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An example of big club mentality in the media

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by ncfcwonky, May 9, 2012.

  1. ncfcwonky

    ncfcwonky New Member

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    Henry Winter did a list of who he would pick for the euros next summer. He hasn't picked Holt which is perhaps understandable. But, looking at the 'keepers he's picked Hart and Foster, which, again, is understandable. But for his third choice is Butland, a 19 year old who is uncapped and plays for Birmingham. I respect Henry Winter as one of the top footballing journalists but what is going on in his head?
     
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  2. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

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    foster is retired, unless roy can persuade him this is very odd. Ruddy has a better chance than Holt in my opinion of making the squad.

    i agree with taking one of the U21 keepers for the experience, be it Butland or Stockdale.
     
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  3. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    With Olympic football this summer too though, why not let them play in that? Travelling to the Euros will only give them experience of travelling, they won't get time on the pitch. At the olympics theres at least a chance they'd play.
     
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  4. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

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    it gives them experience with the senior squad
     
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  5. Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed

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    i actually know henry winter and believe me when i say, he definitely has a blind spot for norwich!
     
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  6. ncfcwonky

    ncfcwonky New Member

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    As has been said many times though, so do the rest of the national media!

    Henry Winter, in my opinion, is still a good journalist. But it is irritating how little it took for him to say Carroll should go to the Euros and how much Holt has to do for people to be unsure about him.
     
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  7. Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed

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    he is a good journalist but like you say, he and many others are looking too keenly for the big name players to fill their column inches. what i've never quite understood is, with holt's background, surely HE getting selected would be a monumental story for the press to cover - however, it is more to do with norwich's location and image than anything else. they assume people aren't interested in their view of 'little 'ol norwich'.
     
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  8. ncfcwonky

    ncfcwonky New Member

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    There is a huge article in the same paper about Carroll today. I find it odd that after a generally poor season and only two good games he should receive the level of praise that he has had, while Holt has quietly been performing wonders, as well as Ruddy, and neither are even given a moments thought.

    Henry Winter says on his twitter that he picked Butland because the third choice 'keeper basically never plays and it would be good experience for Butland.
     
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  9. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

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    andy carroll will love all the cheap booze in Ulkraine!
     
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  10. Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed

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    i don't agree with butland going as number three although i can see the logic - but ruddy is surely number two ahead of the others!
     
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  11. ncfcwonky

    ncfcwonky New Member

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    I thought that but I fear Foster may be second choice, if he goes, due to his and Hodgson's West Brom links.
     
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  12. Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed

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    but if thats the case, you wouldn't take a kid, you'd taker ruddy as three. he's only 25. if ruddy doesn't get called up i think serious questions need to be asked because he has easily been good enough for inclusion. at least with holt there is logical reasons for and against - with ruddy there is no logical reason for him not to go!!
     
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  13. canary-dave

    canary-dave Well-Known Member

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    Foster has told RH that he will NOT come out of retirement!
     
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  14. ncfcwonky

    ncfcwonky New Member

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    Good news for Ruddy! <ok>

    I remember Foster's excuse for retirement was that he wanted to extend his club career. I can fully understand that for an outfield player but to me that doesn't make sense for 'keepers as all they tend to do is stand there for 90 minutes and occasionally make a save.
     
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  15. redruthyella

    redruthyella Active Member

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    Nobody has mentioned Fraser Forster at all as a possible callup. While Ruddy must at least 2nd choice (in our opinions), maybe Forster ought to come into the reckoning.
    Its nonsense for Winter to choose Butland. You might as well say Jed Steer.
     
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  16. Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed

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    playing in scotland nowadays is pretty much equal to playing for norwich in terms of awareness from the media and the england set up <ok>

    as for butland, he is extremely promising but he's been playing at league two level. big future, yes, but i do think it would be barking mad if he got called up ahead of ruddy or even stockdale, who i think is overrated but promising all the same. one thing though, if frankie bloody fielding gets the nod we may as well all give up!
     
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  17. Tony_Munky_Canary

    Tony_Munky_Canary Well-Known Member

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    Yes he scored a goal in the cup final last week, but why has more not been made of the ABSOLUTE SITTER he missed from about three yards with his head which he tried to claim went over the line? I'd have buried that never mind about Grant Holt!
     
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  18. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    What you are calling "the English" way sounds to me more like "the Man Utd way" Superman. To me, the "English" way is the antithesis of any system which "focuses" on defending. The English way can be summed up in two dicta: "The best form of defence is attack" and "Don't worry about losing goals, games are won by scoring more goals than the opposition". If both teams play the English way, you have an open, high tempo, end to end, pulsating game, littered with mistakes, but with commentators, spectators and the tv audience beside themselves with excitement. Unfortunately, only England (or other home nations) ever play "the English way", and while it can bring you the odd good result, it doesn't win tournaments (or anything else for that matter). Think Kevin Keegan here.

    As for "the Barcelona way", the only team in England to play anything remotely resembling it is/was Arsenal. It requires players capable of keeping possession high up the pitch, using short, sharp passing and constant interchange of position to mesmerise the opposition until an opening appears. Chelsea (probably with a word or two from Mourinho in di Matteo's ear), neutralised this by basically standing still, holding back, maintaining defensive shape and refusing to be drawn into tackles except when Barca tried to break into the area for a shot. (Even so, in the game at Stamford Bridge, Barca got Fabregas clear in the area twice, and each time he should have scored.) Teams in the Premiership have learned to defend against Arsenal in much that way, and as Arsenal have often demonstrated, the weakness of the system is that, if the defending team can frustrate the attacks, the attacking team's defenders tend to move forward to add even more attacking weight and are vulnerable to quick, direct counter-attacks -- as often demonstrated by Man U against Arsenal, as well as Chelsea against Barca, and the Morison goal on Saturday.

    I'll be interested to see how Hodgson approaches the coming tournament. I rather agree with Beefy on this, adaptability will be key. Unfortunately I don't think many of the current crop of "established" English players ARE adaptable; too many one dimensional players I would say. Which is, IMO, a very good reason for taking Holt. He is intelligent, far more experienced than Carroll, and has demonstrated adaptability. At the moment Carroll is relatively inexperienced, lacks a bit in intelligence (footballing and otherwise, judging from his past behaviour) and has to have the team playing to his strengths irrespective of whether that is what the particular game, or that stage of the tournament, requires.

    I do think Hodgson is the best man we could have in charge, both short term and longer term. The national side are now in capable hands and I'm looking forward to seeing the work in progress. England fans are not fools; they will back Hodgson. Whether the media will show the same good sense I doubt.

    <ok>
     
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  19. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

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    dave - where did you hear or read this? is this new news?
     
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  20. canary-dave

    canary-dave Well-Known Member

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    It's since Roy was appointed, I think it was on BBC website, I didn't copy and paste, I thought everyone would see it!
     
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