5 years from now....

[Spurlock]

Morning Peoples

Following on from my comment in the City v Spurs match thread considering our future under Levy.

Where do you think we should be in 5 years time, where do you think we will be in 5 years time. Will our Golden generation have filtered into other clubs strengthening them so they can win leagues? What kind of finances will our new life at our new stadium offer us as far as our team on the pitch is concerned? I'm getting a bit tired of trying to win the Net spend league every season. I feel as though we have become a club firmly fixated with being the nearly men and I'm not comfortable with that. The demeanour of our performance on Sunday disturbed me. I feel as though we are just happy to lap up the hyperbole surrounding our potential but we are not kicking on with the intensity that I expected. Personally I think it was bad timing for us regarding the stadium move as that is 2 years minimum of transitions and in the meantime we will lose our star players who are hitting their peaks. To be fair a few already seem to be waning, Alli for example. Yes he's young...but I don't think he will stick around to hit the next level with us. As a club I dont think we have done enough to push on from the last 2 years.

Levy's transfer dealings will cost us in the long run because considering the tight ship that we are...he has blown a lot of money on average dross. I don't get the logic of paying 60 mill for 2 average players on 70/80k a week when I'd rather have one quality signing for 60 mill on 120/30k a week. I don't get the logic in wasting 20 mill on some potential signing that the rest of us can tell is a bit 'meh' when that 20 mill is better spent split up on wages and keeping what is arguably our best squad in a long time, happy.

Like I said the other day...I appreciate the work Levy has done...but I don't want to stand still for the next decade lapping up the new stadium like we should be glad that we have got one.

Plus it's obvious we have got some seriously **** scouts out there. The structure needs a shake up if you ask me...I'm sensing too much of a comfort zone with us. A few quality signings would have elevated us this year instead of a few freebies and squad fillers.

Maybe I'm not seeing the 'bigger bigger picture'..and I'm stuck at the 'bigger picture' level.

 

[SpursDisciple]

Morning Peoples

Following on from my comment in the City v Spurs match thread considering our future under Levy.

Where do you think we should be in 5 years time, where do you think we will be in 5 years time. Will our Golden generation have filtered into other clubs strengthening them so they can win leagues? What kind of finances will our new life at our new stadium offer us as far as our team on the pitch is concerned? I'm getting a bit tired of trying to win the Net spend league every season. I feel as though we have become a club firmly fixated with being the nearly men and I'm not comfortable with that. The demeanour of our performance on Sunday disturbed me. I feel as though we are just happy to lap up the hyperbole surrounding our potential but we are not kicking on with the intensity that I expected. Personally I think it was bad timing for us regarding the stadium move as that is 2 years minimum of transitions and in the meantime we will lose our star players who are hitting their peaks. To be fair a few already seem to be waning, Alli for example. Yes he's young...but I don't think he will stick around to hit the next level with us. As a club I dont think we have done enough to push on from the last 2 years.

Levy's transfer dealings will cost us in the long run because considering the tight ship that we are...he has blown a lot of money or average dross. I don't get the logic of paying 60 mill for 2 average players on 70/80k a week when I'd rather have one quality signing for 60 mill on 120/30k a week. I don't get the logic in wasting 20 mill on some potential signing that the rest of us can tell is a bit 'meh' when that 20 mill is better spent split up on wages and keeping what is arguably our best squad in a long time, happy.

Like I said the other day...I appreciate the work Levy has done...but I don't want to stand still for the next decade lapping up the new stadium like we should be glad that we have got one.

Plus it's obvious we have got some seriously **** scouts out there. The structure needs a shake up if you ask me...I'm sensing too much of a comfort zone with us. A few quality signings would have elevated us this year instead of a few freebies and squad fillers.

Maybe I'm not seeing the 'bigger bigger picture'..and I'm stuck at the 'bigger picture' level.

Blimey, someone got out of bed the wrong side (probably not your own )

A few points. You seem to be skating around the name Sissoko, but I'll just say it. Like you I don't understand spending that amount of money on someone without anything special in his locker. He's not a great passer, tackler, dribbler. If it wasn't for his shooting...... However he wears our shirt and lately seems to give his all so my criticism starts and ends with what I have just said.

As for our scouts, they got Alli, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dembele, Lloris, Dier, Wanyama so we have some who know what they are doing. The fact that all of those are either injured or hopelessly out of form at the moment can't be laid at the feet of the scouts - we know each of these are terrific players and we need the coaching staff/medics to get them back to their best (or moved on) asap.

The big picture for me is that we've taken a small step back this year but our movement in general is forward over the last 3 years. All the things that have gone right are still in place. We need one cup to make us the top team that we know we are.

Our misfortune is that there are a few teams that can spend at a rate that we simply cannot. Man City are an incredible team at the moment and in no circumstances could I see us dropping 2 points from 17/18 games. If we were at WHL I am confident we would be alongside Utd and Chelsea at the moment, but the Wembley effect (effectively playing every game away from home) has contributed to our poor form.

And I say poor form when there have been 1 or 2 games even in this season that have been stunning. Liverpool, Real etc.

With the new stadium we will be able to match Liverpool and Arsenal's spending and with this manager I am confident that we can gain more points than them in such circumstances. Kane, Winks, Onomah, Sanchez, Davies, Dier, Lamela, Vertonghen, Lloris, Wanyama are the core players that we need to keep. Rose can **** off and I am resigned to losing Alderweireld, Eriksen and Alli (though I'd happily keep all if my suspicion that they are unhappy is wrong). Most importantly Pochettino needs to complete his project. With the purse string loosened and the new WHL being the envy of the league then I still think we will be successful. Arsenal successful (FA Cups, top 4 etc) not City successful, but playing top football and competing in most competitions we enter. Need top 4 this year. May be a struggle.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

We need to keep doing what we're doing, but make a few adjustments with our transfers and youth academy, in my opinion.
We can't compete financially with the teams around us, so a consistent flow of youngsters is essential.
We've made a move back to loaning out those on the verge and I think that we need to do it more often and establish some reliable connections.
It's worked well in the past when we've had clubs and managers that we know are going to use our loanees, as long as they apply themselves.

The squad needs to be looked at in greater detail, for me.
Things like having enough homegrown and club trained players for Europe is relatively simple, yet largely overlooked.
Using the U23s to get players back to full fitness and give new players game time is also straightforward, but rarely happens.
The likes of Foyth, Walker-Peters, Lamela, Llorente and N'Koudou would all have benefited from it this season, in my opinion.

Our first XI is generally good enough to compete. Our squad depth is lacking a little.

 

[Spurlock]

Blimey, someone got out of bed the wrong side (probably not your own )

A few points. You seem to be skating around the name Sissoko, but I'll just say it. Like you I don't understand spending that amount of money on someone without anything special in his locker. He's not a great passer, tackler, dribbler. If it wasn't for his shooting...... However he wears our shirt and lately seems to give his all so my criticism starts and ends with what I have just said.

As for our scouts, they got Alli, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dembele, Lloris, Dier, Wanyama so we have some who know what they are doing. The fact that all of those are either injured or hopelessly out of form at the moment can't be laid at the feet of the scouts - we know each of these are terrific players and we need the coaching staff/medics to get them back to their best (or moved on) asap.

The big picture for me is that we've taken a small step back this year but our movement in general is forward over the last 3 years. All the things that have gone right are still in place. We need one cup to make us the top team that we know we are.

Our misfortune is that there are a few teams that can spend at a rate that we simply cannot. Man City are an incredible team at the moment and in no circumstances could I see us dropping 2 points from 17/18 games. If we were at WHL I am confident we would be alongside Utd and Chelsea at the moment, but the Wembley effect (effectively playing every game away from home) has contributed to our poor form.

And I say poor form when there have been 1 or 2 games even in this season that have been stunning. Liverpool, Real etc.

With the new stadium we will be able to match Liverpool and Arsenal's spending and with this manager I am confident that we can gain more points than them in such circumstances. Kane, Winks, Onomah, Sanchez, Davies, Dier, Lamela, Vertonghen, Lloris, Wanyama are the core players that we need to keep. Rose can **** off and I am resigned to losing Alderweireld, Eriksen and Alli (though I'd happily keep all if my suspicion that they are unhappy is wrong). Most importantly Pochettino needs to complete his project. With the purse string loosened and the new WHL being the envy of the league then I still think we will be successful. Arsenal successful (FA Cups, top 4 etc) not City successful, but playing top football and competing in most competitions we enter. Need top 4 this year. May be a struggle.

Thanks for that clarification SD....my points might be against the grain but they are valid. We should be allowed to ask questions and yes we have wasted some serious amount of money on dross and infuriates me. Plus it's still annoying me that we didn't even give City a game.

Pissed me right off Infact.

 

[NSIS]

This is Spurs we’re talking about. So the answer has to be, **** knows!..

 

[deedub93]

Jesus, Donna, did she refuse to suck it or just have a headache and then bogard the spliff? Rome wasn't built in a day matey, Levy will sell us, but only when we are champions, he will get the best return then.

 

[SpursDisciple]

Thanks for that clarification SD....my points might be against the grain but they are valid. We should be allowed to ask questions and yes we have wasted some serious amount of money on dross and infuriates me. Plus it's still annoying me that we didn't even give City a game.

Pissed me right off Infact.

Wouldn't call it a clarification, just a slightly different slant on it. But you make a lot of good points. What really shines through is that you are a proper Spurs man and losing in the way we did against City (and even worse Arsenal) hurts. It hurts because we care and I share that feeling totally. A good thread by the way, a different way to discuss being a Spurs fan.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

A few quality signings would have elevated us this year instead of a few freebies and squad fillers.

Just wanted to address this bit directly, as I feel it's a problem for us that'll be around for a while.
We can't really bring in big players in a lot of positions, as they know that they won't be starting very often.
Morata's comments about Kane summed this up, for me.

There are positions that we can strengthen, but there are quite a few where we basically have to bring in either prospects or squad players.
Someone like Son's not even guaranteed a start when everyone's fit and he scored 21 goals in all competitions last season.
A holding midfielder, a centre-half or a striker, for example, are going to be on the bench most weeks, at best.
This is where we might be best off bringing in a few Naybet and Davids like signings or going for youngsters, like Sessegnon.

 

[Spurlock]

Jesus, Donna, did she refuse to suck it or just have a headache and then bogard the spliff? Rome wasn't built in a day matey, Levy will sell us, but only when we are champions, he will get the best return then.

Yeah maybe Dee..ill treat myself to some fresh stuff and

 

[Citizen Kane]

You raise some great points Dona, nothing like a bit of soul-searching ahead of the new year

First things first, casting my mind back a similar period of time watching the likes of Cheery cheese and Naughton under Interim Tim and there is no way I would've predicted we'd be here 4 seasons on.

ENIC's intentions have always been enigmatic. Whilst Lewis and Levy are childhood supporters of the club, they are businessmen first and foremost. My gut feeling has always been that their intention all along was to develop the academy, build a new training facility (so good that England use it to train) and rebuild the stadium, then sell up. The NFL franchise hints to short-term profit at the same time as attracting long-term investment from across the drink. Lewis' business ties in the states are well known and it wouldn't surprise me if in 5 years from now he and Levy have sold their controlling stakes to an NFL bigwig whilst retaining a degree of control over the daily affairs of the club. Levy in particular seems to just love his job and I don't see him stepping down as chairman any time soon. If anything, it may actually be a blessing if he's spending someone else's money!

I tend to agree that the stadium build came a year or two too soon. I firmly believe we could've won the title at the Lane. But then I think about all the things that have happened beyond our control - City spending £200m, Wanyama and Toby getting injured - and I wonder if staying at the Lane would've made such a difference.

The reality is that for the foreseeable future we won't be anywhere near financially competitive with the big guns. To this end, more Diers and fewer Sissokos has to be a priority. I refuse to accept the argument that Chelsea and City hoover up all the young talent. There are more Allis out there, it's a matter of looking hard enough and employing the right people to look.

As I said after the City match, I am already bracing myself for a bit of an exodus this summer. The comfort is that we'll be bringing in eye-watering fees for any first team player who leaves. Even most of our back ups would fetch £20m+. With a new stadium, hopefully CL football and a manager renowned for giving young players a chance, we are in far better shape to recruit replacements than we were the summer we lost Bale, VDV, Gallas and Defoe.

 

[SpursDisciple]

You raise some great points Dona, nothing like a bit of soul-searching ahead of the new year

First things first, casting my mind back a similar period of time watching the likes of Cheery cheese and Naughton under Interim Tim and there is no way I would've predicted we'd be here 4 seasons on.

ENIC's intentions have always been enigmatic. Whilst Lewis and Levy are childhood supporters of the club, they are businessmen first and foremost. My gut feeling has always been that their intention all along was to develop the academy, build a new training facility (so good that England use it to train) and rebuild the stadium, then sell up. The NFL franchise hints to short-term profit at the same time as attracting long-term investment from across the drink. Lewis' business ties in the states are well known and it wouldn't surprise me if in 5 years from now he and Levy have sold their controlling stakes to an NFL bigwig whilst retaining a degree of control over the daily affairs of the club. Levy in particular seems to just love his job and I don't see him stepping down as chairman any time soon. If anything, it may actually be a blessing if he's spending someone else's money!

I tend to agree that the stadium build came a year or two too soon. I firmly believe we could've won the title at the Lane. But then I think about all the things that have happened beyond our control - City spending £200m, Wanyama and Toby getting injured - and I wonder if staying at the Lane would've made such a difference.

The reality is that for the foreseeable future we won't be anywhere near financially competitive with the big guns. To this end, more Diers and fewer Sissokos has to be a priority. I refuse to accept the argument that Chelsea and City hoover up all the young talent. There are more Allis out there, it's a matter of looking hard enough and employing the right people to look.

As I said after the City match, I am already bracing myself for a bit of an exodus this summer. The comfort is that we'll be bringing in eye-watering fees for any first team player who leaves. Even most of our back ups would fetch £20m+. With a new stadium, hopefully CL football and a manager renowned for giving young players a chance, we are in far better shape to recruit replacements than we were the summer we lost Bale, VDV, Gallas and Defoe.

All good points except "the summer we lost Bale, VDV, Gallas and Defoe". VDV was 2012, Bale and Gallas 2013 and JD 2014. I've heard of a long hot summer, but that is ridiculous

 

[Citizen Kane]

All good points except "the summer we lost Bale, VDV, Gallas and Defoe". VDV was 2012, Bale and Gallas 2013 and JD 2014. I've heard of a long hot summer, but that is ridiculous

You're right about VDV my mistake he went at the same time as Modric didn't he?

But I could've sworn the rest went in the same window? Huddlestone also left iirc. Truth is that was such a mental summer with Baldini pissing all over every bonfire he could get his schlong to it wouldn't surprise me if I've got a bit muddled.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

You're right about VDV my mistake he went at the same time as Modric didn't he?

But I could've sworn the rest went in the same window? Huddlestone also left iirc. Truth is that was such a mental summer with Baldini pissing all over every bonfire he could get his schlong to it wouldn't surprise me if I've got a bit muddled.

The Baldini Splurge was in 2013

 

[Blue and White]

Morning Peoples

Levy's transfer dealings will cost us in the long run because considering the tight ship that we are...he has blown a lot of money on average dross. I don't get the logic of paying 60 mill for 2 average players on 70/80k a week when I'd rather have one quality signing for 60 mill on 120/30k a week. I don't get the logic in wasting 20 mill on some potential signing that the rest of us can tell is a bit 'meh' when that 20 mill is better spent split up on wages and keeping what is arguably our best squad in a long time, happy.

We need squad depth. If said 60 mill gets injured , we don't have back-up. We have players who are worth a lot more than 60. That is not the solution.
Your £itys and Chelski buy 2x 60 mill players and then they are happy to sit on the bench.

 

[Dier Hard]

Good thread bro.

I'm of the opinion the club is moving in the right direction, going in that direction seems to take a while and we've definitely hit a number of bumps along the way (this years' being Wembley) but I'm happy with how things are moving, although trophies are long overdue and it's annoying at how we seem to still devalue cup competitions, this has been a thing since Redknapp's days.

In five years time I'd like to think we can become a major force and a team who not only competes for honours but wins them. We have a lot going for us - state of the art training facilities, brand new stadium on the way, increased investment and a successful youth system that is continuously throwing one or two players each season into the first team picture and while we're speaking of first team lets not forget, we have some excellent players that can play in any side in world football. We also have an excellent young manager, he has his faults and mistakes but he's been a real shining light for the club and providing he gets backed, I think he can bring some great times for the club.

 

[PowerSpurs]

...we have wasted some serious amount of money on dross and infuriates me.

This is almost inevitable. If half our signings were successful we would be doing incredibly well.

 

[Spurf]

I watch football for pleasure I support Spurs for personal historic reasons but I was happy to realise that Spurs unlike many top pro sides have an ethic about playing attractive football. That confirmed to me that I had chosen the right team to support. That ethic has, amazingly continued until the present day. Here we are 2017 with Spurs still trying to play attractive football and with the highest number of English players of any top club. The new stadium with Levy behind it promises to deliver an amazing experience for fans lucky enough to both be able to afford and live somewhere within reach of it.
What I find slightly demoralising is the constant talk of money from fans. I know it's a professional game and money effects the outcome of seasons and cups but personally I am not following Spurs as a business I am following them as an entertainment. If I go to listen to live music I am not interested in how much the players earn or whether they may leave for more money elsewhere and that's the same with any form of entertainment. I have run businesses for a living, football is for fun.
So where we are right now is good. We have a young intelligent manager who is also clearly a decent bloke, we have a Chairman who IMO has only ever done what he sees as best for the club. We have a squad full of young talent and an academy set up that is working.
So enjoy the games, enjoy where we are and look forward to where we will be playing and a bright prospect for the team just as long as Pochettino continues his success.

On the other hand I would be worried and depressed if I had chosen all those years ago to support Chelsea or Man City. Their souls have been bought and sold, if they win things I say so what! it means nothing they are just buying their way to a fake glory.

Spurlock just think yourself lucky that you support a team that still has it's heart and it's soul and don't underestimate the achievements in the last 3 years and hopefully look forward to more exciting games in the future. The key is to enjoy the games as they happen because that is what it is all about.

 

[SpursDisciple]

I watch football for pleasure I support Spurs for personal historic reasons but I was happy to realise that Spurs unlike many top pro sides have an ethic about playing attractive football. That confirmed to me that I had chosen the right team to support. That ethic has, amazingly continued until the present day. Here we are 2017 with Spurs still trying to play attractive football and with the highest number of English players of any top club. The new stadium with Levy behind it promises to deliver an amazing experience for fans lucky enough to both be able to afford and live somewhere within reach of it.
What I find slightly demoralising is the constant talk of money from fans. I know it's a professional game and money effects the outcome of seasons and cups but personally I am not following Spurs as a business I am following them as an entertainment. If I go to listen to live music I am not interested in how much the players earn or whether they may leave for more money elsewhere and that's the same with any form of entertainment. I have run businesses for a living, football is for fun.
So where we are right now is good. We have a young intelligent manager who is also clearly a decent bloke, we have a Chairman who IMO has only ever done what he sees as best for the club. We have a squad full of young talent and an academy set up that is working.
So enjoy the games, enjoy where we are and look forward to where we will be playing and a bright prospect for the team just as long as Pochettino continues his success.

On the other hand I would be worried and depressed if I had chosen all those years ago to support Chelsea or Man City. Their souls have been bought and sold, if they win things I say so what! it means nothing they are just buying their way to a fake glory.

Spurlock just think yourself lucky that you support a team that still has it's heart and it's soul and don't underestimate the achievements in the last 3 years and hopefully look forward to more exciting games in the future. The key is to enjoy the games as they happen because that is what it is all about.

Largely agree with this. However the money matters in football in a way that it doesn't in music as your favourite guitarist is less likely to be lured from one band to another. And i can love more than one band.

 

[The RDBD]

...
What I find slightly demoralising is the constant talk of money from fans. I know it's a professional game and money effects the outcome of seasons and cups but personally I am not following Spurs as a business I am following them as an entertainment.

Since the Scholar nightmare I suggest Spurs supporters at
least try to have a BASIC understanding of how the club
operates as a business.

Once you have that understanding, only utter morons keep
their speaking holes spouting about what the club should be
doing on transfer fees + wage bills etc.

 

[Spurf]

Largely agree with this. However the money matters in football in a way that it doesn't in music as your favourite guitarist is less likely to be lured from one band to another. And i can love more than one band.

SD of course money matters in football (sadly) but it doesn't mean it has to matter to me. I would love it if you could only play for Spurs if you come from 5 miles around the ground and the same for all the other clubs. Then we would have a truly interesting set of leagues with all teams in with a chance. Never going to happen of course and I happen to support the 12th richest club in the world so money is a huge factor but as with, say Man United or Liverpool their wealth is largely generated by their support.

And here you are getting me talking about money FFS