alonso -- one of the drives of the season ?

St Chris - get off the fence - what do YOU think?

 

Of course we can claim Alonso better than Seb, he has been in the sport 5 years longer and has proved much more in the eyes of fans because he has had the chances.

Both started in slower cars.
Both were double WDC at a young age.
Both have beaten the best at their time. (Schumacher/Kimi-Alonso/Lewis)
Both had their advantages with their WDC cars. (Tyres, aero, reliability etc...)
Both have nearly won the WDC by not having the best car. (Alonso 10 / Vettel 09)
Both have had a hard time with a teammate. (Lewis 07 / Webber 10)
Alonso given a slow car after this and showed great form, Seb hasn't yet but maybe in 2012-??
Alonso jumps into another team and destroys his teammate, Seb has destroyed Webber in the same car, but not a new teamate let alone a new team.

Though Seb has still a lot to prove against Alonso he has shown things he is equal and maybe better at in other areas. You have to remember Alonso was just winning his first world title at Sebastians age "now" and the same questions we are bringing up here, were brought up like this. So I'll reserve judgement until Sebastian has another 6 years to have a FAIR measure against Alonso.

Yeah Alonso is the benchmark in F1, doesn't mean Seb wont create his own benchmark.

 

A few points I would disagree on:
Vettel hardly started in a slower car; the Toro Rosso was slow for less than a season before it was a very good midfield car.
In 2009 the Red Bull was the best car.
Alonso beat Schumacher twice in a car that was about even to the Ferrari. Vettel did a good job last year (although was not my driver of the season) and a very good job this year (where he has to be driver of the season), but both of these WDC wins came while he was driving a car that has had a significant performance advantage over its rivals of Alonso, Button, Hamilton. So depsite Vettel doing a very good job and 100% deserves his titles the only person he has been competing against in about even equipment is Webber and although Vettel can only try and beat who he is given, Webber is no Schumacher.

 

I disagree with the point that the 2005/6 Renault was about even with Ferrari - they were tremendously faster.

 

Maybe in 2005 although he still had Raikkonen to fight as well. But the 2006 Ferrari was certainly a match for the Renault.

 

The Ferrari was a match against the 'legal' Renault that did the 2nd half of the season.

 

Ok, and your documentation or any actual evidence to prove this is where? This is what is annoying... People in disbelief of high quality performance fall back on lies.

 

The mass dampers that were banned half way through the season curatiled the advantage the Renaults held at the start of the season.

 

I don't understand mate, who as illegal and when?

 

Renault were running a suspension system that the FIA deemed illegal part-way through teh season. Up to that point Alonso had won 6 races (Renault 7 in total to Ferrari's 3), including 4 in a row, and had disappeared into a huge championship lead.

After they were banned Renault lost any advantage they had and only got 1 more win to Ferrari's 6.

The declaring of the system illegal was controversial in itself as Renault had allegedly cleared the system with the FIA before the season started so there was some confusion as to why it was suddenly declared illegal.

 

Sorry my bad, yes the 2006 championship was sealed my Ferrari otherwise, even including the reliability issues of the F2006.

 

OMFG, an agreement!!

 

Alonso >>> Vettel. FACT

 

What is this delusion that every car Newey creates is some easy pass to win a WDC. No way was the RB5 the best car in 09, not even close. The Brawn had the DDD from the word go and won how many races early on and thats not including how many failures Seb got that year as well, just enough to lose the WDC.

Even the BBC wrote off Vettel to catch Button as he didn't have the car to match him and yet he still took it to Brazil losing out because of the rain.


When Red Bull caught up and had their run they could never catch Brawn up quick enough because McLaren and Ferrari sorted their act out as well and with the advanatage of the KERS to boot made it almost impossible to overtake them with a Renault engine.

If it was just the car why in the hell were Ferrari trying to tap up Seb before the season even ended in 09 and before signing Alonso. Looked like they approached Seb months before finalizing Alonso.

Why is this talk never bought up about Schumacher and Byrne, Clark and Chapman, Senna and McLaren and Fangio with Mercedes or Alfa. It seems to be the only excuse when with regard to identifying the source to sebs talent, yet nothing is said about the others lol.

He could be driving a soap box and they will still say he is driving a car on tracks, it's laughable.

They say Lewis has it bad with people making opinions about him, but even I would sound stupid to deny his obvious talent with or without the car as all the top 4 drivers have shown in the past.

 

Where has anyone said Vettel is not talented? You rarely win the WDC without the fastest car and Vettel has had the fastest car the last three years and has won the WDC 2/3 times which is pretty damn good. The Red Bull was the best car in 2009 and the reason why Vettel did not win was not to do with reliability or anything (Vettel had 2 DNFs that were not his fault, Button had 1 and won the WDC by over 10 points so it was not the reason why Vettel did not win it), Vettel did not win it because he made too many mistakes that year (which he has now cut out) such as the first lap at Turkey, crashing out in Monaco, Australia, and spinning out at Malaysia.

 

It's just Silver reading something different to everyone else, putting 2+2 together and ending up with 7, then deciding to write about it without any thought to the amazement of everyone who then reads it.

Fairly common occurence these days.

 

I agree he made many mistakes but his performances were cut down compared to Jenson who had no challenge at the start. No Red Bull, no McLaren and no Ferrari were able to keep up since none of them had the DDD which made the brawn the best car in 09 since they won the WCC. Red Bull were behind the likes of Toyota until they got the DDD.

He had many brake and engine problems equal to that of 2010, maybe not DNF ending, but still a hindrance.

It would be like me saying compared to this year that the McLaren is the best car now because they have caught up Red Bull on qualifying pace and are able to beat them both on race day you would still say Red bull was the best car.

And if you read again saintchris you would know I didn't directly quote Mifune so it wasn't aimed at him entirely.

Disagreement with 09 yes, but with regard with the rest, yet again your the one making numbers up trying to sound intelligent behind a computer screen ready with your unlimited knowledge of the world with thanks to a click of a button.

What can you expect eh? Most of you do it...

Yet again it's the majority here saying WDC+WCC= Because of Newey.

Never the other 300+ staff helping him achieve it...

Again it's becoming an easy excuse now to just say red bull are always the fastest car no matter the situation.

 

[Off topic for a bit of fun]

Very well said St.Chris.
Only one minor error in your first sentence (which in fact is almost everything you wrote).

Can you see it?

 

Silver, if you are going to talk about something different to the thread or the conversation that is ongoing, at least spell out that you are going off on a tangent, otherwise it looks like a random rant for no reason.

I know you weren't quoting Mifune as he only responded to your post in the first place!

You generalise far too much. I have made many comments about Newey and his designs on other threads. They were not all complimentary.