academy cat 3!!!

I do think that the cost was the main reason behind the thinking. As I understand it, Cat 2 would have obliged us to play in the youth leagues as in Cat 1. To have to send a team to Newcastle to play on a training ground doesn't seem to be a great way of bringing players on, as well as expensive. Providing the links with Harefield are maintained, then I can't see us being much worse off.

The thing that seems to be overlooked a lot is that we still have to sell players to pay off the annual losses. This means that we have to produce or buy cheaply players that WFC own. We cannot exist purely on loanees from abroad as they are not ours to sell.

 

That's the worrying thing. They talk about making profits year on year, but having sold Mariappa we only own one player who could be sold tomorrow for upwards of £1m. And he's 18.

 

The age range hasn't been discussed much - regardless of the increase in numbers of the 1st team squad, would the club find it difficult fullfilling the U21 fixtures? I say this because our Academy is really up to 18 yrs old - then we sign them on as Apprentices or Schoolars for 2 more years - so no 21 yr olds.

It seems to me the U21 League model may not suit our setup at all.

Our Academy may have ended up being kicked around the park and learning nothing so we would have had to mix young players already within the 1st team squad to bolster them up which doesn't appear efficient at all or practical. Also, in the past the club choose to take the Reserves out of the League so that they could structure the games played in a better way rather than be committed to fixtures that may get called off and end up with a backlog of reserve or U21 fixtures. They also looked to developing the players through the loan system by moving them from level to level which gives experience and a more rounded player.

Lastly I would say that the U21 League was hastily organised with not much notice and pre-planning and this may also have come into their thoughts when making their decision.

I said lastly but I just wanted to add that what I said in a previous post remains the same; I still think our Academy will now die a slow death - I really do hope I'm wrong on this but I see the kids going there until they are 16 then moving to the bigger clubs therefore the link will be dilluted. My only hope is that this decision has been taken because of our current position and should we get promoted within 2 years we will either be attractive enough or can afford to pay for the up-grade to the Academy.

 

Speculation is fine but I'll wait and hold them to this:

WATFORD FC confirms that its Academy status planning within the EPPP (Elite Player Performance Plan) scheme will be directed towards Category 3.
The Pozzo family stated, upon taking control at Vicarage Road, that it intends to continue the Academy values and traditions of producing talented, home-grown players.
“Nothing will divert us from this focus, but as a business we are choosing to pursue those goals within sensible investment parameters,” said Hornets’ Technical Director Gian Luca Nani.
“Gianfranco Zola has said there will be always be a place in his squad for talented youngsters.
“There will be some change, inevitably, but all of the excellent practises that already exist will, wherever practical, be maintained and developed further.”
This decision means that Watford FC’s Academy have notified both the Football League and Premier League of its intention to withdraw from the Under-21 fixture programme with immediate effect.
The Under-21 fixture programme is mandatory at both Category 1 and 2 levels within the EPPP guidelines.
“The commitment of the club to young players remains the same,” added Nani.
“We want the best for them and the best for Watford Football Club.”

 

The last time I checked, blackmail was illegal.
The last time I checked, discrimination against a European citizen based on where they live was illegal.
The last time I checked, under 13s cannot enter into binding agreements relating to employment, whether direct and immediate, or indirect with consequences down the line should you break it.
The last time I checked, the Football Association, Premier League and Football League were not bodies with law-making powers.
The last time I checked, cartels were illegal.

It remains to be seen which, if any, of the previous statements relate to EPPP. What I am sure about is that being a category 3 club puts us at a disadvantage, but that those disadvantages should be diluted or erased over the coming years. But even the short term damage could be felt for years to come.

 

I don't think the Pozzo's bought the club "because of the Academy". They bought us because we are in the right league and the right location for them to extend their "project" (and we were cheap to buy, even with the debt they took on.) The Academy set up showed them that we have a good infrastructure for player development (part of their model, so might have been a factor) but they do not need to maintain an ambitious system for local recruitment of very young players, since they will be relying on their global scouting network for that.

The acid test will be if they keep or break the link with Harefield. This is what makes our Academy set-up unique and properly rooted in the community. It is also something for the fans to identify with. It has been a feature of following the club for the last few years that we have been able to enjoy young players coming towards the first team who are genuinely "Watford products"--young men who have received a sound academic, social and football education within the Harefield/Watford Academy set up from an early age and who are now emerging as highly promising professionals. Let us hope this approach is not to be abandoned.

In fact is probably not necessary now that we produce and sell "Watford registered" players to balance the books/pay off the debt. The Pozzo's can do that from their own resources. They must have a system for sharing the revenues from player sales among their three clubs, as well as for measuring the costs and contributions to player development from each club. Doubtless our Academy set up has been evaluated from that point of view.

As pioneers of this model of a football business the Pozzo's must be to some extent reacting to circumstances and changing regulations--the decisions they make will be driven by the needs of the whole business, not just Watford. I suppose we will have to get used to it.

 

On the Official website there is this interview:

Hornets' Head of Academy looks forward after youth decision announcement:

WATFORD FC's Head of Academy Nick Cox says he can fully understand the club’s decision not to pursue EPPP Category 1 status.
He told watfordfc.com: “I understand and respect the fact that our owners are doing what is right for this club, given the challenges they’ve faced,” said Cox, who has moved up the Hornets’ youth coaching ranks in various capacities during well over a decade’s service to the club.

Both Categories 1 and 2 stipulate that clubs compete in an Under-21 competition.

“If our lads are ready – be that at 17, 18, 19, etc. – then they are very likely to be playing competitive first-team football, whether that’s here at Watford or out on loan to build experience.
“We believe this competitive experience, something we have always given our young players, is going to be better for us than competing in the Under-21 league.

“The new football staff are clear that this is still very much the plan for our emerging young talent, so it’s a decision that’s much easier to support on that basis.”
EPPP Category 3 status does carry certain constraints, but Cox is keen to clear up one matter in particular.

“There have been some revision to the recruitment criteria since the EPPP’s initial inception, so we will be able to recruit players at nine years of age and sign them on professional terms, as is the case now, at the age of 17.

“The task in hand for us in the Academy hasn’t changed in its core aim: continuing to deliver an excellent programme that inspires our youngsters and produces players for our first-team.

“I am certain we are very well prepared to continue to meet this challenge.”

 

Time will tell but I think you are right on this one !

 

this makes me feel more comfortable with the decision..

 

Very interesting thread about the future of an academy that we are all immensely proud to have. I am sure that the Italian accountants have made the decision and I hope that this is a shrewd move rather than a policy decision to wind down the academy set up. After reading the comments on here I am a more confident that the academy has a long term future.

Was the downgrading of the academy status discussed with or explained to the Watford Supporters Trust?

 

The WST (or, more likely, one person in a position of influence speaking on behalf of the entire membership) attacked the Pozzos in stronger terms than they ever used against Bassini, dismissing Granada's survival last season as lucky, and the Pozzo model generally as turning us into a nursery club. They also hinted that the team might be picked along national lines, rather than on merit. Actually, what we've seen is quite the opposite, with new players generally only getting a look in once Zola is confident that they are fully fit and better than what we had available last season. Note that the only Italian in our squad is Piero Mingoia, born in London, fluent in English and a Watford academy player through and through. Worse still, the media have spent the last two months dining out on quotes from that stupid statement in June.

Under those circumstances, why would the club be in a hurry to pre-emptively approach them?

 

North North--I do not quite see it that way.The "Italianisation" of the club now seems almost complete , with Italian owners, manager, coaches (Russ Wilson just left--Huddersfield now look like a well set up club) and players from Udinese likely to make up up a good proportion of the team. The future of the club is now defined by its role in the Pozzo "family" . Does this require us to have a first class Academy, focused on finding and developing local talent from an early age? Maybe not. It is the Italian accountants who will decide.

 

Finally, some analysis of the difference between the requirements of Category 1 and 3.

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sp...fference_between_a_Category_1_and_3_Academy_/

Here is what we know:

• The club will get around £71,500 when EPPP defrauds the club of a 16 year old player such as Sean Murray, instead of around £200,000. The exact amount may be lower, depending on the age we spotted the player at.
• Our younger age groups will play against the likes of Arsenal in friendlies where every player's objective is to impress, as opposed to league games in which every player's objective is to impress.
• We will loan out players not in first team contention, so that they can play competitive football at a lower level instead of in the U21 league.
• We will not play two U21 games a season at Vicarage Road, unless we happen to be drawn at home twice in the FA Youth Cup.
• What Harefield currently does meets Category Three requirements. Significant changes would be required to meet Category One requirements, which at the very least would mean doubling the budget and staffing levels.

Those bullet points don't address the unanswered question of what the Pozzos intend to do with the academy, but there is nothing in particular to prevent us from carrying on broadly as before.

 

Well, we can carry on broadly as before, but the world is changing around us. So the issue will be this: as a cat3 Academy ( albeit one uniquely linked to a secondary school-- if the Harefield link stays-- and thus able to offer both more coaching time and a better integrated education than other cat 3 academies) will we still be able to attract the most talented young players against the appeal of cat1/2 Academies, still be able to keep them as they develop, and still convince them that they have a chance of progressing to first team football with us , when they can see a first team well packed with Udinese loan players?

There is a long way to go on this one, but the first test is : will the link with Harefield be preserved on the same terms and conditions?

 

I agree that that's the key test Roger. Parents don't pull their children out of a school lightly, and they don't move house lightly, so the important thing is that the provision at Harefield is similar and players still believe that there is a good chance of professional football here.

 

Am I reading the WO right in that there is an attempt at the moment to reduce the amount paid annually to suppport the academy at Harefield? Less money = perhaps fewer staff, less coaching time, less upgrading of equipment and perhaps in the long term a less attractive proposition for potential recruits. I don't feel very knowledgeable about what's going on but certainly a bit concerned...

 

Ok, so you're saying the Pozzos are trying to kill the academy, but what would Baz have done? Did he even have any money? Do you honestly think he'd invest the equivalent of Mariappa's transfer fee just to be a Cat 1?

Nowhere in that article does it say they're trying to kill the academy, they just don't want to pump millions into it to get pretty much the same result as what we're going to have. Young players being poached for less is an issue, but then again that has happened before and would still have happened if we were Cat 1. The Pozzos would not get rid of our main source of revenue over the years, the kids will still be getting playing time, I really don't see where the problem is...

 

Toby--it remains to be seen where the problem is, or if there is indeed a problem, but this decision is , if nothing else , a source of anxiety. until it is either clarified or events prove it to be sound. As has been said, the first and critical test is the preservation of the arrangement with Harefield. And yes, Bas could not have financed a cat 1 Academy from his resources, so from that point of view the club is not in a worse situation.