A level headed fan

[Boss]

Bent June 2007 16.5 million
Bentley July 2008 15 million
Modric April 2008 16.5 million

He has done it before all three of these fees can easily be equated to over 20 million in current terms. Bentley of course has burnt his fingers, but there is no doubt in my mind Levy would spend at that level if he considered it right. Deals in Jan are always more difficult because the team very often has to replace the player at once. I don't think you have a strong case there Boss.

The deal wasn't January specific, as if the two clubs had agreed a deal to take place in the summer and were as close as suggested, then arrangements would have been made for the deal to be finalised in January, but with the months before for porto to plan for the departure.

The deals which are hard to take place in January, are the ones in which the selling club have no time to find a replacement, due to the bid being unexpected.

Also, not sure you can suggest the fees posted are equivalent to 24 million (or there about) as I keep getting told (by Levy supporters) that we can't spend big due to FFP, so the transfer market doesn't operate in the same way as back then, which is why I mentioned today's transfer market.

 

[Spurf]

I questioned the logic of signing Bent for such a huge fee at the time and then two other teams did the same. I still can't see that value in him but he's a prime example of why Levy might want to question quite hard why player x is worth so much.

 

[Spurf]

The deal wasn't January specific, as if the two clubs had agreed a deal to take place in the summer and were as close as suggested, then arrangements would have been made for the deal to be finalised in January, but with the months before for porto to plan for the departure.

The deals which are hard to take place in January, are the ones in which the selling club have no time to find a replacement, due to the bid being unexpected.

Also, not sure you can suggest the fees posted are equivalent to 24 million (or there about) as I keep getting told (by Levy supporters) that we can't spend big due to FFP, so the transfer market doesn't operate in the same way as back then, which is why I mentioned today's transfer market.

I still think a deal in the summer is not the same as a deal in January even for the same player.

I am saying that from 2007/8 there has been inflation in transfer fees because of money coming to clubs like City, Malaga, PSG, Various Russian teams, and so on, we are competing with all these teams in the market. Transfer fees are not dependent on local or even European conditions this is a world wide market. Brazil will be looking at the fees that their players have changed hands for once they leave Brazil and be thinking that they have lost out. I bet they wish they had asked more for Sandro for example. What did they get in S/America for Messi or Tevez?

 

[Boss]

I questioned the logic of signing Bent for such a huge fee at the time and then two other teams did the same. I still can't see that value in him but he's a prime example of why Levy might want to question quite hard why player x is worth so much.

Personally I don't believe Damião is worth a 20 million gamble BUT as you say we spent a large fee in Bent many years ago, so surely Levy would be happy to pay the asking price for a player we have been chasing for 3-4 years (and a players who's stock is rising each year)?

This is one of the reason I don't believe Levy would release 20-24 million on a player today (that also expects top wages), as he always wants to strike a deal his way, and unless we're getting a bargain then we can't always sign players on our ideal terms.

....I hope to be proven wrong and you can remind me of this thread if I am, as I want Levy to take more of a risk/or show ambition with transfers.

 

[lennypops]

It depends how much evidence you need, if what is widely reported in the media or what our manager says counts then there's plenty of evidence we were trying to do deals for those two that would break our transfer record. If you don't feel those sources are entirely trustworthy(understandable) then you're going to find it very hard to be convinced we know anything other than the signings we made, inwhich case we're in no case to criticise Levy for not trying either.

Oh - I'm not being that skeptical - I believe everything that AVB said. Point is that putting in a deadline day offer or two way below the selling club's valuation on a player that they have refused to sell cheap for the last four or five windows is not really trying, is it?

Spurs have no excuse for not knowing how Inter value Damiao or what they believe an acceptable offer would be. This pantomime of "trying" to sign him every window for about the past two and a half years is depressing and stupid.

 

[The RDBD]

"Bent June 2007 16.5 million
Bentley July 2008 15 million"

And that is literally the sum of it.
Since then, Levy is not flushing money down the drain on a whim.

The club does not have the money, today, to take those risks again.
When Spurs has N consecutive years of CL piggy trough to piss up
the wall like the Sky Four could, then spend 20+ m up front on an
unproven (but good) prospect.

 

[lennypops]

"Bent June 2007 16.5 million
Bentley July 2008 15 million"

And that is literally the sum of it.
Since then, Levy is not flushing money down the drain on a whim.

The club does not have the money, today, to take those risks again.
When Spurs has N consecutive years of CL piggy trough to piss up
the wall like the Sky Four could, then spend 20+ m up front on an
unproven (but good) prospect.

Thing is that with both of those it was obvious to everyone that they were totally unnecessary purchases. Bent when we had Berba, Keane and Defoe, Bentley when we had Lennon. I can see a little bit of logic in the latter (offers something very different to Lennon. Or at least was meant to).

Right now we have two strikers. A striker really is needed. Basically, at the moment, I see the success/failure of this window comes down to "Are two strikers enough?". I can't see that they are. And I can't see any top club thinking that two is enough. Even AVB (whose words about the Damiao possibly show a little frustration) has said it's a risk to only have two. You bet it is.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

In terms of Damiao, Inter said we were miles apart (or words to that effect) to 5Lives South America football correspondent, as we wanted to pay in instalments while Inter wanted the majority of the fee upfront, so we're the buyer, we don't dictate how the seller decides to sell, which is why we're wasting our time trying to buy a player on our terms, when they don't match the sellers terms.

As for Moutinho, 24 million and 100 grand a week, no I don't believe that at all, as if a fee was agreed in the summer, and we was serious about the purchase then the deal would have been tied up for this window.

Dempsey for 6 million and Holtby for 1.5 million looks better to the accountant, then 24 million for Moutinho and you honestly think Levy would gamble 24 million on one single player? Fair play if you do, yet what has Levy done in the transfer market to suggest he would spend such a huge fee in todays transfer market?

I think we've digressed from my point that I was trying to make to Lenny but funnily enough it's also demonstrated well what I was on about. You can believe what you want when it comes to transfer talk. Ultimately there's no concrete evidence for us fans to go on but you should be consistent in what represents proof to you. If you don't believe nearly every media outlet reporting that we were on the verge of signing Moutinho but the third party agreement meant we couldn't complete in time then how can then say that it wouldn't have happened because Levy wouldn't spend £24mill on a player. As in where did that £24mill figure come from if not media speculation?

Just for the record I can think of a number of reasons that the transfer didn't go through in January, a lot changed in 5 months like how Porto sold Hulk a few days later meaning they had not great need to sell, Holtby was signed and Ade went to ACON.

Oh - I'm not being that skeptical - I believe everything that AVB said. Point is that putting in a deadline day offer or two way below the selling club's valuation on a player that they have refused to sell cheap for the last four or five windows is not really trying, is it?

Spurs have no excuse for not knowing how Inter value Damiao or what they believe an acceptable offer would be. This pantomime of "trying" to sign him every window for about the past two and a half years is depressing and stupid.

Again, how are you so sure he was trying to do it on the cheap? The bid could've been £13mill, £16mill, or £17mill from the headlines on the story that I've seen and Boss says it came down to a disagreement in payment structure.

In order for us to get into discussions about transfers we need to have a bit of faith in the media speculation, otherwise it's pointless, but there's a difference between that and paying attention to the stuff that you can put an anti-Levy spin on. You said you couldn't see any evidence that Levy was really serious about Moutinho(and Damiao) but surely the vast majority of the media reporting that we were close to making him a transfer record breaking signing is as much evidence as anything else you can come up with to the contrary?

Right now we have two strikers. A striker really is needed. Basically, at the moment, I see the success/failure of this window comes down to "Are two strikers enough?". I can't see that they are. And I can't see any top club thinking that two is enough. Even AVB (whose words about the Damiao possibly show a little frustration) has said it's a risk to only have two. You bet it is.

Don't Chelsea have two strikers?

 

[Sidney Fiddler]

A Crap bit of writing aimed at 9 year olds, from Levy lovers brigade.

 

[vimhawk]

I questioned the logic of signing Bent for such a huge fee at the time and then two other teams did the same. I still can't see that value in him but he's a prime example of why Levy might want to question quite hard why player x is worth so much.

Exactly. I have heard many people on here (and previous 606) saying that we should pay whatever is being asked, buy early in the window and generally break our wage structure to compete with teams we can't compete with financially, as they don't have to obey any accepted rules of finance. We just don't know exactly what goes on in the window, but does anyone seriously think that the Board/AVB haven't done any proper assessment of what the squad needs - and in greater depth and with more details than anyone on here knows. Does anyone on here doubt that the selling club knows what their assets are worth and will pitch a price appropriate to the bidding club? It's just simplistic to say "buy early" because the price may be higher for a "quick sale", and are we assuming that anyone we want also wants to come here and their club is prepared to sell?

 

[vimhawk]

A Crap bit of writing aimed at 9 year olds, from Levy lovers brigade.

Very sad comment from one Spurs fan to another. "Levy lovers" is a hugely derogatory remark and not even true. Shall I deem everyone who offers any opinion different to the original poster as "Levy haters"?

 

[lennypops]

I think we've digressed from my point that I was trying to make to Lenny but funnily enough it's also demonstrated well what I was on about. You can believe what you want when it comes to transfer talk. Ultimately there's no concrete evidence for us fans to go on but you should be consistent in what represents proof to you. If you don't believe nearly every media outlet reporting that we were on the verge of signing Moutinho but the third party agreement meant we couldn't complete in time then how can then say that it wouldn't have happened because Levy wouldn't spend £24mill on a player. As in where did that £24mill figure come from if not media speculation?

Just for the record I can think of a number of reasons that the transfer didn't go through in January, a lot changed in 5 months like how Porto sold Hulk a few days later meaning they had not great need to sell, Holtby was signed and Ade went to ACON.



Again, how are you so sure he was trying to do it on the cheap? The bid could've been £13mill, £16mill, or £17mill from the headlines on the story that I've seen and Boss says it came down to a disagreement in payment structure.

In order for us to get into discussions about transfers we need to have a bit of faith in the media speculation, otherwise it's pointless, but there's a difference between that and paying attention to the stuff that you can put an anti-Levy spin on. You said you couldn't see any evidence that Levy was really serious about Moutinho(and Damiao) but surely the vast majority of the media reporting that we were close to making him a transfer record breaking signing is as much evidence as anything else you can come up with to the contrary?



Don't Chelsea have two strikers?

In response to the two highlighted bits:

I do believe pretty much anything that is a direct quote from a manager/chairman/director/player. And I believe that the chairman at Inter has previously said that our bids did not meet their valuation. And if, on the sixth successive window, or whatever it is, you're still putting in offers that are not financially acceptable, well you're taking the piss/time-wasting/hoping for a miracle. You are most certainly not doing what is necessary to get the deal done. Oh - and you're doing it on the last day of the window.

I agree a little with what you're saying with regards to believing at least some of the stuff we read/hear and not cherry-picking. But for me this comes down strictly to believing direct quotes. And all the direct quotes from Inter and from AVB all make it clear that money was the problem and then there was no more time. When you know months in advance that the window closes on the 31st the excuse basically boils down to "didn't want to pay enough soon enough". And we had a fantastic insight into how much they value him - Levy's specialist subject on Mastermind could be "the types of offers that Internacional will find unacceptable for their striker Damiao". And yet we keep making more!

And yes - Chelsea do have two strikers. Good spot. Thought of going through the squads of every team before typing that. Three responses: 1) Maybe this is one of those "exceptions that proves the rule" moments. It is notable because of how ludicrous and rare it is generally. 2) Chelsea are a bit **** nowadays, aren't they? Considering the hundreds and hundreds of millions spent on them they're nowhere near challenging for the title. I wonder how happy Chelsea fans are with their current strike options? 3) Chelsea's midfield is full of goals in a way ours is not. Hazard, Mata, Lampard, Oscar...we have Bale and, three or four times a year, Lennon scoring for us from midfield. Hopefully Holtby might change that.

I'm not a Levy-hater. This club is in a much better position now than it was when he took over. And we're punching well above our weight, considering the money available to our rivals (something that was very true when Harry said it and got crucified by some). But I just think that we've missed several chances to pay reasonable amounts for a very good striker, something we very much need. Two is not enough, especially when one is carrying a knock and one is away on international duty.

 

[Boss]

I think we've digressed from my point that I was trying to make to Lenny but funnily enough it's also demonstrated well what I was on about. You can believe what you want when it comes to transfer talk. Ultimately there's no concrete evidence for us fans to go on but you should be consistent in what represents proof to you. If you don't believe nearly every media outlet reporting that we were on the verge of signing Moutinho but the third party agreement meant we couldn't complete in time then how can then say that it wouldn't have happened because Levy wouldn't spend £24mill on a player. As in where did that £24mill figure come from if not media speculation?

Just for the record I can think of a number of reasons that the transfer didn't go through in January, a lot changed in 5 months like how Porto sold Hulk a few days later meaning they had not great need to sell, Holtby was signed and Ade went to ACON.

That was the fee mentioned by Porto, as to what they would accept, so as your saying you believe a fee was agreed, I'm saying I don't believe Levy would pay that amount for a top level player and also agree to a top level contract.

I rarely pay attention to rumours, as I tend to only listen to certain correspondents who I believe are relying correct information and if you look at the transfers Porto make, in terms of selling, they are a club which demand high level fees, always have done as they look to maximise the highest possible fee possible.

As for the Damaio saga, again I could be wrong and shown faith in the wrong correspondent, if I have then shame on me! but I try to be sensible with how I "believe" certain factors and it would make sense that we failed to sign him because of a disagreement in payment and the Brazil club wanted a large fee upfront, while we tried to put together a deal which revolved around instalments

However YV, I do accept none of us can be 100% sure, and yes I guess we all cherry pick certain aspects, but that is what fans do, we have a opinion and when a respected person repeats your view, then you tend to believe what they say, which is why on this instance we share different views.

Also I'm not doubting Villas Boas, as he doesn't make the deal and only goes by what Levy provides in terms of how a deal is to be structured, yet to make a club record purchase and agree to a club record contract within minutes of the deadline day ending (last summer) would seem strange to me, and another reason why I doubt Levy was serious about signing the player.

 

[Sidney Fiddler]

Very sad comment from one Spurs fan to another. "Levy lovers" is a hugely derogatory remark and not even true. Shall I deem everyone who offers any opinion different to the original poster as "Levy haters"?

I apologise , I didn't wish to offend you. My rant was aimed at Ian Beck who had written the article. There has been a 2 to 3 pieces like this
since the bulls up in the transfer window. IMHO they tell us nothing and are not objective but that's my silly opinion.
I agree we have moved forward under Levy some what but we have reached the end of the road , for the last 3 years we have been treading water
with no desire to push on. This I find frustrating as we all know they have no real love for our club (profit on sell, fat cats).
For me Spurs is about Glory , nothing else, as this is becoming a distance memory, I am revolting.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Comolli spent our money like confetti, its the one thing i understand from Levy's side of things, but being the polar opposite isn't helping either.

 

[The RDBD]

"Comolli spent our money like confetti, its the one thing i understand from Levy's side of things,
but being the polar opposite isn't helping either."

What Internacional wanted up front was too much for what the club has in the
kitty, and for the inherent risk in Damiao actually being rubbish in the PL.

There could/should have been other targets, but as been said often enough, the current
Spurs scouting network is effectively non-existent.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

And yes - Chelsea do have two strikers. Good spot. Thought of going through the squads of every team before typing that. Three responses: 1) Maybe this is one of those "exceptions that proves the rule" moments. It is notable because of how ludicrous and rare it is generally. 2) Chelsea are a bit **** nowadays, aren't they? Considering the hundreds and hundreds of millions spent on them they're nowhere near challenging for the title. I wonder how happy Chelsea fans are with their current strike options? 3) Chelsea's midfield is full of goals in a way ours is not. Hazard, Mata, Lampard, Oscar...we have Bale and, three or four times a year, Lennon scoring for us from midfield. Hopefully Holtby might change that.

I'm not a Levy-hater. This club is in a much better position now than it was when he took over. And we're punching well above our weight, considering the money available to our rivals (something that was very true when Harry said it and got crucified by some). But I just think that we've missed several chances to pay reasonable amounts for a very good striker, something we very much need. Two is not enough, especially when one is carrying a knock and one is away on international duty.

My point was that we're not the only club in the top 4 with 2 strikers. Of course we wanted a new striker and it's disappointing we missed out but this isn't some ridiculous position we've put ourselves in that no other top club would ever do, like you were claiming. Personally I think we should've gone for the cheap quick fix, like we did with Dempsey but I can understand why they were not keen to do that and instead go for the long term target.

The situation isn't as bad as some people are making it out to be though, we've survived the majority of the season with those 2 strikers and Ade being missing for awhile and if it was that bad of a situation then we wouldn't be 4th. For me the main thing to get sorted this window was backup for Dembele because without him we were **** so with bringing Holtby in I'm hopeful that has been solved becuase relying heavily on a player is a sure way to make sure they are overplayed and start picking up injuries and losing form. My worry is that someone out of Holtby, Dempsey and Sigurdsson may be seen as backup for left wing, as AVB has let Falque and Townsend leave but I don't want to see Lewis become a utility man and I don't want to see Dempsey or Sig out there as they're no good on the left wing.

 

[SpursDisciple]

Exactly.Can someone explain please?How can you make a loss and still have money?

Difference between Income and Wealth. In the last year we didn't add to our wealth - in fact we lost a bit of it, but doesn't mean we have no any money.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

If the club ran out of time then that also speaks very poorly of them doesn't it? I mean Jan 31st was always going to be the day after Jan 30th wasn't it?

What a shame that in both of the last couple of windows Spurs' two biggest transfer deals by far have only just run out of time. That's just so unlucky. Here's hoping that there are 40 days in August this year so Spurs aren't so HORRIBLY unlucky again.

Not necessarily - in the case of Leandro, negotiations weren't didn't involve three parties (Spurs, Internacional, Leandro) but also several third parties who also own a stake in him that want to make a fast buck from their asset.

 

[vimhawk]

I apologise , I didn't wish to offend you. My rant was aimed at Ian Beck who had written the article. There has been a 2 to 3 pieces like this
since the bulls up in the transfer window. IMHO they tell us nothing and are not objective but that's my silly opinion.
I agree we have moved forward under Levy some what but we have reached the end of the road , for the last 3 years we have been treading water
with no desire to push on. This I find frustrating as we all know they have no real love for our club (profit on sell, fat cats).
For me Spurs is about Glory , nothing else, as this is becoming a distance memory, I am revolting.

Point taken, I realise what you mean now. I know we all want the best for Spurs.