ID cards, lets face it most bouncers aren't the brightest bunch but they do it for a living.

 

[throwoff]

The goalkeeper attacker was 100% a ST holder, my niece knows the boy and showed me his Facebook profile with him holding his ST.

BRB you know full well the purpose of YOUR season ticket (Your being the important word) is that it allows YOU entry to each league game to sit in the seat YOU have chosen, not to allow you to give it to others as you see fit. That has been in the rules and regs for years, is in the rules and regs at every single football league ground and is a completely normal thing.

You are getting upset about them enforcing a rule that has always existed, it is you who has been breaking it!

In regards to the poor management on Sat it was the first game, almost certainly will see more turnstyles for ST holders only moving forward, any new system will have teething problems.

 

[alwaysright]

throwoff ( no offence - but )

GFC is a business - correct. Enterprise can ( should ) be rewarded - but not greed / penny pinching.
I am not sure how much expansion of the business can be achieved from the 'penny pinching' of the 'extra' costs to which STH are being subjected for the exchange of (fully paid up) tickets. I am not sure if the current business plan is working. By my reckoning there were 4000 missing Gills fans on Saturday - compared to their numbers at the last home game last season.
The Club has not enforced ID of any fan in the past. If the turnstile operatives had done their job properly - they would have challenged any suspected abuse - for the fairness of ALL fans ( regardless of their STH / non-STH status. )
Fake / Stolen ID cards in no justifiable argument. I would defy ANY season ticket holder to be unable to prove their identity if somebody tried to gain entry to their seat !
As for pitch 'intruders' - do we know that these were STH ? - or that any future criminal will only come from the community of STH ! - None coming from the ranks of non-STH or even AWAY fans ! ---- those STH are a bad lot !
I suppose you could say that ALL attendees may need to provide identification ! - what, including AWAY fans ?---- that won't produce ANY displeasure will it ?
I am all for the Club fighting to protect its' interests - but surely STH have the same right to fight & challenge the unfair constraints being placed ONLY on them ?
I believe that the position at Portsmouth & ( especially ) Coventry is far removed from the nonsense to which our STH are being subjected, and cannot be co-related. ( Coventry's -10 points relates to the liquidation status of a business connected to the football club )
You are probably right in stating that Mr.Scally will not change his ways - he is arrogant enough to dig in his heels - but it might be a recipe for business suicide if he alienates his most loyal customers.
There might only be a few STH voicing their displeasure - although THAT number is significant and fairly vocal. I suspect that the great majority of them are too apathetic to complain.
I would challenge your claim that the Club will be more profitable for their current treatment of STH.... surely you have read the suggestions of STH who have stated that they will
1. Not renew their ticket next season. 2. Who recognise that ( if their family hold more than one season ticket ) it will be cheaper not to renew a 2nd season ticket............. trust me, Mr.Scally will have to resort to giving more deals and throwing away many more thousands of tickets to try to raise attendances - making it EVEN less economical to buy more than one season ticket.
3. STH stating their intention to withold from spending on ancillary products connected to the Club.
Question --- I'm not sure how giving away 5000 tickets for 2 games constitues as 'good business' - it certainly didn't encourage the 'missing' 4000 Gills fans on Saturday.

Like I said - no 'personal' offence -but just some of 'our' view of things.

 

[throwoff]

throwoff ( no offence - but )

GFC is a business - correct. Enterprise can ( should ) be rewarded - but not greed / penny pinching.

I am not sure how much expansion of the business can be achieved from the 'penny pinching' of the 'extra' costs to which STH are being subjected for the exchange of (fully paid up) tickets. I am not sure if the current business plan is working. By my reckoning there were 4000 missing Gills fans on Saturday - compared to their numbers at the last home game last season.

The idea this drop in numbers is to do with ST regs is nonsense, it is glory hunters who wanted to see us win the league that resulted in those big crowds, not 'core supporters'

The Club has not enforced ID of any fan in the past. If the turnstile operatives had done their job properly - they would have challenged any suspected abuse - for the fairness of ALL fans ( regardless of their STH / non-STH status. )

No way for the operaters to do it before, only with photo ID is it possible.

Fake / Stolen ID cards in no justifiable argument. I would defy ANY season ticket holder to be unable to prove their identity if somebody tried to gain entry to their seat !

As for pitch 'intruders' - do we know that these were STH ? - or that any future criminal will only come from the community of STH ! - None coming from the ranks of non-STH or even AWAY fans ! ---- those STH are a bad lot !

Refer to my previous post, 100% the kid who attacked the keeper WAS a STH

I suppose you could say that ALL attendees may need to provide identification ! - what, including AWAY fans ?---- that won't produce ANY displeasure will it ?

Away clubs already report a list of banned fans that we then cross reference with our sales and the local police

I am all for the Club fighting to protect its' interests - but surely STH have the same right to fight & challenge the unfair constraints being placed ONLY on them ?

There is nothing 'unfair' about being asked to show a photo, the only issue comes with a STH attempts to break the rules.

I believe that the position at Portsmouth & ( especially ) Coventry is far removed from the nonsense to which our STH are being subjected, and cannot be co-related. ( Coventry's -10 points relates to the liquidation status of a business connected to the football club )

My point is when the business does not make profit, the team suffers

You are probably right in stating that Mr.Scally will not change his ways - he is arrogant enough to dig in his heels - but it might be a recipe for business suicide if he alienates his most loyal customers.
There might only be a few STH voicing their displeasure - although THAT number is significant and fairly vocal. I suspect that the great majority of them are too apathetic to complain.
I would challenge your claim that the Club will be more profitable for their current treatment of STH.... surely you have read the suggestions of STH who have stated that they will
1. Not renew their ticket next season. 2. Who recognise that ( if their family hold more than one season ticket ) it will be cheaper not to renew a 2nd season ticket............. trust me, Mr.Scally will have to resort to giving more deals and throwing away many more thousands of tickets to try to raise attendances - making it EVEN less economical to buy more than one season ticket.
3. STH stating their intention to withold from spending on ancillary products connected to the Club.

Any STH genuinely wanting to stop coming to games because they have a photo of them in the book is a fool, again the only people with right to complain are those who intended to break a rule that has always existed.

Question --- I'm not sure how giving away 5000 tickets for 2 games constitues as 'good business' - it certainly didn't encourage the 'missing' 4000 Gills fans on Saturday.

Again, those 4000 were the same tossers whose faces you had never seen before but appeared in the previously empty seats around us when it became clear the title was ours. Glory hunters. If the average gate remains steady (around 5-6k) this season filling the ground with free tickets who then buy drinks and programmes is a net gain, those seats would be empty regardless of a photograph

Like I said - no 'personal' offence -but just some of 'our' view of things.

Replies in red!

 

[alwaysright]

throwoff - my reply to your 'red' replies.
The drop in attendance probably had nothing to do with STH. - I expect that 99.?% of them were present. However it is my fear that attendances will suffer if constraints ( only against STH ) will deter them from renewing in future - as plenty have threatened.

Turnstile operatives have ALWAYS had the RIGHT to challenge the suspected abuse of ANY ticket and to deny entry accordingly. However a STH is less likely to cause problems compared with a 'casual' attendee - the matter relating to the idiot attacking the goalkeeper - if he is a STH, then the exception proves the rule... as probably perfectly illustrated by the number of Coventry fans who invaded the pitch at Crawley on Saturday - I don't think they were STH of Crawley !
Information sharing exists between police forces - not disputed - but I'm not sure how that relates to all the arguments of STH regarding the discriminatory measures against ONLY them. iF I was 'banned' - I am sure that it wouldn't be too difficult to get somebody (anyone) to buy me a 'faceless' matchday ticket.
I do not actually think it unfair of the need for ANYONE to produce I.D. - but why do you infer that ONLY STH will break the rules ?
When businesses do not make a profit there may be many factors involved - but the business WILL suffer more if a significant number / its' most 'financially committed' customers are subject to discrimination. ( all measures - not just I.D. ) Personally I have NO problem with I.D. or photograghs. I have nothing to hide - as I am sure this principle applies to practically 100% of other STH - BUT, as I say - it's not ALL about I.D. If I were to turn your 'argument' on this point on its' head - I would ask you why have STH not taken the 'opportunity' thus far, to cause trouble / break the rules - when their identity has not been as easy to establish ?- answer - they are not trouble makers ( along with practically all non- STH ) - Like I say - it's not ALL about I.D. - this just happens to be one of the methods of discrimination against ONLY the STH of the Club.
You describe the missing 4000 as " tossers " - regardless of my mischievious nature - I would not be so unkind against ANY fan of GFC regardless of the type of ticket they hold. Their absence is probably a matter of finance - as well as the sprinkling of those you describe as ' Glory hunters.'
With regards to filling up the ground with free ticket holders who you suggest will go on to make ancillary purchases - How is THAT fair towards STH who are being ' penny pinched ' for more money & expense to exchange an already fully paid up ticket, to allow a guest to use their ticket - and who will also go on to make the same ancillary purchases -
Like I say the protest is NOT just about I.D. All forms of discrimination should be taken in conjunction with each other - the same forms that only apply to STH -that is why I (we ) call it discrimination.

 

[AshfordGill]

Replies in red!

I note that you cleverly made your replies so that they could not be quoted, I was one of the missing 4000 (as was my 12 year old son), I don't appreciate being called a tosser, I had a season ticket for 20 seasons until being made redundant, now I work too many weekends to make a season ticket viable, but this comment alone in your reply makes your argument redundant as far as I am concerned, nothing wrong with glory hunters either how else did we take 50,000 to Wembley if they only come a couple of times a season they are all welcome in my eyes.

 

[throwoff]

How does being made redundent, working weekends and not being able to get a ticket make you a glory hunter?

If you sat on your arse and watched your 'main team' in the Premiership as so many people do only coming down to Gills when we are winning and there is no decent game on sky you are a glory hunter. How people can give up the smell of the grass and the thrill of live games for sitting on the sofa watching them on the tele is beyond me.

Last game of last season we almost got into a fight with a 'fan' we had never seen before who deemed it a good idea to stand in the walkway blocking 10+ season ticket and regulars views while he scratched his arse for several minutes, when politely asked to move out the way he replied with some very choice language (words I would not utter at football or elsewhere) the majority of these people are not supporters, there is a huge difference between the tossers and the casual fans, I have no problem with people being casual and attending when they can, turning out just because you want to tell everyone at work how 'WE WON THE LEAGUE' after watching one match every few years makes you a moron.

Finding offense in nothing whatsoever seems to be a Gills fan speciality nowadays.

 

[AshfordGill]

How does being made redundent, working weekends and not being able to get a ticket make you a glory hunter?

If you sat on your arse and watched your 'main team' in the Premiership as so many people do only coming down to Gills when we are winning and there is no decent game on sky you are a glory hunter. How people can give up the smell of the grass and the thrill of live games for sitting on the sofa watching them on the tele is beyond me.

Last game of last season we almost got into a fight with a 'fan' we had never seen before who deemed it a good idea to stand in the walkway blocking 10+ season ticket and regulars views while he scratched his arse for several minutes, when politely asked to move out the way he replied with some very choice language (words I would not utter at football or elsewhere) the majority of these people are not supporters, there is a huge difference between the tossers and the casual fans, I have no problem with people being casual and attending when they can, turning out just because you want to tell everyone at work how 'WE WON THE LEAGUE' after watching one match every few years makes you a moron.

Finding offense in nothing whatsoever seems to be a Gills fan speciality nowadays.

I didn't say I was a glory hunter (not that I have problem with them), I said that I don't consider myself to be a 'tosser' and this is the part of your comment I do find offensive, but when you explain your experience with the 'supporter' in question I can see why you were upset, but please don't tar all of us that cant come every week with the same brush, and just for confirmation I don't have sky and certainly agree with your comments about swapping the joy of real live football with that of stagnant televised prima donnas on the TV

 

[alwaysright]

throwoff
Can I just say that I admire the 'passionate' tone of your posts - I am sure that you can see that I too am passionate when I get my teeth stuck into a matter ( my weakness is principles )
In your post you did NOT distinguish ANY of the 'missing 4000' from those who were not (in your words, tossers).
I too do not have the highest opinion of 'mere' armchair 'fans' - but sometimes there can be good reason ( usually financial ) as to why they do not attend ' live ' matches. Whilst I (mainly) share your sentiments about fans who come out of the woodwork when there is a hint of glory - we should not decry them if they support the Gills on the day, so I have no real problem with anyone wanting to see the Gills.
I feel that you have been a little uncharitable towards AshfordGill ( with whom I have not always agreed / vice versa ) - You have made assumptions about how & when he may sit on his backside - without qualification - even IF your assumptions were to be correct ( I don't know .)
I know that I am financially privileged to be able to afford to attend ALL games -not just Home matches. I sympathise with those who would wish to be able to do so - but cannot afford the expense. My main argument in the STH debacle has been the disparity against ONLY season ticket holders. I have talked about discrimination.
I have been around the block enough times to know that, unfortunately, when it comes to understanding discrimination, unless a person is the subject to that unfairness, then it is often too difficult to appreciate its' effects on a personal basis. Some non-STH have expressed some empathy - which is appreciated - but cannot be fully felt until experienced.

 

[throwoff]

I didn't say I was a glory hunter (not that I have problem with them), I said that I don't consider myself to be a 'tosser' and this is the part of your comment I do find offensive, but when you explain your experience with the 'supporter' in question I can see why you were upset, but please don't tar all of us that cant come every week with the same brush, and just for confirmation I don't have sky and certainly agree with your comments about swapping the joy of real live football with that of stagnant televised prima donnas on the TV

I dont tar you all at all mate.

You are what I call a casual supporter (no different from me) you are not casual in your love for Gills at all but casual in that you cant make every game or have a ST (same as me!)

I love Not606, I respect everyone on here but this anger at Scally is misplaced.

Rules for right or wrong exist. It is our job to support the team and not let such silly things cloud that.

Heartfelt apologies if I did offend you. There is a huge step from casual to glory hunting.

 

[brb]

I think the solution is quite simple for me. Scally runs a business, that business will be minus one multiple ST Holder next season, its clearly not beneficial to my pocket. If losing ST Holders is good business than fine. To transfer a ticket has cost me the total sum £20 cash, the SAME price as a match day ticket holder who can transfer for free. In the process this ST Holder has also lost a £15 incentive voucher...total overall cost lost £35. If people cannot see this argument so be it.

 

[Damo666]

Simple solution; don't buy a season ticket. I 100% agree with the opening post. If you don't like completely fair rules, then don't buy it. We don't need to hear continuously how you won't buy it next year or how you think we're being screwed over....just put up with it quietly for one year, let us all discuss the Gills in piece and lodge your protest next season by not purchasing it.

If your cause is as widely supported and valid as you all think, it'll have an effect and Scally will back down. If he doesn't, then we all know it's a minority overreacting.

 

[brb]

Simple solution; don't buy a season ticket. I 100% agree with the opening post. If you don't like completely fair rules, then don't buy it. We don't need to hear continuously how you won't buy it next year or how you think we're being screwed over....just put up with it quietly for one year, let us all discuss the Gills in piece and lodge your protest next season by not purchasing it.

If your cause is as widely supported and valid as you all think, it'll have an effect and Scally will back down. If he doesn't, then we all know it's a minority overreacting.

Dammo a very fair view. I just wish to debate you on something though...

Back on the 21st June, myself and alwaysright both thanked you for an informative post regarding ST's, which at the time put both of our minds at rest when you said this...

I gave them a call before purchasing back in May; I raised my concern that my girlfriend might not make the Tuesday night games which might not make the purchase cost effective. I was told that, whilst it's not really club policy, they would print a ticket for the seat if I rang in in advance.

I personally wouldn't risk trying to get through the gate. Ring up in advance and they may print you a ticket for that seat to provide to someone who you wish to take your place.

I stated at the time it offers an all round solution.

However, it appears you were not aware of two additional aspects or did you just forget to include them in your post...you will need to pay £5 and you will need to hand over one of your friend for a fiver voucher at the same time. You even stated otherwise it would not make the purchase cost effective!

So I assume you went ahead with your purchase based on what you was informed by the club, despite them not mentioning the two aspects I now query?

 

[HOADIE_BOI]

Looks like Scally has had a rethink on how we can enter the ground.

http://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/news/article/message-to-season-ticket-holders-971952.aspx

 

[brb]

Looks like Scally has had a rethink on how we can enter the ground.

http://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/news/article/message-to-season-ticket-holders-971952.aspx

You can't knock an apology - fair play...

 

[Damo666]

Dammo a very fair view. I just wish to debate you on something though...

Back on the 21st June, myself and alwaysright both thanked you for an informative post regarding ST's, which at the time put both of our minds at rest when you said this...



I stated at the time it offers an all round solution.

However, it appears you were not aware of two additional aspects or did you just forget to include them in your post...you will need to pay £5 and you will need to hand over one of your friend for a fiver voucher at the same time. You even stated otherwise it would not make the purchase cost effective!

So I assume you went ahead with your purchase based on what you was informed by the club, despite them not mentioning the two aspects I now query?

I took this up after the announcement with the club and Paulo; I was very disappointed that I had been told this and it hadn't been the case. Sadly, someone had spoken out above their pay grade and guessed.

I got an apology which I was happy with. If my girlfriend has to miss Tuesday night games, we will have to use the vouchers and I will take the money it costs (inc. admin fee) from the person who uses it....that will be a nice discount for them off of the pre match price as it is at £10.

If we end up making a loss on our tickets then, from a financial stand point, we may opt out of renewing next year naturally. I will work it all out once the year is all said and done!

As it stand I should only miss the one game. Hopefully it stays that way.

 

[brb]

I took this up after the announcement with the club and Paulo; I was very disappointed that I had been told this and it hadn't been the case. Sadly, someone had spoken out above their pay grade and guessed.

I got an apology which I was happy with. If my girlfriend has to miss Tuesday night games, we will have to use the vouchers and I will take the money it costs (inc. admin fee) from the person who uses it....that will be a nice discount for them off of the pre match price as it is at £10.

If we end up making a loss on our tickets then, from a financial stand point, we may opt out of renewing next year naturally. I will work it all out once the year is all said and done!

As it stand I should only miss the one game. Hopefully it stays that way.

Ok. Thanks Dammo.