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2YO Horses To Note 2019 Flat Season

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by Grendel, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    If there was something I didn't like about Al Suhail it was his fast scratchy action. You may have been counting your conkers at the distance but that sort of action is not suited to undulations. I'd keep a watching brief.
    The winner did little wrong and Tsar ran a promising race. I was as pleased with First Receiver as anything else. Stoute rarely has his staying 2yos fully wound up FTO. He got a bump at the start but recovered and travelled well. He was stretching out well in the last furlong and Murphy was hardly throwing everything at him. If he comes on from this he could be a decent animal, as I think this was a decent race.
     
    #61
  2. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    For me Daahyeh's problem was always going to be that she was facing faster fillies from the Queen Mary this time around. On one hand you might prefer the proven 6F form over the 5F form but Daahyeh had won on good to soft at Ascot and was running on good to firm this time. At the Royal meeting Varian's filly seemed to appreciate the relative test of stamina but was facing what looked like pure sprinting opposition this time around.

    Setting aside different tracks and exact distances, the intrinsic fact is that the Newmarket race was won in a time five seconds faster than Daahyeh's Albany victory.

    Looking forward the Prix Morny has become a graveyard for horses with Guineas aspirations. It has been a sprinter's race for some time now. Pretty Pollyanna won it last year and didn't succeed in stepping up in trip afterwards. She is dropped to 6F for the July Cup today but is 16/1 for that race, so the odds are against redemption this time anyway. The bad stats will probably not stop Raffle Prize going very short for the 1000 Guineas were she to land the Morny but history is against that scenario playing out with glory over 1 mile next Spring.
     
    #62
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  3. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Maybe a better view here
     
    #63
  4. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Tsar gave the winner a good 6l start and switched from one side of the track to the other, got to within about 3l of the winner when that one made his challenge and settled for 4th towards the finish. The winner looked quite powerful and I doubt Al Suhail will reverse the form anytime. IF I was to pick one of those for the Guineas, at this stage it would be Tsar, based solely on that performance and pedigree
     
    #64
  5. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Replay of that race here.
     
    #65
  6. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    Light Blush did it and did it well but I was impressed by the debut of the Bell filly Craylands. By Golden Horn out of a Motivator mare she showed admirable speed. Owned and bred by Bill Gredley it isn't surprising to see she traces back to his good mare Rostova. Rostova's most famous foal was the Oaks and Leger winner User Friendly. Craylands' granddam is a Zafonic half-sister to her, though she, Friendlier, was unraced. Craylands' dam ran only twice but picked up some placed black type.
    I don't think the race was as good as the colts version but Craylands could be a filly for good staying races next year.

    The Queen's filly ran OK. I was concerned with her flashing her tail in the early part of the race. She looked full of running 2 furlongs out but then was outpaced before running on. This is a family which shows distinct personality traits, even if sometimes quite talented. Will follow her next outing and hope for more quality than quirkiness.
     
    #66
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  7. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    I'll be on Al Suhail if he clashes with the Hannon horse again. He is bred to improve and as a £1.1 Million purchase I doubt they will have been pushing him for his debut race.

    The Racing Post assessor gave the winner 89 and Al Suhail 88, which are pretty decent first runs in maiden company. Looking down past Kipling in 5th, the next three were rated 74, 72 and 72, which leaves them a bit of catching up for races beyond maiden company this season. Kipling was rated 80, which is actually 2 lbs less than his debut run behind Lope Y Fernandez. That would be deemed disappointing for an O'Brien trained Galileo 2YO to regress on their second start. Normally they show improvement and sometimes quite marked improvement for that first run.

    The Queen's horse First Receiver is entered in the Epsom Derby but am I alone in thinking he lacks stamina on the Dam side for 12F next season?
     
    #67
  8. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    Looks like Threat goes for the Vintage at Goodwood, hopefully the Godolphin colt turns up as Threat would be my bet of the meeting against it.
     
    #68
  9. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    I'm sure you are not alone but it's worth looking at his pedigree. I suppose there's no problem on the sire side as New Approach not only won the Derby but has bred a Derby and Oaks winner.
    His dam Touchline only won once and that was a 6f maiden at Yarmouth. However back in 2014 there was a lot of noise about her before she ran, and on her first start she was well-backed for a (Glorious) Goodwood maiden. After this race a good judge of horse conformation felt her galloping style would limit her achievement. As a 3yo she was placed twice in two Listed races but did not win again. She was given a RPR of 105 (at best) and an OR of 97: so not a bad filly at all. You'd have to say she was a miler and that her sire Exceed and Excel had influenced her stamina.
    Touchline's dam was Trianon and was the last foal of an important broodmare called Trying for Gold (whose dam won the Ribblesdale). This mare was the dam of Phantom Gold (by Machiavellian) who won the Ribblesdale, amongst other races, and won over 13f. Trianon, by Nayef, was not as good as Phantom Gold (or a few other filly foals of Trying for Gold: Phantom Gold became the dam of Oaks 2nd Flight of Fancy by the way). Trianon eventually won over 16f and was fairly moderate. She didn't last long in the Royal Stud and was sold once Touchline was retired.
    So there is plenty of stamina on the dam's side. The question is which elements of First Receiver's pedigree will have the most influence on him. I'd say he has every chance of staying 10f being by a 12f horse out of an 8f mare. Whether he stays further will depend very much how much influence Exceed and Excel has on him. Time will tell. What class of horse he'll be is another story. I'd be pleasantly surprised if anyone ever mentioned a group race for him, let alone the Derby.
     
    #69
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  10. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    Richard Hannon has some decent yardsticks in the 2yo division this season and Man of The Night seems to be highly regarded. He was sent off 4/6 on debut and won easily in what didnt look the strongest of Newbury races, but you can expect plenty of improvement from that. Hes out of a daughter of the good French filly Mandesha and should improve for step up in trip.

    Royal Commando looks a nice sprinter for Charlie Hills, I liked his debut in a decent looking Newmarket novice, he looked the one to take from the race and he stepped up nicely on that when winning easily at Doncaster, showing a nice turn of foot to put the race to bed quickly. He should be a player in the good sprints this season.
     
    #70

  11. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Summer Romance is said to be going for the Prix Six Perfections next. The 7F Group 3 at Deauville was won by Beyond Reason last season.

    I thought they ran Beyond Reason too many times last season and on her 6th and 7th starts she looked like a filly who had had more than enough for the season. She didn't make it back to the track until the 6th of July this year and she was well beaten in a Listed race. Having won a Group 2 in France last year, Beyond Reason has looked nothing like that class in three races since.

    I can only hope that Godolphin don't over-race Summer Romance this season. One further race after the Prix Six Perfections would be sensible and then put her away with the 1000 Guineas in mind.
     
    #71
  12. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    Interesting runner from Sir Michael tomorrow. In the 7f 2yo opener he has a debutant called Oslo. He is by First Season Sire Gleneagles out of a full sister to Danehill, Banks Hill etc.. Admittedly so far she has been a relative failure at stud (has got the miler Abseil) but has so far only been bred in America to USA sires. Maybe the switch to Europe is what is needed. Has a tough task though with Gosden running a colt called Encipher who has already had one run (2nd).
     
    #72
  13. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    So Repartee returns today at Newbury for a 6f Listed race. The form has not worked out well on his debut but to my eye was mighty impressive. Tougher field today and the Haggas colt has won twice. He needs to win well to keep his billing.
     
    #73
  14. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    Poor performance ran as if it was his first outing. Not what he appeared. Overrated by not only me as he started favourite.
     
    #74
  15. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Sorry Bustino, I put another 10lb on his back
     
    #75
  16. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Only caught up with Ultra Violet this morning. The Ed Vaughn trained daughter of Gleneagles was cheap enough at 55 Grand but she made quite a taking debut over 6F at Newmarket. Slowly away and in behind early on, she made good headway to get right into the thick of it as the race developed before going away to win comfortably by eight lengths. It was not necessarily a strong race but her RPR of 96 on debut is well above average and any improvement will put her into Group class. Entered at Ascot on Saturday she is likely to run according to the trainer's comments and she's interesting for me as a 2YO this season. She is not a big filly by any means and perhaps not a filly for next season but she looked really good on her sole start and she is worth a poke for Saturday's Group 2 at odds of 5/1 with the possibility that early favourite, Guineas market leader Summer Romance may go to Deauville on Saturday. Current odds show the Godolphin filly varying between 5/4 and 7/4 for Saturday, indicating the uncertainty over participation. Charlie Appleby had earlier indicated, as I said above, that the Prix Six Perfections was the likely target for Summer Romance.

    This was Ultra Violet's debut and it was hard not to be impressed by the way she tore her field to shreds:-

    http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/race-replays/3/95336/

    The biggest thing for me was how much she took out of her field in the final furlong. The margin of victory looked highly 2 furlongs out.
     
    #76
  17. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    Thats looking like a very poor field she has beaten Grendel and the time was 1.4 seconds slower than the 0-90 fillies handicap later on. Surely would have to step up big time to trouble Summer Romance? Rizeena won the Queen Mary and Summer Romance looks to have a lot of speed, the stiff 6f at Ascot would be perfect for her just now and surely the lure of a winner on King George day at Ascot is more tempting than a non event at Deauville.
     
    #77
  18. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    Wouldn’t worry about her size. She comes from a famous Boussac family and his horses were always well-made but never big.
     
    #78
  19. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Just going by Appleby's comments. He inferred that 7F was the aim and it's likely to be fast at Ascot if the Friday heatwave we are promised arrives. I always feel that staying at 6F in fast conditions can leave horses vulnerable to 5F speed coming up in trip.

    I find the times in maidens of little importance, especially when something wins as easily as Ultra Violet did. I am biased in wanting to see Summer Romance stepping up to 7F having hacked her at double carpet for next season's Guineas and one of the worries I always have is 2YO's sticking to 6F and turning out to be sprinters. We'll probably see it again this season with horses heading to the Prix Morny, the Lowther and the Middle Park and emerging as Guineas candidates when those races have been poison for the Guineas for quite some time now.

    As things stand Summer Romance has 11 lbs superiority on Racing Post Ratings, with 107 to 96 but Summer Romance was rated only 85 after her first race in a Class 5 Maiden, so improvement is always possible.

    It's all about personal opinions. For example, I thought A'Ali won a weak Prix Robert Papin and was not that impressive but the papers were screaming that he had stormed home and a lot of jeans seemed to be getting creamed in the media about it. As ever, the runner up at big odds was casually bumped up 11 lbs in the ratings and we move on.

    I thought French Rain made a decent start for Ger Lyons on Sunday past. I felt she was value for more than the ultimate margin and the daughter of Siyouni looked likely to enjoy an extra furlong soon. The Racing Post gave her a mediocre 85 rating, leaving runner up Blissful with the rather incongruous looking three runs of 60, 83, 77 which suggests that a filly came on 23 lbs from her first race and then receded by 6 lbs next time.
     
    #79
  20. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    the decs for that french race were 11.30 am this morning

    Godolphin website showing Summer Romance only entry at Ascot, 7/4 could be about to dissappear soon
     
    #80

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