Aaron Ramsey's transformation.

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What do you mean? For the last 8 years we've had players with plenty of (3) and none of (2).

Which of our invincible team left us in their prime?

The players who left us in their prime did so during our barren period. RVP, Fabregas, Nasri, Hleb (yeah I know), Cole, Flamini...
 
All left when they were past it. When we were winning things Vieira and Henry turned down the chance to move and gave their best years to us.
 
cini65 said:
All left when they were past it. When we were winning things Vieira and Henry turned down the chance to move and gave their best years to us.
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Huh? You must know that this is factually incorrect.

Henry left in 2007 aged 29.

Vieira left in 2005 also aged 29.

Gilberto left in 2008 aged 31.

van Bronckhorst left in 2003/4 aged 28.

Are we seriously saying that 28/29 year olds are "past it"? If we are RVP leaving was no big deal then!
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
Huh? You must know that this is factually incorrect.

Henry left in 2007 aged 29.

Vieira left in 2005 also aged 29.

Gilberto left in 2008 aged 31.

van Bronckhorst left in 2003/4 aged 28.

Are we seriously saying that 28/29 year olds are "past it"? If we are RVP leaving was no big deal then!
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Don't think age is relevant as different players go on for longer periods of time at different levels.

Henry only had one top quality season with barca so I can see it as a reasonable argument to say he was past his prime when he left us.

And Veira played his best football at arsenal too, same with Gilberto.
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
Huh? You must know that this is factually incorrect.

Henry left in 2007 aged 29.

Vieira left in 2005 also aged 29.

Gilberto left in 2008 aged 31.

van Bronckhorst left in 2003/4 aged 28.

Are we seriously saying that 28/29 year olds are "past it"? If we are RVP leaving was no big deal then!
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The game has moved on, even just 5 years ago, 29-30 was seen as "getting on", but due to the advanced science now, players can stay at the top for longer.
 
This was my favourite Ramsey moment this season:

[video=youtube;oczivLSO0io]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oczivLSO0io[/video]
 
While those players did still have plenty to offer, you'd have to say they where not still right at there peak or still on the up when they left us.
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
Huh? You must know that this is factually incorrect.

Henry left in 2007 aged 29.

Vieira left in 2005 also aged 29.

Gilberto left in 2008 aged 31.

van Bronckhorst left in 2003/4 aged 28.

Are we seriously saying that 28/29 year olds are "past it"? If we are RVP leaving was no big deal then!
Click to expand...

I don't care about your list of ages. They were all past their best when they left. Van Bronckhorst I don't really count anyway in all this... did anyone ever rate him?!
 
afcftw said:
While those players did still have plenty to offer, you'd have to say they where not still right at there peak or still on the up when they left us.
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Not sure how much of this assessment is because their moves were not the most successful.

I just can't get over how the Wenger critics are all over the place when this sort of debate goes on. I'm sure in past threads these same people were beating Wenger over the head for "selling our best players". Now when the opposite argument is required, it's all switched around.

But anyway, I seriously doubt that "Winning trophies" can seriously be separated from "Earning more money". If Ramsey goes it isn't going to be possible to decide which of the two it was, and even so, it will be future based, winning a trophy last year isn't going to count for much.

And on top of that, manager loyalty needs to appear at 1) or 2) in that list. If Wenger goes somewhere else, Ramsey and half the players are an immediate flight risk!
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
Not sure how much of this assessment is because their moves were not the most successful.

I just can't get over how the Wenger critics are all over the place when this sort of debate goes on. I'm sure in past threads these same people were beating Wenger over the head for "selling our best players". Now when the opposite argument is required, it's all switched around.
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Nothing has switched around, what are you talking about? I don't remember losing our prime players back in the early 2000s. Since 2005 we've lost a lot of players in their prime. The logic there is clear and not all over the place in the slightest. Though I suppose you are the one who thinks that United are in a worse position right now than when Fergie took over so logic isn't your strong point <whistle>
 
cini65 said:
Nothing has switched around, what are you talking about? I don't remember losing our prime players back in the early 2000s. Since 2005 we've lost a lot of players in their prime. The logic there is clear and not all over the place in the slightest. Though I suppose you are the one who thinks that United are in a worse position right now than when Fergie took over so logic isn't your strong point <whistle>
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Two things:

1. Probably best if we don't derail this thread away from Ramsey.

2. Why must every single one of you posts contain some sort of personal insult against me.

I notice every time I retaliate SJW deletes my post and offers some jibe against me, but this sort of "low level" insulting/derailing is allowed to continue without intervention.
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
Two things:

1. Probably best if we don't derail this thread away from Ramsey.

2. Why must every single one of you posts contain some sort of personal insult against me.

I notice every time I retaliate SJW deletes my post and offers some jibe against me, but this sort of "low level" insulting/derailing is allowed to continue without intervention.
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Sorry. That's actually genuine. I just find it hard not to because I fundamentally disagree with almost everything you say so much. But come on, it is fun creating our posts to each other isn't it? :) don't leave again...
 
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