Why is everything on here has to be turned into a crisis ? Since we have been in the premiership the cost has quadrupled and it will be more expensive every season we are here. We need the right investors just to survive and im sure the clubs solicitors have checked and treble checked these Americans credentials thoroughly. If we want to remain in with a chance of competing in the premiership then as we are a small club with relatively small investment then we definitely need more investors on board. We should be thankful we have been able to attract some big powerful investors to the club and go with the flow instead of thinking its a bad move because we would not last long without them with the way football and players greed is going....
Dai just one question you may be able to answer. How are they investors in the club. The money paid is to go to other share holders and then they will give the club loans. What are they investing in the club please. I am trying not to be negative just trying to work out where the advantage to the club is.
no i understand what your saying......They are obviously here to put money into the club but like the rest of the board members we are not privee to how much they actually spend. what it does do is give us a better chance of players we will be able to afford and everything else to do with running the club. How they make their profit is mostly through buying and selling players at a profit and many other commercial deals....
No pointing at anyone. I think we are probably unable to get loans as we have very few tangible assets (not owning our ground), and the rate might be zero? Just guessing. The only problem would arise if the share price drops. The trust have undertaken 'due diligence' searches and we've heard no problem and it appears he was a good owner of his baseball team. I haven't seen anything about the partner that causes concerns - maybe I'm being overcautious in my thinking after the Petty debacle.
We, the fans are the custodians of the club not some fly by night wanting a quick return. Snippets of information being leaked to the press doesn't indicate that we're likely to be happy at the forthcoming news .
I don't like it one bit. Maybe it's the romantic in me but American fingers in the Prem pie have not always been a good thing. With the new TV deal we wouldn't be short of money would we? Pretty obvious we know what those doing the selling are getting whether deserved or not but I'd like to know what we're getting out of it as a Club. I hope I'm wrong but this not only brings about a dramatic change in identity but could also bring unwanted foreign interference when up to now those overseas elements have been almost sleeping partners, allowing us to get on with it. 'Investors' want a return. Whatever we'll get out of it they'll want it back in spades. That's why I'm very worried over this. Sorry for being a grouch and I really hope this turns out well for us. It could be a pivotal moment in our history one way or another.
There will be a lot of misinformation in this meeting. Allegations that they were involved in the Peregrine Systems fraud. If anyone attends I hope you bring up the fact they were the only two deemed to be unaware, the only two that failed to make money from this fraud (they both actually lost out as their shares value plummeted) and that the vast majority of shares sold (which is being scrutinised) were actually sold before said fraud took place! Additionally there is a smear campaign about receiving a subsidy to build a ballpark, yet that subsidy was advertised to all interested developers and investors. The 'gifts' are common practice in America, the Trust needs reminding that bidding rules in America do not have to abide by UK law. Anyone attending can also expect the issue of the San Diego Padres being brought up, how they sold the team. I can think of only one long term owner in American Sports and that is the Liverpool owners who own Boston Red Sox, all other franchises are bought and sold in quick succession. Over there an eyelid did not bat... excuse the pun. And lastly there is another smear campaign about them selling off shares quickly in ServiceNow, do we really need to remind people that they are investors and not entrepreneurs? They buy shares, they increase revenue and decrease debt where possible, raise the value of the company, then sell for a profit. The meeting exists to assasinate their character, the Trust have been dead against any change in ownership from the very beginning.
Project good post! I came across the Peregrine fraud when I researched John Moores, and to be honest he looks to me to be a 'snake in the grass with a top hat on' and the Trust have good reason not to want this character anywhere near our club, anyway I bookmarked this some time ago which I have dug out for you to check over!...... Link: http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/2002-10-13/just-how-much-did-john-moores-know
Trust Facts and History please log in to view this image The Trust Officially Launched in 2001 There is a lot written on websites about the Swans Trust, what we do and what the facts about us are. Take a look at some of the facts below. Swansea City Supporters Trust currently owns 21% of Swansea City Football Club but if there is further investment in the Club this shareholding will be reduced unless we can raise more money! Swansea City Supporters Trust raised almost £10,000 in 2009/10 financial year to take advantage of a share offer which took the Trust shareholding within the club to 21%. Swansea City Supporters Trust has a share fund which allows members to contribute for when the Trust can buy further shares in the club. In our 10th Anniversary year 2011/12 and Club Centenary Season 2012/13, Membership was free. Swansea City Supporters Trust currently has 1 Executive Director on the board of the football club who is there to represent fans views. The Trust also has an Associate Director on the Board. Here is a brief history of the Swansea City Supporters Trust. A small group of Supporters initially met in Port Talbot, where it was decided that a Public Meeting would be called at the Brangwyn Hall on Saturday 8th July 2001, at which over 150 interested in the idea of a Supporters Trust attended. A follow-up meeting was held on Sunday 22nd July at Manselton/Cwmbwrla Community Centre to agree a Constitution, arrange a bank account and form sub-groups from the 50 plus who attended. John Parkhouse chaired the meeting with Mike Kent taking the Minutes. At this meeting it was reported that Ninth Floor had dismissed Neil McLure as Chairman .on 20th July 2001, this news was greeted with a certain amount of pleasure, bearing in mind the uncertainty surrounding the Club’s future, especially as it was announced that Ninth Floor had no intention of taking Swansea City back into their ownership Further, Ninth Floor had finally cut its losses and sold the club for £1 to the former Commercial Manager Mike Lewis, but Lewis was saddled with a debt of £801,000 which was repayable to Ninth Floor. Lewis was struggling to run the club alone and set about looking for buyers. The lines were now drawn and the meeting determined that we were all fully committed to saving our Club, to become part owners and invest in the Club whatever was right for the Supporters, and that a Supporters Trust could be trusted by the fan base. Dave Boyle was present on behalf of Supporters Direct to outline why we should consider becoming an IPS, which is a not for profit organisation and which could run the Club if necessary. Working Groups were set up from those in attendance and the Working Party would comprise those who signed the Constitution – Richard Lillicrap, Michael Williams, Leigh Dineen and Nigel Hamer. please log in to view this image Swans Trust Membership Flyer A further meeting was arranged for Sunday 5th August when arrangements would be made for the Official Launch of the Trust, which would take place at the Patti Pavilion on Bank Holiday Monday 27th August after the home game against Cheltenham. The launch was extremely successful with over 600 signing up on the day to join what was now a constitutionally set up body ready for an involvement in our football club, in anticipation of the day arriving when Shares became available to purchase in the event of a change of ownership. Membership fees and the auction held raised over £3000. Backing for the Trust came from far and wide with John Toshack, John Hartson, Max Boyce, Gareth Edwards, Rhodri Morgan AM, Martin Caton MP, Kevin Johns, Eurig Wyn MEP, Steve Hamer, Mel Nurse and Mel Charles amongst many pledges of support. A meeting was called in Bristol where MAGS members and London based fans met to discuss financial matters with past Club Chairman Steve Hamer, also present at this meeting were Phil Sumbler, Keith Haynes, Richard Lillicrap, Leigh Dineen, Tony Jenkins, Nigel Hamer and others. The meeting was designed to give a financial picture of a football Club’s affairs and how Supporters could become involved financially in ownership. There were e-mails flying thick and fast from Llanelli to Moscow, Cardiff to Swansea, Gloucester to Kingston-Upon-Thames, between fans who were Accountants, Solicitors, Financial Advisers and Businessmen, all determined to ensure the survival of our Club. As the Supporters Trust was now a full constitutional body we became the nerve centre of information for the way forward.
part two The scenario that we had been anticipating arrived sooner than expected when, in October 2001, Mike Lewis sold the Club to Tony Petty, a Londoner based in Australia, again for £1, but crucially the debt of £801,000 was still due to Ninth Floor and became Petty’s responsibility. A hastily convened gathering of Swans fans, with Richard Lillicrap and Nigel Hamer representing the Trust, took place at Swansea Rugby Club, also present were Martin Morgan, David Bradshaw, Mel Nurse, Gareth Keen, Tony Davies and David Morgan. It was decided at that meeting that we would offer Tony Petty £10,000 to purchase the Club. Tony Davies (Trust), who had previously met Petty, rang him with the offer, which was rejected out of hand. Following further discussions over the next few days it was eventually agreed to make an increased offer to Petty of £50,000, but this again was rejected and we were back to square one. please log in to view this image Richard Lillicrap At the Trust’s first AGM in the Patti Pavilion in November 2001, Chairman John Parkhouse asked supporters to explore and research all appropriate avenues of inquiry with relevance to bringing them into the public domain in the battle against the current owner, and openly offered the newly formed Trust as a vehicle for transferring control of the Club to local people, in the promise that the future of the Club would be secured. Further behind the scenes discussions took place, with Leigh Dineen, being more locally based, taking over from Richard Lillicrap in future meetings. It was evident that there was a reluctance by any one individual to move forward in taking the risk single handedly, which resulted in the Consortium being formed, and the Trust were charged with co-ordinating future meetings with potential investors. At this time we were aware that Ninth Floor were prepared to sell the £801,000 debt for £100,000, and with this in mind a hastily convened meeting was called at the Tudor Court Hotel, where Martin Morgan, George Edwards, Don Keefe, Gwilym Joseph and David Williams, along with Leigh Dineen and Nigel Hamer, met to discuss the possibility of raising the £100,000 to purchase the debt. This debt purchase would have given the Consortium an asset to raise further funds to send Petty on a one way journey back to Australia. However, with time being the absolutely critical factor for the survival of our football club, there was inevitably much going on in the background, and the Group learnt that the Chairman of Ninth Floor, Alan Wix, had met with Mike Lewis and Mel Nurse and agreed on a sale of the debt to Nurse. The Trust then became fully involved in discussions with Mel Nurse’s Solicitor Tim Jones and Insolvency Practioner Gary Stones in helping to provide as much information as possible from various sources, not least the Football Association. Members of the Trust Board were very supportive of Mel Nurse in his Court case against Tony Petty, and many attended Court during the hearing. The Trust arranged a further meeting at Clyne Golf Club, with Martin Morgan, George Edwards, Don Keefe, David Williams, Nigel Hamer and Leigh Dineen present, with a new addition to the meeting being local businessman Huw Jenkins. A follow-up meeting was held at the Oaktree Park Hotel where Martin Burgess, who had recently been removed from office by Petty, became a member of the working party. At this time Gareth Keen and his advisors had rejoined the group, with the meeting attended by Tim Jones, Mel Nurse, David Morgan, and Nigel Hamer and Leigh Dineen representing the Trust, and two other local businessmen, who subsequently withdrew their involvement. Brian Katzen had previously indicated an interest but as nothing further had been heard from him, it was decided that we would move forward without him. However, Martin Burgess was sure that Katzen wished to be involved and contacted him the following day, and he confirmed his interest. At one of these meetings Gareth Keen decided that he would prefer to donate £10,000 to the Supporters Trust in lieu of his involvement, a gesture that was greatly appreciated by the Trust representatives present. please log in to view this image Nigel Hamer (left) hands a cheque to David Morgan The document was produced and was signed by the Trust representatives at that meeting, Leigh Dineen and Nigel Hamer. Also present were Martin Burgess, who had become more involved during the Court case and had brought Brian Katzen to the table, Steve Penny , Mel Nurse, David Morgan and two others who had expressed an interest in becoming involved but decided it wasn’t for them financially. Other investors who had not been a party to all of the meetings but had agreed to become financially involved were OTH Limited (Martin Morgan), Redi Plastics Limited (Huw Jenkins), Five Thirty Ltd (Brian Katzen), and Swansea Jacks Ltd (John van Zweden and David Morgan) – these, together with Mel Nurse, Robert Davies and Olliedom Ltd (Dineen family) comprise the shareholders in the “new” Swansea City FC. The Trust were allowed additional time to obtain their £50,000 investment as the other consortium members were Corporate bodies, there was also agreement that the Trust could have a Director for their investment and also be allowed to invest a further £50,000, which would entitle them to a further seat on the newly formed Board of Directors. The Trust Board agreed that Leigh Dineen would become the Supporter Director, and would form part of a Management team, along with other investors, to run the Club as a Committee. The Supporters Trust were paramount in ensuring that the Consortium became a reality, something which is not universally appreciated by fans and investors alike. The current Club Board and current Shareholders, apart from Leigh Dineen who became our Supporter Director, were not involved at the outset but became involved as the months progressed. We are firmly of the belief that as long as there is a Swansea City Football Club there will be a Supporters Trust, a body that will remain a Shareholder long after other current Shareholders. If you are interested in learning more about the history of the trust and the work we have done over the last 12 years then we recommend that you purchase a copy of “From Graveyard to Ambition: The Official History of the Swansea City Supporters Trust”, which gives an in-depth account of the amazing rise of the trust and the crucial role it still plays to this day for Swansea City football club.
Good posts Dai, I think we get where you coming from............. Also have a read of this on Moores! Link:http://articles.latimes.com/2002/oct/01/business/fi-moores1
Everyone wants to see the club succeed and only time will tell if this investment will pay off. Like others I have concerns, I would feel a lot happier about taking on this investment if the board members, who are to realise massive personal profits from this deal, plough this money back into the club after taking out they're initial £50,000 investment shares. This would mean we would have almost £30 million more going into the clubs coffers on top of the new shareholders loans and investments. This would prevent the chances of these massive profits clouding their judgement on this very important issue. Doubt they will though!!
That link is dated 2002, he was cleared twice after that by the courts of any involvement. There are shareholders who have tried to sue him to the tune of $3 billion, but that shouldn't be surprising as they will want money back that they lost and those who were found responsible were jailed and had their assets stripped. You can't sue a bunch of guys who have no money. The deeper you look the more it becomes apparent that Moores is painted as guilty by association by a few in the stock market who got burned by the inside directors and the corrupt accountancy firm. One thing I would call Moores is a niaive fool, he effectively owned the company and chose to let others run it. Safe to say he hasn't made that mistake again and is now running his companies more like a Warren Buffet by personally keeping an eye on the inside directors and the finances. He had a multibillion dollar company which eventually sold up to HP for less than half a billion, ouch! Ain't he a lucky fella he sold two thirds of shares between 1997 and 2001, that last third would have netted him just a hundred million or so and by our standards that is loads but for an investor he would only have seen a billion or so dollars flushed down the toilet. I'd imagine the only thing that stopped him being Wall Streets poster child for foolish ignorance is the fact World (who sponsored baseball's World Series) collapsed in such catastrophic circumstances just before, which left some other investors who took a backseat approach like him even worse off.
Well you could look at it that way and dismiss him as a naive fool, but what fool falsely projects his company profits for share value gain then sells his share holding from 65% at peek value down to 3% knowing that they are going to collapse because of fraudulent accounting? he and some of his co conspirators gained the most from all this, and I'm certainly not naive enough to think that he knew nothing, he's a crook in my view.................
Also just come across this from Newsnow. http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/...-in-talks-to-purchase-stake-in-swansea-city/? Comments 'Swansea City’s fans should hope he doesn’t get it. He was an awful owner.' (liked by 5) & 'Yes he was. He didn’t know much about baseball to begin with. Thank God he sold the team to the O’Malleys. Baseball is in their blood.'
Why is it that the board that has in the main guided this club to where it is today, are now advocating this American investment, could it be driven by personel greed or simply an error of judgement or possibly they are right.
Even if this deal looks like it will change our club forever it has to happen because we have been run very successfully in fact too successful that we have out grown how much further we can go. For us to have a better chance to stay in the premiership we will have to invest in better quality players and that wont come cheap with the way players have become greedy in what they want to sign for a club. Its gone crazy and out of control and i cant see anyone putting a stop to it, We are lucky as we have little debt to speak of but that cant last without investment and we are a good prospect for investors as they dont come in having to take on a huge debt and that is a huge plus for us and them...These guys are mega rich and will know exactly what is expected from them so im pretty confident that if we want to compete in the premiership in the future then we have no choice and accept the boards decision to bring in fresh investment.....
John Moores & co settled a class action to the tune of $56.3 million, to extricate themselves from litigation arising from their service as incompetent directors? Nice................ Link:http://www.dandodiary.com/2009/07/a...tlement-in-peregrine-systems-securities-suit/
