Allegri to replace Wenger ?

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by PISKIE, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you're saying and naturally no board ever appoints a manager with the intention of them performing poorly, but fact of the matter is that we are an attractive proposition for most top managers around and although Wenger has been around a long while, I accept we may need a season to adapt to a different manager's system and methods if we want longevity and success. I'm under no illusions that whoever we appoint isn't going to instantly be the answer to all our problems, but managers with a decent track record at other clubs represent less of a risk than someone like Pardew or McClaren who get sacked/underperform frequently.

    I honestly cannot remember anyone thinking Coyle would be good enough to be a top manager, he may have been flavor of the month, but speculation linking him with Arsenal was farfetched to begin with. Howe is a different case though because he's been at the club for a while, kept them up comfortably last season against all odds and is well on track to do the same this year - from the position they were in when he took over to where they are now is something a manager like Coyle has never done in his entire career. So I think it's unfair to lump Howe and Coyle in the same bracket because Howe could genuinely be a very good manager in the making as he's demonstrating right now. He's still very young as well.
     
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  2. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Howe crash and burn somewhere after leaving Bournemouth and then returned to take them up? I think he went to Burnley after they were relegated back in 2011 and was pretty piss poor there.
    Plenty of people rated Coyle for the job he did at Burnley but he also crashed and burned when he went elsewhere (Bolton I think).
    If Eddie Howe failed at Burnley I do not see why you are so confident that he could succeed at Arsenal.
    Also, Coyle had a massively smaller wage bill at Burnley compared to Howe at Bournemouth...they have very rich owners and pay higher wages than Burnley ever did which means they attract znd keep better players.
    I think that currently a comparison between Coyle and Howe is a fair one. However may well go on to be a top manager but my point is, he may well be a manager suited to a particular club.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  3. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
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    The other thing with Howe is that he has zero experience at the top level. He's never managed a champions league team and it's a massive step up from where he currently is. People have said flattering things about him, sure. But they also said that about Moyes and Martinez and when they made the step up they flopped spectacularly. I hear some Arsenal fans saying, we'll give him (the new manager) time and it might take a season or two to adapt, but I know how unforgiving some Arsenal fans can be. There's a near riot when we lose a couple of games, can you imagine the reaction if we finished 6th or 7th for a couple of seasons ?!

    In my opinion, we need to appoint a manager with a proven track record. Somebody who has mounted title challenges, and played in the Champions League. Arsenal are simply too big a club to risk taking a punt on a promising but untested manager.
     
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  4. theevilreddevil

    theevilreddevil Well-Known Member

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    Diego Simeone would be worth a shout and just think of the players he might be able to bring with him, but not Griezmann he is clearly coming to United<cheers>
     
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  5. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    Let me just make clear - I'm not saying Howe should be at the top of our list of replacements, I'm just saying there is more potential in him than there ever was in Coyle. Yeah he didn't do great with Burnley, but he was still young and plying his trade, plenty of world-class managers have had poor spells in previous jobs.

    As for your last sentence about he may well be a manager suited to a particular club - I actually mentioned this in a previous thread as to why he'd be risky, but it's swings and roundabouts because we're never going to know whether a manager is well-suited at a particular place or whether he can cut it elsewhere until we make the next appointment. So there's only one way to find out!
     
    #25
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  6. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
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    The problem is, that it's such a big step up from Bournemouth to Arsenal. The expectation level is huge and I just don't think Howe is ready for it yet. I'd like to see him manage a Europa league team first and climb the ladder proving himself along the way.
     
    #26
  7. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    Again - I agree with you and let me just make clear: I'm not saying I want him as our first choice. In fact, he would barely make my top 10 list.
     
    #27
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  8. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    But Piskie, surely you can see that there's more to Howe than there was to Owen bloody Coyle? If any Arsenal fans genuinely was in favor of him being Wenger's successor, they are batshit crazy because that thought never even crossed my mind.

    I have to say though - it's weird what happens to these managers who get clubs promoted, then they struggle in the top tier, get sacked and then never recover from it. You had Phil Brown at Hull who got them to the Prem, now he's at Southend. You have Coyle as well who did a decent job with Burnely, now he's at relegation threatened Blackburn Rovers. Then there was Ian Holloway who did well with Blackpool and overacheived by even getting them to the Prem, now he's struggling at QPR who are also in danger of being pulled in a relegation scrap. And Paul Lambert too.

    Do owners lose confidence in them completely or something? Just weird to see them never get back to that level again.
     
    #28
  9. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
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    Agree, Howe is better than Owen Coyle and I think / hope he'll go on to achieve good things. I only mention Coyle as he was one of a handful of names that were banded about as being managers who could do a better job than Wenger, and predictably that all turned out to be a crock of ****e.

    I think certain managers such as Moyes, Martinez, Coyle, Holloway etc just have a ceiling, which is mid/lower prem and decent achievers in the Championship, but these managers are not of the required calibre to successfully manage the big clubs like Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and City. Can you imagine Ian Holloway in the Champions League trying outfox Bayern or Barca ?
     
    #29
  10. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Howe is a good young manager but I'd be really worried if he succeeded Wenger. Big risk.

    I also think players like Ozil and Sanchez would be more comfortable at the club under a big manager and that goes for future big signings as well. Particularly if the new manager takes a season or so to settle and we drop out the CL. We need a manager with some top level pedigree to keep the faith of our players.

    I'd like us to go for one of the top names in the game. We can afford to pay for a top manager and we are a club almost any manager would love a chance to manage. It's a job with big resources, in a good city, a good squad and a board known for patience.

    Klopp and Guardiola are the two managers over recent years I'd have liked to see as Wengers replacement but the ship has sailed on both of them. Not sure who would make my shortlist currently.

    Some of the names over the trophy less years though were absolutely ridiculous, honestly people genuinely wanted the likes of Coyle and Allardyce. And several others touted as possibilities who looked very promising like Moyes or Martinez turned out to not look capable when given chances at big clubs. I think we need to be very careful how we proceed when Wenger goes.

    Even if we fall short this season I'd be happy for Wenger to sign a one year extension while we get the right person in if we fail to land a top manager in the summer.
     
    #30
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  11. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
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  12. Go hard or Go Home

    Go hard or Go Home Well-Known Member

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    If we really are to swap out Wenger this summer and don't want to lose our top players, I think we will have to replace him with a superstar manager.
     
    #32
  13. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    Like who? There are no 'superstar' managers available.

    Mourinho is at United, Pep's at City, Conte's at Chelsea, Klopp at Liverpool, Anchelotti at Bayern.

    Allegri and Simeone are still not that well known outside of their respective leagues.
     
    #33
  14. Go hard or Go Home

    Go hard or Go Home Well-Known Member

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    So we keep him until a better one is available or be prepared to lose many of our better players.
     
    #34
  15. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    If our best players are only playing for Wenger and not arsenal then good riddance to them.
     
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  16. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    Wenger has a good relationship with the players. Will be very hard to keep all our best assets when he leaves.
     
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  17. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    Na I think the Club just have to go for the best manager for the job. Big name or not.
     
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  18. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. No other club has an exodus when managers leave
     
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  19. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    Would anyone take Laurent Blanc at Arsenal?

    Pretty much dominated the French league as soon as he took over PSG. Not hard to do I suppose when your financial resources far exceed any other side in the division, and you have the likes of Ibra, Cavani, di Maria, Verratti, Moura etc, but you still have to manage those big egos and he did nurture some promising young players, whilst having them play some good football.

    Only thing is, similar to Wenger, his record in Europe wasn't that great, so I'm not sure how well we would fare in that respect. Really want to see us progress in Europe, but not sure Blanc is tactically astute enough.
     
    #39
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  20. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    I think he is a very good manager and has probably only left his previous jobs because of just how high the expectation has been.

    At Bordeaux he won the league despite not being favourites. The same year he won there equivalent of the league cup and two years running won the super cup (community shield). He also took them to a CL quarter final which was well above what was expected of them. Looking it up they had Juventus and Bayern in there group that year and topped it.

    For France he inherited a team filled with bitterness and discontent. Loads of them were banned from playing for the international team so he had to work with what he had but still topped the qualifying group and eventually lead the team to a euro quarter final going out to Spain which is understandable.

    After that at PSG he won a domestic treble and then back to back domestic quadruples, but went out every year in the QF of the CL I believe. PSG under Blance were a bit like City under Pellegrini in that they played very well domestically but in Europe seemed to have some kind of block that stopped them progressing as far as the team on paper appeared to be capable of. It's worth noting most teams take a few years in the competition before they really manage to do anything.

    He is a bit like Wenger in that he makes decisions sometimes that annoy fans because he thinks he knows best.

    He is a big enough name that he would command respect from the players and a confident enough man that he'd step into the role and do things his way. But there is a question mark over whether he can do it outside of France where he knows the league, the culture, the players etc... If he had been in another European league and done well I think he'd be a really good option, but as it stands I'd be worried how long it would take him to adapt.

    He is far more the calibre of manager we should be considering than some other names thrown around though!
     
    #40
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