I can understand where Queenslander is coming from, it seems a bit odd that you'd immediately link all our players who've recieved red cards by their race? Why not by the fact that they've all recently played in the french league? Isn't the red card glut more likely to do with a difference in pace between the two leagues rather than the fact that the players originate from Africa. They're not even all from the same African country, just seems a bit daft to me.
Igor is correct in his assumption, the African/French speaking discipline is suspect, as are the goalies. Theres plenty of top class outfielders but I cant think of an African goalie Id want us to sign. Its no different than calling the Spanish/Italian divers or saying the English are crap at penalties.
Let's get one thing straight. Mbia's and Diakite's red card were two very very different things. Diakite keeped flying recklessly into players and finally got the red and Mbia last day seemed perfect at dispossessing opponents and got red because he lost his cool. Materazzi, Pepe, Gatusso and so on so forth. Nothing smart in this thread, it's just plain stupid to generalize.
Which "infraction" was that one? When he stood up to his man like a brick ****house (obstruction?) and the Arsenal guy rolled over the top of him?
Diving in when on a yellow is losing your cool and not thinking. All of the red cards we got recently were incredibly stupid and should have been fined, the exceptions are Derrys and Bartons (against Norwich) because neither were red cards.
He got 2 yellow cards. Yes he was reckless. But it was in the heat of the battle. Mbia get fouled and after the whistle he kicked a player. For me it's much more worst. But Diakite should work on his tackles surely.
Diakites debut was worse, Mbia had one moment of red mist which was incredibly stupid but Diakite was mental for a good 15 mins after he got his 1st yellow, everyone in the ground except Hughes knew he was going to be sent off.
There are no racist comments in this thread. Its very much true that African players have not been taught to tackle. That may be different now but it wasn't the case in 2009. There were no specialised goalkeeping coaches back then either. I love African football and firmly believe an African nation will win the world cup sooner rather than later.
Mate...that's scandalous PC crap. At no point did the article mention anything about anyone being black!! There are white Africans too ffs!! Please, stop this ridiculous madness!!
Good decision NUTS. Let respectful discussions between adults run their course. We mods are neither the pc brigade, anti-pc brigade nor are we the thought police thank ****. We're simply here to keep things reasonably moderate - and so far on this thread they are... (hoping no one's proven me wrong whilst writing!) If we were the thought police, we'd have one helluva job on a thread like this where considered thought hasn't progressed beyond its reactionary stage yet! So who would we be targeting for a pull? Igor for getting his maths wrong (4 doesn't equal billions!)? Queens for thinking, here we go on the black thing again? Both have a right to express opinions and ask questions - cos that's all that's really happening here. What both sides are after is the truth and no doubt their ongoing deliberations, once boiled down sufficiently, would discover that the African game is still developing with the same level of innocent naivety that Igor shows in his OP (aw bless!)... and the same innocent naivety that produces entertaining ball players (Taarabt, Diakite, M'bia, Traore etc.) of the type we techie Europeans seem so intent upon stifling at source these days. If we take the 'pc' thing into account, the 'antis' love to generalise and the 'pros' to specify. So let's have a look down both avenues. Generally speaking, African players are not ill-disciplined. If they were, we'd have seen the distinction causing havoc in World Cup games featuring African national sides. Hasn't happened has it? Specifically, whilst I agree that Cisse and M'bia's sendings off were (like Hill's and Barton's last year) acts of ill-discipline, Diakite's and Taarabt's were not. Diakite's problem is timing, something he gets very right when in possession and wrong when challenging sometimes. Taarabt on the other hand was sent off for a second yellow in dubious circumstances. Also, if there were to be a connection made between Cisse, Diakite, Taarabt and M'bia it would, as Matt says, have far more to do with the French than African games. Slower but perhaps more effective than ours at times - and certainly more stylish at its best - but clearly time and re-training is needed when adapting from one style to the other. Somewhere in all that lays the truth we're after. Discussion usually outs it in the end. Creating taboos along the way simply closes things down including our communal ability to learn from each other. If we aren't intent upon putting ourselves above others in the scheme of things (and Igor clearly wasn't) then 'isms' around race and our other differences remain benign (i.e. no issue). In that context it doesn't hurt to question anything we don't fully understand - and others should magnimously make allowances for our ignorance. After all, none of us was born with knowledge and experience. That only ever comes with time and interactions with others.
Sorry to start this kind of thread but it didn't look so sensitive matter when you looked it from here in finland. Anyway if those players would have been from scandinavia and my thread was about scandinavian players no one would have take it badly. They weren't, it wasn't and someone take it. To end this thread from my behalf i just like to say that some of our sent offs have been incredibly stupid. Sure everybody are with me in this?
Igor..again mate, I genuinely believe you are not racist and just worded your OP incorrectly. Col..what part of "African player have no discipline" is not racist? Please explain. Bob, without insulting you. Spending 6 weeks in a country does neither make you an expert or give you a full understanding of African life. I lived in Andorra for longer than that and I still dont know how they do some of the things they do ! If people cannot see the racial (un-intended)element in the OP then i'm worried. And for you to acuse me of making this thread something it not...well, i thought the posters on this site were more informed than that. try this. Imagine you are a native of Africa who has just landed in England after years of hardship and worked yourself to the bone to help your family...Now re-read the OP... Get the point now boys? For the record, Im not doing it for others as someone (Col?) stated. Its because I'm half West Indian! Never taken offence to any post on here and i left WATRB because of regular posts like this. Also i did ask for it to be closed as i knew it would go this way.......!
Funny you should mention that as it was the first that fell into my head when reading the OP. Only 11 when I watched on tv the first time and it still is one of the most memorable moments in football for me, hilarious And who can forget Rigobert Song, a record holder for fastest red in a world cup. [video=youtube;KedhyI7lHNw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KedhyI7lHNw[/video]
If you said white people cant dance. Id agree with you as most of us cannot. Same goes for black people not playing ice hockey or swimming or white people playing not playing basketball or doing the 100m. They are not racist statements, just observations like Igors post was.
Mate, i agree with this..you white peo;ple have no rythm....!! but seriously. I undetrstand your oservation argument, but there is a massive diffrence between saying white people cant dance & the whole of Africa is Ill diciplined. Big diffrence I'll accept what Igor said but think he may have just worded it badly ? Kofi Anan may have something to say about Africans not having discipline !
If you read what I'm saying col, you will see I'm not making judgment, more advising that in today's PC age, and with the number of people being put. Behind bars for racist comments, you need to be a little more structures in your comments rather than making sweeping statements. I know exactly what igor means, as I'm sure we all do, and I know he didn't mean it in a racist way, but queens was quiet irate, so I tried to take a middle ground and explain to igor why it's easy for people to judge this original statement in a different manner.
Can I just add that Cisse has a great disciplinary record. He has only received 2 red cards in his entire career (of ten years) and they were both for us. Is it not just that QPR as a team have poor discipline? I'm with Queenslander on this one.
