Allen questions

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
DirtyFrank

DirtyFrank

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2011
27,265
8,642
113
The Greener Bit
My links are crap so won't bother, both articles too long to copy & paste: if you want to read the two articles in full go to The Liverpool Way and This is Anfield sites. But the questions pondered are these:

1)While Gerrard is still playing:

Assuming that on form,an uninjured Lucas & Gerrard starting, Henderson and Allen will be fighting for one (if Coutinho is used in the front 3 rather than behind two strikers) final midfield spot. Who should it be: a steadily improving Hendo or a seemingly recovered Allen? Or is there room for both in different types of games? Who suits the link between the two guaranteed starters better?

2)A post Gerrard era:

A future pondering is the other article. Given the style of play BR would like us to play and given that he'll have his team (player wise) in place by the time this happens: is Allen, in fact Gerrards replacement? Direct comparisons in quality aside is Allen supposed to be our Xavi role wise? Assuming its in 4 years, Lucas will be 29 so we'll assume still holding the defensive role so who would bring the best out of that third spot: can it be Henderson or do we need a different style of midfielder altogether?
 
Ever Banega. Some of the bite that Mascher had and the placement of passes that Alonso had ( not as good but has good vision).
 
1.
In my opinion, Coutinho should be the third midfielder as that's the role he's looked best in. If not him, then Hendo as he balances the team better and offers far more.

2.
Hendo should again be prefered. Even if Rodgers wants us to play similar to Barca and Allen as his Xavi, it's not always effective. Barca lose when they can't change it up. Gerrard's role atm mixes things up perfectly - same with having Sturridge up top instead of a false 9. Hendo has shown he can play some brilliant direct passing sometimes and I see him better suited to taking over in a few years.

Allen is average and doesn't fit our team, unless Rodgers wants us to be predictable, slow, uninventive attacking and useless if a team parks the bus.
 
1) If Coutinho plays AM, Hendo can play on.the right like he did last year. Not saying he will but still, he could.
 
On one, I agree with TGOA, I like Coutinho in there but not sure it works as well with the 3 ahead of him but then haven't seen it enough to judge properly.

If not C then, quite frankly I'm undecided and I blame Rogers for that. He opened his Gob about how great Allen was then decided to play him out of position and injured without telling us. He basically good intentions aside fed him to the wolves (us) so unless he actually plays him fully fit for at least half a season in his "best" position I'm not prepared to write him off. I see the issues with opening teams up. Again I'd have to see if Allen works as well as BR thinks in the finished article. He appeared to do the opposite of Hendo and drain of confidence as it went on.

Trouble is, I have all the same doubts and hopes with Hendo. I thought him a headless chicken at first but put that down to youth & inexperience. Then Rogers came in and basically wrote him off, I though harsh but he's actually working with him. But then the Kid appears to have worked his bollox off and changed BR's mind to a certain extent and gained the confidence that I thought must be totally destroyed. So I admire him for that. That's real mental strength and that's what's needed in a future Gerrard replacement.

So, I'm wondering if they can all be used to do exactly what Two G's wants : offer something different depending on what's put before us. Don't be predictable either like Barca or as we have been in the past.

I suppose the good thing is there's time to see. Gerrard has a couple of years left & these two are still very young.
 
Lucas, Suso, Henderson. Ahead of them Coutinho as I feel he works best as part of a front trio rather than behind it.
 
1) Coutinho or Hendo for me. I think the beauty of a player like Cout is that he can play different roles. The thing with Hendo is he has a ton of energy so it releases Gerrard to play in better areas.

2) In all honesty neither are good enough (at the moment) to lace Gerrards boots. Will they ever be? No, but then it's a harsh comparisson.

Is Allen as poor as his performances last season suggested? Probably not but a midfielder with no confidence is like starting with ten men. He needs to pick up his game big time if he is going to stick around that's for sure. If he does then we'll have a better squad for it <ok>
 
-------Lucas---Gerrard-----
----------Coutinho---------
----Aspas---------Henderson
----------Sturridge----------

This is the team that played the last 4 games last season but with Aspas replacing Downing. I really like how this worked. Henderson got a lot of assists and a few goals last season. Coutinho is an incredible, creative, skillfull AM.
 
JK:5129152 said:
-------Lucas---Gerrard-----
----------Coutinho---------
----Aspas---------Henderson
----------Sturridge----------

This is the team that played the last 4 games last season but with Aspas replacing Downing. I really like how this worked. Henderson got a lot of assists and a few goals last season. Coutinho is an incredible, creative, skillfull AM.
Click to expand...

What I like about that is that IA, PC and JH can all interchange across all three positions. Plus, JH can drop back allowing SG to make surging runs too.
 
Gerrez said:
What I like about that is that IA, PC and JH can all interchange across all three positions. Plus, JH can drop back allowing SG to make surging runs too.
Click to expand...

Heck, I've even seen Aspas drop deep to pick up the ball in pre season: it could be a right handful for the opposition defence if they all develop a good understanding with each other.
 
Two girls said:
astroturfnaut said:
Henderson for energy. Allen for control.
Click to expand...
Henderson for energy. Henderson for control.

There is nothing special about knocking the ball around safely within 20yards. Any footballer can do it if they're disciplined (or negative) enough.
Click to expand...

This isn't all he does though - to be able to make that many passes In a game you have to make yourself available and get in to space to receive the ball which relieves pressure on your TEAM mate.
 
Henderson should be picked ahead of Allen all the time. Henderson had a very good season last year and was only 2nd to Lampard for English player stats. I worry that his progress will be hampered by Allen featuring now and then and prevent him from becoming an England regular.
 
mighty_stevie_g said:
This isn't all he does though - to be able to make that many passes In a game you have to make yourself available and get in to space to receive the ball which relieves pressure on your TEAM mate.
Click to expand...
I actually think Allen's positioning is quite poor. Not even just defensively, but for when we're in possession. He's often available for the second pass because he's not available for the first pass. I've watched all the preseason games so far (Allen is supposed to be fit now following his mysterious shoulder injury) and whereas Lucas is constantly moving into the right space to get a pass from a team mate needing an outlet, Allen is between that player and the opposition - unavailable for the pass out of danger - but is in a great position to get the ball from Lucas afterwards and shuffle it on to Gerrard who then does something useful.

Look, he's improved his box to box running and gets into goal scoring positions now, that's great, but he is my last choice midfielder. His supposed strengths are things I expect any midfielder to do (pass 20yards, keep possession, play it safe, be available for a pass). Xavi, Pirlo, Scholes and Alonso are the players in the position Allen is meant to be filling in the team. They do the simple stuff and loads more. Allen does the simple stuff. That's it. He didn't even do that well for 30 games of last season. We will not get top 4 if Allen is in our starting choice midfield.

I voice (write) my thoughts on Allen quite a bit, and it's not just for a laugh. I don't dismiss players immediately; I've been vocal in my support of the new guys and they've proven to be promising so far. I championed and now even alot of people on here see he wasn't half as bad as made out - just never going to be a top player. Lucas the same. Downing's had some useful performances but now is his time since we've bought improvements to the team...but Allen has shown me nothing.
 
Sorry but people said Hendo (i assume you like me were one of them) wasn't given enough time before being slated and he's played 67 games for us and I still think he needs time to develop.

How many Games had Lucas played when people were still writing him off.

But Allen's 27 games (a lot of which were injury plagued) are enough to condemn him? That's bizarre.

And what was mysterious about his injury other than BR feeling the need to keep playing him so didn't want every man and his dog knowing about it. Unless you're saying it was faked; surgery too? What so Brendan can save face over a bad but? Little extreme don't you think?

You're clearly not going to change your mind on him and that's fair enough but I will give him more time & see what BR's final role is for him before throwing a 23 year old that was getting rave reviews including in our shirt on the scrap heap.

He may turn out to be average: it happens but still a little early for me.
 
Dirtyfrank said:
Sorry but people said Hendo (i assume you like me were one of them) wasn't given enough time before being slated and he's played 67 games for us and I still think he needs time to develop.

How many Games had Lucas played when people were still writing him off.

But Allen's 27 games (a lot of which were injury plagued) are enough to condemn him? That's bizarre.

And what was mysterious about his injury other than BR feeling the need to keep playing him so didn't want every man and his dog knowing about it. Unless you're saying it was faked; surgery too? What so Brendan can save face over a bad but? Little extreme don't you think?

You're clearly not going to change your mind on him and that's fair enough but I will give him more time & see what BR's final role is for him before throwing a 23 year old that was getting rave reviews including in our shirt on the scrap heap.

He may turn out to be average: it happens but still a little early for me.
Click to expand...
Hendo showed me enough in his first few games that he could improve. Allen has showed me nothing other than an ability to do simple things well for 6 games of a season until he apparently picks up a shoulder injury which no one knows about which resulted in him playing awful for the next 30 games and we only find out towards the end of the season when fans are actually asking Hendo to start ahead of him...so as soon as Hendo > Allen in the eyes of the fan, an injury story comes out which coincides with his bad performances, but it was never deemed bad enough to keep him out of the starting XI even when the better performing Hendo was available. Like I said, mysterious. No doubt he had a shoulder injury, but I highly doubt it happened back in October. Handy piece of PR work though.

Hendo made mistakes, but he had flashes of what he could do. Great distance shots hitting the woodowk, a well taken goal early on in his LFC career, some brilliant through passes, workrate, not afraid to get stuck in...Allen did simple stuff and mistakes. I don't see any appeal in that kind of player when we could just play Henderson in the 'shuffler' role and he'd do it plus everything else.

You're right, I'm not going to change my mind on him - not unless he shows me something different. I don't understand what he's meant to be or do. I like midfielders who do something.
 
Two girls said:
Henderson for energy. Henderson for control.

There is nothing special about knocking the ball around safely within 20yards. Any footballer can do it if they're disciplined (or negative) enough.
Click to expand...

They can't though :) Your username says it all, so even if Joe has a stormer, you will rag him. Pointless getting into a discussion with someone who's mind is made up.

To the rest of you, Joe will be a star for you this year. He was carrying a niggle at the end of the season with us (which Brenda obviously knew), then went to the Olympics and had no time off. The best thing to happen to him is for a proper recovery, lest you would have an Owen type early burn out. Enjoy :)
 
People are writing him off after his first season at a big club (not trying to sum any swans!) and he's only 23 and only played one season in the premiership. Sounds a little silly really. Lucas was player of the year in Brazil before he signed for us and it took him at least 3 seasons to prove his worth. Albeit he was foreign, so he gets a little more time.

To believe all he does is pass sideways and backwards is just ignorant, or a willingness to fool yourself. Either way its not true. 1st 2 months of last season he was genuinely one of our best players. And a lot of people were saying that not just me.

Like someone said before me surely he deserves a season, without the excuse of some niggling injury to prove himself. Last couple of games in pre season he's looked good, not the best but definitely top 5, good passing and movement, little stronger and more incisive

Not saying he will be better than hendo ( who I think is the likeliest to get close to being a gerrardesque player), but I do reckon he could still become a very important part of our squad given the chance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back