Do you accept that the board/management have made serious mistakes by putting players on contracts that make it hard to sell them. By definition this is very poor management in my book. In an ideal world you should never have some deadwood that you cant get rid of. We have an army of them. Nobody can get it right all the time but imo we have got it wrong more than in the past and more than clubs like manure.
The situation has arisen because we've wanted to develop players, rather than buy the finished article. We've needed to keep them on long contracts to avoid losing them on a free (e.g.Flamini) so I can understand where the club have been coming from on that. The downside is that if players don't make the required grade, then you have players who are hard to move on. That's not bad management, that's speculating to accumulate, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't . . that's the gamble you have to take. As for getting it wrong more than Man Utd ? Man Utd buy their top players, they don't develop them. Tell me who they have developed through their ranks who is better than Wilshere, Frimpong, Coquelin or Gibbs ?
Whilst I agree that Arsenal have gone in to develop rather than buy, the high wages that the youngsters are on is ridiculous. 50 or 60k for players of their ages & calibre is too high, and THAT is a policy problem. The club philosophy was parity between members, equality for harmony essentially. That has been shown to not work, and it appears they're now changing their methods to give incentive to move up the scale to the players.
I am going to play devil's advocate here. Considering the length of time Fergie has been at Utd, he hasn't brought many successful home grown players through at all. Giggs, Scholes, the Nevilles, Beckham, Butt, Welbeck ... I'm struggling to think of any that were successful. You have players like Gibson but they haven't done anything of real note as yet, he may have scored a thunderbolt but, I wouldn't say he was successful ... yet. Also you have Chris Eagles but, again, he hasn't done anything of note. Jonny Evans .. ok, he plays regularly for Man U so I will accept him. Who has Wenger brought through who have been a success ? Cole, Wilshere, Gibbs and .......... who ? Thats pathetic. We've bought promising kids, like Merida, Cesc etc but we didn't develop them any more than Man U developed Rooney or Valencia. Both became better players playing for Man U but they developed themselves, much like Man U didn't develop Ronaldo.
You dont give young players 50-60k a week when they are utterly unproven. Fair enough we can now give wilshire a 50-60k a week deal now he proven himself but not people like vela, bendy and the like (denilson was ok because at least he was a regular in the side). SO much can go wrong in a players development. I think wenger and the board got overly worried after the flamini incident and then started tying players to long and lucrative deals. That is and was madness. What worries me is they havent changed direction. The deal for djorrou being a classic example. I have seen many players with fantastic potential who never fulfill it for one reason or another.
Apparently the Djourou deal was triggered automatically by a clause in his previous contract relating to first team appearances. He hit the necessary threshold, activated the clause, and got a new contract. So perhaps the club didn't really want to offer him one.
just noticed this comment, which gave me a lot of reasons for an optimism If "as low as he could" for a manager is top 5 in a situation where the team have lost 3 out of 4 starting midfielders, their best CB and ALL full backs, then he is doing pretty well ) On a serious note I am a bit surprised how fans opinion is changing every 3 or 4 games. We might have easily drawn with Liverpool and Newcastle. In both matches we were quite lucky. Just two lucky goals between "the right man for the job" and "completely lost the plot" ))
Mine's not changed. As sad as it is - I'll agree Wenger should move on. Everybody's time is up eventually.
This is exactly my point about fine margins. After the 0-0 at Bolton, we heard the usual cries of Wenger out. . . but for hitting the post twice it would have been 'Great job Wenger' - and this in my opinion has been why some views on here are just not taken seriously. People are too quick to judge and condemn us as useless and call us ****, when in fact we've never been that far off. The games we have lost this season have been largely down to our own mistakes, which has always meant that it's been in our control to put right, which we now are doing. Some people panic when things don't go right, and call for people to be sacked. Others see the situation for what it is and take a pragmatic approach to the situation. When those around you are losing their heads, it takes a calm mind to see what is actually going on.
Do i detect a touch of sarcasm by the OP. Getting up to 4th place (for now) is hardly cause for celebration. If Chelski and L'pool hadn't imploded we would not be riding so high. Basically Wenger has turned us from title challengers to also rans and if he doesn't make some decent signings this summer, the calls for his head will only increase.
In all seriousness Wenger should have been sacked a long time ago. No other manager would have got away with the shambles - and yes crisis - at the club which was recognised by the most knowledgeable of football experts, including the likes of George Graham and even Arsene himself. The finishing positions are one thing - poor despite some believing that 4th placed finishes are success - but the the biggest problem has been the failure to fix obvious issues. It's the stubbornness shown by Wenger that has upset many fans. The fact we are changing our approach now, after so long when it was obvious we needed to, makes me very happy on the one hand but also even more pissed off at Wenger for sticking to his failed philosophy for so long. That said - if we carry through what looks like significant change in the playing style, wage policy, youth policy, and transfer policy then I believe we will get success again. At that point Wenger will win back my support but for now I remain a detractor.
Agreed. Which is why this summer is huge for us. If wenger ****s it up like last summer (in particular) then he needs to go.
Agreed. I don't think us Gooners have it within ourselves to forgive another shambolic summer. There have been too many false dawns and now the wolves are at the door. Failure to bring in big names and losing RVP will set us on the road to oblivion. Time to take proactive, ambitious action.
Returning to RVP - - I wouldn't be surprised that the Board supports Wenger if RVP doesn't re-sign in the summer. OK - we may well get a bid of say £25m (with Bosman on the horizon) - but I wonder if Wenger and the Board will think 'he must stay'. If he plays well ( and might re-sign during his last year) that could be worth keeping him.
It was the manner of last summer which was such a shambles. Not only did he not strengthen but he drew out 2 transfer sagas which disrupted the whole club. The end result was that we were at the bottom of the league for the first 6-7 games. This is inexcusable. The shambolic summer cost us our season by october. This summer wenger needs to get any sales and buys done before the season starts and preferably before pre season. Look what fergie did last summer. Got his business done and that was it. No surprise they then won their first 5 games of the season whilst we were pissing around trying to get an extra £2m for nasri and Cesc.
I think wenger will decide to keep him irrespective of whether he signs. It will just be whether the board force his hand. At the end of the day rvp isnt on big wages and he is already 28. We can keep him for next year which will probably be one of his best again. Then he can leave after that. With his history of injuries I suspect he will get injured even more as he enters his thirties. Also its not like we need another £25m. We still have money and if keeping rvp means we finish in the top 4 next season then he will pay for imself.
