DPJ: It’s one thing to debate, but could you possibly more condescending? I doubt it. No need for it at all. Like I said you really can't help yourself. OK, your points: 1: DNA: Firstly the study was of 2000 people across the whole of the U.K. We can therefore safely assume that the number of Welsh people actually in the survey was comparatively small. Not a good start. Any good researcher will tell you that to get credibility, any research needs a large sample size. Also, it only studied people in rural areas so again that excludes most of us. I note you didn’t respond to Poshminx when she asked if you’d read the research as opposed to the BBC report. I think I know the answer. Even if you go along with it, big deal there are genetically different traits between the English and the Welsh IF you are a pure-bred Celt (there won’t be many of those left). In your case, the 19th Century was the blink of an eye ago re your ancestors I never said there were not genetic differences. I said that our nature and culture are the same and we have the same behavioural traits. That’s patently true. My son has just come back from Southampton and said when he when he went out on Saturday it was exactly like Wind Street with decent people about as well as head-cases that were throwing bricks at each other across the road. ie chavvy behaviour that sadly us Brits are known for. You rarely see this overseas. As for the Welsh language, yes it’s a distinctive feature, but when 1 in 5 people speak it in these parts, that can hardly be held up as a shining beacon of a distinct culture despite the best efforts of the authorities and minorities to ram it down our throats at every opportunity. Welsh FIRST on signs? What’s that all about? “the latest Scientific evidence states that the Welsh genetic pool, is by in large untouched!” No. The study didn’t say that, thank goodness. Sounds almost Aryan. See above re the value of this data. ‘Not representative’ is being kind. 2: Dislike of ‘Germanics’. Why you say you don’t have a problem with English or Germans is laughable. You obviously do. I can only assume you don’t want to come across as a bigot. 3: Historically we are a distinct people but over time those differences have been eroded due to a communal education system that has been universally poor. We share the same values, environment and popular culture. We’re not that different to our “Germanic’ neighbours that you so detest. Different, maybe, but not by much. Makes me laugh that in fact you are a hairsbreadth away from the very people you don’t like! 4: Lastly, you make the point that “the Welsh didn't oppress the English neither did they start the Empire building, no did they gas the Jews, and no did they sell the toxic ingredients to Syria,” How long ago was it that the Welsh were “oppressed”? It’s just that kind of drivel that perpetuates those daft marches and the violence that follows them in Northern Ireland. Let it ****ing go, people! Likewise, the people who gassed the jews are almost all dead. Or should generations of Germans have to be burdened with that? The Welsh had a huge part to play in building the British Empire, including the bad aspects of that. Or do you think Welsh soldiers, engineers and so on conscientiously objected? Likewise, it was us Brits that sold chemicals to Saddam which he promptly used on his own people. To make out the Welsh are a pure race without flaws is patent claptrap. In fact it’s perversely that sort of thinking that led to the rise of nationalism in (yes you’ve guessed it) – Germany!. Always happy to debate politely.
KJ, you are quite correct about the Welsh not covering themselves in glory with regard to Empire, some of the biggest slave owners in the early USA were Welsh.
Didn't the Welsh also slaughter many Franchise when acting as mercenaries at Crecy and Agincourt. Even the English were disturbed at the atrocities of our saint like ancestors.
guys. At least I'm not in a minority of one. Gendros - it was the Welsh archers at Agincourt I believe. Yet another war that we've fought alongside our neighbours.
Remember when your feeling very small and insecure how amazingly unlikely is your birth, and pray that theres intelligent life somewhere up in space cause theres bugger all down here on earth !
The scientific study only confirms what we already know, people from the Welsh valleys will shag there mothers. In the urban areas however we are very much like the rest of the UK and there is little to no difference in culture, even to the point that we all speak the English language first.
KJ Thank you for saving me the effort of explaining the problem of taking a working hypothesis & calling it fact.
English is my 2nd language and I know I'm not alone on this board. The English trying to eradicate my language is something I can never truly forgive them for. Perhaps I should but my feelings on this run very deep. My choice of action is to educate them rather than detest them for it as I know that no English person alive is responsible for the treason of the blue books. As for culture, well there is plenty of Welsh literature, poetry etc. It's not my cup of tea being honest but it's still there. There's still plenty of people attending the National and Urdd Eisteddfod and we still get plenty of overseas visitors to Llangollen for the international one. Going back to the op and one GB team just ask yourselves this. Imagine being in the stadium and the crowd stand up for the national anthems would you sing the words to God Save the Queen ? Well just like our players in the Olympics I would not. That's not me being disrespectful I wouldn't sing any other countries national anthem. Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau only for me
KJ the signs should be written in Welsh. After all it is the mother language of our country. As for being rammed down the throats of people dont nake me laugh. All the authorities have ever tried to do is kill our language, something I too will never forgive them for. The trouble is that English speaking schools in wales only study english history. Maybe you should study our own history and you might understand why some posters such as mabon, phill and myself hold different views on certain subjects.
Interesting point Gendros. Indeed, I have a German friend and colleague (a geologist and amateur archaeologist) who has a theory that the Celts were amongst the original ethnic cleansers. The Celts originated somewhere near the Caucasus mountains in southern Russia and moved across Europe to where they ended up. He maintains that there is archeological evidence of pottery artifacts in middle Europe that disappeared for some hundreds of years and then re-appeared....suggesting that marauding Celts moved though and destroyed the original capability.
Some here would refuse to believe that historical fact, FB Couple of things on the Welsh language. How about a hand grenade into the debate? I respect every person's right to learn it and speak Welsh. Even to educate their children in Welsh. But it is a minority language in Wales as a whole and should be treated as such, even though I recognise that Welsh is given equal status in law. However, in our part of the world it's only around 19% that speak it. Yet it is given priority ahead of English on road signs, banks, shops and supermarkets. This is wrong imo. By all means have bilingual signs but why give a minority language priority ahead of the main language of our country? I know this is controversial but imo this has happened because the authorities that Valley says have "tried to destroy" the language (no evidence of this in recent times, quite the opposite in fact) have bowed to a very vocal minority and political correctness whilst the majority of us English speakers have just taken it on the chin. Look at BBC Wales Today. An English language program where you'd think the Welsh language isn't required by its presenters and reporters. Yet practically every single presenter is a Welsh speaker (one is called Dafydd ap Gwilym) and many are obviously using English as a second language. This particularly applies to the outside broadcast field reporters. Just listen to them next time you watch the program. This is because the PC brigade at the Beeb these days insist their presenters speak Welsh before they are considered for the post. It's nonsense. Why is this an issue? Because purely English speakers, ie the vast majority of Welsh people, often feel marginalised and made to feel like second class citizens in their own country by not only the PC afficianados but by Welsh speaking snobs who look at you with disdain when you tell them you don't speak it and have no desire to do so. I realise not every Welsh speaker is like this (I've got some fantastic Welsh speaking friends) but I've experienced this in a social setting and quite a few times in professional life when in the presence of three Welsh speakers who knew I didn't speak it happily spoke Welsh to each other whilst discussing someting I should have been privy to. I am supposed to be tolerant and respect their right to speak Welsh yet there is no reciprocaction. Dilli: your comment "The English trying to eradicate my language is something I can never truly forgive them for" is frankly rather sad. Does it really bother you that much that in the mid 1800's (over 150 years ago) that this happened? As I said earlier it's that mentality that perpetuates the divisions in Northern Ireland. Such feelings only breed resentment and hatred. I also suspect most right thinking English people would heavily criticise what happened. Peace.
curious to know how many posters actually speak Welsh at home as opposed to English? i wish i could speak Scottish Gaelic
