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2023/2024 season.

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by SuffolkCanary, Jun 13, 2023.

  1. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    In his latest tactical analysis, Ben Lee has identified an important tweak in the way we've been transitioning out of defence into attack. Last year, we tended to push players forward too quickly, leaving Sara isolated in midfield.

    Attachment 1 - Pre-Season.jpg.article-620.jpg

    In preseason, however, the inverted wingers have been dropping back to support the forward pivot, Núñez or Sara, to prevent a quick counter if the ball is lost.

    Attachment 4 - Pre-Season.jpg.article-620.jpg

    This new 3-3-4 formation still has McLean dropping back between the CBs as the deep pivot, but the inverted wingers now move in just ahead of Sara as the FBs overlap. This leaves them ready to seize any attacking opportunities, but also ready to drop back with pace should the ball be lost and a counterattack occur. This allows a better balance between defence and attack. The four goals scored in the last two games suggests that the players are adapting well to the new approach without losing attacking capability. Let's hope that carries forward into the season opener.

    https://www.pinkun.com/news/23693589.norwich-city-canaries-transfer-business-wagners-approach/

    For those who don't subscribe to the Pinkun, the tactical analysis should eventually appear here along with all of the others.

    https://ncfcanalysis1.wixsite.com/ncfcanalysis/blog

    Edit: The analysis is now available on the website.
     
    #81
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2023
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  2. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    upload_2023-8-2_14-33-58.jpeg
    squad numbers for this season
     
    #82
  3. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    The Athletic have listed all incomings for each Chanpionship side. Some interesting additions to a few teams here.

    upload_2023-8-2_14-37-24.jpeg
     
    #83
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  4. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    They should include Kellen Fisher as well now that Wagner has declared him a first team player. He certainly seems to be one to watch.
     
    #84
  5. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Surprised how little most of the promoted/relegated teams have done. Southampton, Leeds, Leicester have 9 signings between them, and other than Leicester spending the Maddison/Barnes money (or at least a third of it) there aren't many big moves.

    At the other end, Plymouth are mainly getting the band back together from last season. Ipswich have done some reasonable business but the quantity isn't so high.
     
    #85
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  6. Bure budgie

    Bure budgie Well-Known Member

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    Or the quality
     
    #86
  7. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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  8. CitySlicker2010

    CitySlicker2010 Well-Known Member

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    What should fans expect from Mark Attanasio this season? As I understand it, he has a minority holding in NCFC.
     
    #88
  9. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Wagner press conference:
    -Tzolis likely leaving on loan, won't be replaced in squad
    -No news on Aarons or Rashica but neither will feature this weekend.
    -Sorensen still having injury issues, needs to see a specialist.
    -Sainz ahead of schedule with his injury
    -Tomkinson 2-3 weeks away
     
    #89
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  10. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Disappointed but not surprised that Tzolis is going out on loan. Hopefully a loan fee and then a couple of million perhaps next year. What Webber promised wouldn't happen again has happened, again. The Rashica and Tzolis money could have made such a difference if it had been spent better. Great news on the medical front with both Sainz and Tomkinson. Pity about Sørensen though.
     
    #90
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  11. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    With hindsight yes of course you are right no question about Tzolis and Rashica. However, at the time of signing Rashica was considered somewhat of a coup for a club the size of ours, he had decent pedigree in the Bundesliga - unfortunately it hasn't worked out. Tzolis was very highly rated and being tracked by several of the top 6 including Arsenal and Man Utd. I understand the frustration and feel it too, just as I imagine Webber does, but these "big money" signings for us are considered measly amounts by PL standards, often PL clubs will spend these amounts and it doesn't work out.
     
    #91
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  12. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I have a good friend who now lives in Bremen and supports Werder Bremen. He warned me that Rashica wasn't near PL quality and has a questionable attitude. He was also doubtful about Sargent but gave more slack because he was young and has a very positive attitude. Our season now hangs to a great extent on whether Sargent can step up a gear. The signs were good in pre-season, so fingers crossed.

    This from DW at the presser on the group was more positive: “I have been very rarely so confident about a group. The togetherness and unity is something I haven’t seen in the past, this is special. We have to show we can do it in competitive games. It’s too early to say where we’ll finish, I have a good feeling."
     
    #92
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2023
  13. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    By 'if it had of been spent better' you mean if things had turned out better. As I remember it most fans were pretty happy when we signed Rashica and Tzolis seeing them as great signings for a club like ours, now it hasn't worked out everyone one seems to be of the view that it was obvious it wouldn't work. In our financial situation there are no guaranteed successes.
     
    #93
  14. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I think most fans were delighted because they thought 'due diligence' had been applied to these choices. Webber was very critical of the £8m spent on Naismith, but seemed to have no qualms about around £30m spent on Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis, none of whom had any experience of the English leagues. It was a big gamble and it failed, which is why our budget is so limited now. Tzolis contributed next to nothing that season, Rashica contributed 1 goal and 3 assists. Sargent did more and at least put in fully commited performances in every game he played. Back then we trusted Webber and his 'due diligence', but that trust is harder to muster now.

    I'm more comfortable with the recruitment this season simply because we've strengthened the squad without breaking the bank. Barnes, Stacey and Duffy are all proven players in the English leagues. Unlike some people, I don't have high expectations of Sainz simply because I don't know, but on a free transfer, there seems little to lose. I'm hopeful of Fassnacht because he's well known to Wagner and has a proven record of goal scoring in a top league, but some time for adjustment may be required.
     
    #94
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2023
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  15. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    Due diligence is no guarantee of success though is it RER?
     
    #95
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  16. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    True, but at least it would explain the reasons for the choices made. I'm less convinced by the 'other teams were interested' rationale.
     
    #96
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  17. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    The Naismith scenario was almost a polar opposite deal to the Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis deal. Can't see the logic in linking the 2. Just because a signing didn't work out it doesn't necessarily follow the 'due diligence' wasn't done or was flawed. I would suggest the younger the player the less information there is available to do 'due diligence' on and because they are still developing as players and people it's much harder to predict how things will go. As I remember it Tzolis was purchased very much with the future in mind, Rashica and Sargent were more half an eye on the future, with potential to make an immediate impact. Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis are still young and still have the potential to go on to be great players. I suspect when all 3 eventually leave us the financial impact will be less than the Naismith affair. Harry Kane's loan to us was seen as a club failure, but didn't seen to harm his long term development. Neither Sara or Nunez had experience of English football, so perhaps we shouldn't have signed them.
     
    #97
  18. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I was concerned about the €10.5m we spent on Sara, but after a period of settling in, he developed into last year's POTS justifying the fee, just as as Núñez did his smaller fee. Both have excellent attitudes and are signings Webber can be proud of.

    My feeling is that due diligence played a part in both. I just don't feel that was as true in the Rashica and Tzolis signings. Nobody can get all signings right, but 2021-22 was a bad year for Webber and the club as the expensive loan signings also failed to produce.
     
    #98
  19. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    I had a quick look back at the 2021 transfers thread, surprisingly few comments about what we all thought of Tzolis. This from Gozo seemed to summarise opinions well:

    I think it's impossible to separate the Tzolis signing from the window in which it happened. You think back to the August/September when he came in, it's not surprising people were positive:
    • We'd apparently moved decisively and paid a little over what we maybe had to for Tzolis, because we wanted him in the squad for the season opener vs Liverpool.
    • Normann and Kabak signed on the type of deals we'd used for Gibson and Giannoulis to great effect the season before, and looked like we were bringing in players of a higher calibre.
    • Gilmour was one of the hottest talents at Euro 2020(1), that we were fortunate to land, and was a loanee replacing another highly successful loanee (Skipp).
    • Rashica was a season removed from being touted with a £30m move to Villa, it looked like we'd landed a bargain
    • Williams, Lees-Melou, Gunn all looked like smart business.
    • We weren't far removed from some other smart ins/outs, the club had a lot of trust from fans on the transfers front.
    And if 12,24 months on, we were looking back and saying Tzolis hadn't worked out, but 75% of the other deals had made a strong impression, then I think the gamble on Tzolis would be seen as more forgiveable, because as you said, in our financial situation there are no guaranteed successes, but it looked like a sensible gamble at the time. But looking back on a window where we spent €65m (and committed another €15m or so in potential future fees for Kabak and Normann), but less than €20m of that has had any meaningful impact on the pitch in two seasons (Sargent, Gunn), that kind of gamble looks more churlish, and I think hardens opinions on Tzolis.
     
    #99
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  20. 1950canary

    1950canary Well-Known Member

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    I support two teams - NCFC, who are the love of my life and remains so despite the UK deciding they don't want me as a citizen any more, and Nice with whom I have a season ticket. Both have owners who don't want to be there anymore, both have tried to keep costs down and bring youngsters on by acquiring older experienced players and both face leagues that are a lot stronger than they faced last year. I fear that both will struggle to stand still on last seasons final position which is more of a problem for City than Nice who overachieved last year. To prove me wrong we need Duffy to return to the form he showed at Brighton, Barnes to consistently perform as he sometimes did at Burnley and Sargeant to fill the shoes of Pukki. Can we really rely on that happening?
     
    #100

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