2020 Two Year Olds: Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Bustino74
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The trouble with having been around for sometime is that names you knew start appearing again. Yesterday Haggas ran a 2yo filly called Jacinth in a 6f Newbury maiden. She ran well finishing 3rd and running on well. By New Bay out of a Giants Causeway mare she should relish 7f or 8f this year. I'll be looking out for her next run.
Returning to my original point I remember Jacinth as a top class filly who was trained by Bruce Hobbs. She was by the fast Nasrullah sire Red God, out of a Right royal V mare. She won the 1972 Cheveley Park and then the 1973 Coronation Stakes and Falmouth Stakes. I believe she was ridden by John Gorton (remember him?) and was a real improver as a 2yo.
Returning to my original point I remember Jacinth as a top class filly who was trained by Bruce Hobbs. She was by the fast Nasrullah sire Red God, out of a Right royal V mare. She won the 1972 Cheveley Park and then the 1973 Coronation Stakes and Falmouth Stakes. I believe she was ridden by John Gorton (remember him?) and was a real improver as a 2yo.
I remember Jacinth. I also remember a high flying 2yo called Gorytus. Timeform raved about him as a magnificent specimen but something happened to him and, after two scintillating wins, that was that. His namesake made his debut over 7f at York today and won at 14/1
That Gorytus made his debut at York in 1982. The favourite was a Cecil trained horse called Salieri who was 7-1 on. Apprpriately Gorytus beat him by 7 lengths. He then strolled to a victory in the Champagne. A Dewhurst victory was seen as a mere gallop. Phil Bull sat down with Hern after the Champagne win and said 'you know what your problem is now?'. Hern demurred and Bull said 'well all the big bookmakers will be destroyed if Gorytus wins the Guineas. Please take care'.
Gorytus only had 3 opponents in the Dewhurst and was odds-on. Carson said that after a furlong he was dead. He finished long tailed-off. He never won again.
Let's hope this Goytus has a happier time. Apparently a magnificent looking horse, that Gorytus was by Nijinsky out of the 1000G winner Glad Rags.
Gorytus only had 3 opponents in the Dewhurst and was odds-on. Carson said that after a furlong he was dead. He finished long tailed-off. He never won again.
Let's hope this Goytus has a happier time. Apparently a magnificent looking horse, that Gorytus was by Nijinsky out of the 1000G winner Glad Rags.
I never saw the original Gorytus but a guy I once worked with talked about backing the colt for the 2000 Guineas with some confidence. He was bereft when the horse met with defeat. We are looking back at a conversation that took place between the two of us more than 30 years ago but I seem to recall that he said Diesis was the one who won the race in question.
I only really recall Diesis as the sire of Dimenuendo, who was one of my favourites and I don't think I ever saw an easier 2YO winner than when she debuted over 6F at Leicester and came home to win 12 lengths hard held. She landed the Oaks the following season.
I managed to track down Gorytus in happier times in the 1982 Champagne stakes:-
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It wasn't an electric turn of foot to my eyes and more a case of continually pouring it on at the front to ultimately draw right away, still full of running after the line.
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I remember watching the original Gorytus on the tv. He really was a good looking horse. He did stand at stud and ended up in Japan
He never had one. The Racing Post didn't come into being until 1986. I recall buying the paper in London and if memory serves me right it had Sonic Lady on the cover.
I had Sonic Lady and Dancing Brave in an ante-post double but the filly never held up her end of the bargain. I think they fitted her with a different bridle and she settled better to land the Irish version of the 1000 Guinea.
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Best 2YO colt I have seen this season is Master Of The Seas
I already posted about Cadillac after his debut. His 9 length win looked a bit special but I am just not a fan of Jessica Harrington for ante-post purposes after too many disappointments. Cadillac was 33/1 for the Guineas when I mentioned him but the colt is now 16/1 following the runner up to him winning next time.
Master Of The Seas really looked the part and I prefer the chances of Charlie Appleby in a) Actually taking the horse to Newmarket and b) Delivering him ready to do the business than I do Jessica Harrington.
The fillies so far have failed to inspire me. Aidan has had a few out but nothing that appeals long term to me.
Andre Fabre had a Deep Impact filly Harajuku out at Chantilly on Sunday and she won in the style of a filly with a lot more to come. I would expect her to be tried at Listed level next time.
I already posted about Cadillac after his debut. His 9 length win looked a bit special but I am just not a fan of Jessica Harrington for ante-post purposes after too many disappointments. Cadillac was 33/1 for the Guineas when I mentioned him but the colt is now 16/1 following the runner up to him winning next time.
Master Of The Seas really looked the part and I prefer the chances of Charlie Appleby in a) Actually taking the horse to Newmarket and b) Delivering him ready to do the business than I do Jessica Harrington.
The fillies so far have failed to inspire me. Aidan has had a few out but nothing that appeals long term to me.
Andre Fabre had a Deep Impact filly Harajuku out at Chantilly on Sunday and she won in the style of a filly with a lot more to come. I would expect her to be tried at Listed level next time.
At the end of the 1982 season, the independent Timeform organisation gave Gorytus a rating of 132, making him their second-best two-year-old of the season behind Diesis (133). In the official International Classification he was ranked third behind Diesis and the French colt Saint Cyrien. As a three-year-old he was awarded a rating of 123 by Timeform while in the International Classification he was rated thirteen pounds inferior to the top-rated three-year-old Shareef Dancer.
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looks an interesting filly. Daughter of Frankel out of 1000 Guineas winner Natagora. Came 4th on debut btn 1½l, ran green over 1f out, kept on well final 110yds. Only a piddly little race but certainly a mere learning exercise
Think you are right about Master of the Seas. Will be interesting to see how he progresses.
The Morny is beginning to look like the speedster's race.
Yes he was built more like a sprinter. Maybe the bookies needn't have worried (and kept their powders dry) as perhaps his limit was 7f. One pedigree judge, James Underwood, stood out against him before he was got at. He was not a fan of Vincent O'Brien's Glad Rags as a matron.
Of the unraced fillies I like the name of Joan Of Arc. Trained by O'Brien Senior for the cartel she holds an entry in the Moyglare.
A full sister to Vatican City and Gleneagles amongst others. The dam has a consistent record from six matings with Galileo and the lowest rated of them has been 106 (Coolmore)on RPR and the Best 124 (Gleneagles).
33/1 at the head of the Oaks betting, the stamina for that race must be a question mark and the Guineas might be more feasible if you fancy a stab in the dark at 50/1.
Joan Of Arc so remember, small stakes, in case you get burnt
A full sister to Vatican City and Gleneagles amongst others. The dam has a consistent record from six matings with Galileo and the lowest rated of them has been 106 (Coolmore)on RPR and the Best 124 (Gleneagles).
33/1 at the head of the Oaks betting, the stamina for that race must be a question mark and the Guineas might be more feasible if you fancy a stab in the dark at 50/1.
Joan Of Arc so remember, small stakes, in case you get burnt
I had a couple of quid on her on her debut, purely based on the pedigree. The obvious one, in the form of the warm favourite ended up winning that race but I thought the 6F was too sharp for Anghaam that day, and I noted in my post after the race that I would be surprised were she not raced over 7F next time. The runner up in that race, Spright, hosed up by more than 5 lengths in a Novice race at York next time.
Entered up in a Novice Race at Ascot on Saturday, and in a Maiden Race at Newmarket the same day, both contests are over 7F, so Hannon must be thinking along the same lines as myself.
Both races have multiple entries from Hannon and also several offspring of Frankel line up in those contests.
The pick of them from my point of view would be Dhahabi who is entered in the Newmarket race and is a bay colt by Frankel out of Golden Horn's mother Fleche D'or.
A funny weekend for 2YO's with many multiply entered. Good luck with Anghaam if you are on.
To my eyes Master of the Seas won his race when beating Devious Company more easily than Battleground did today The Dascombe colt looks a reliable yardstick and so at this stage I'd say Master of the Seas is at least 2-3lbs ahead. Perhaps they'll meet in Ireland in August/September.
An impressive performance by the regally bred Battleground nonetheless.
An impressive performance by the regally bred Battleground nonetheless.
Sorry Grendel as you were finishing yours I was writing mine. You're in the middle, I'm in the Master camp but Steveo is with Battleground.
There is going to be trouble if people start agreeing too much on here.
What you state about Devious Company looking like a reliable yardstick totally vindicates the point that you make about Master Of The Seas. Since we both reached that same conclusion separately I am going to put that down to great minds thinking alike. The speed he showed at Newmarket also makes me think he is more likely to be a miler and the one to be on ante post for the 2021 HQ Classic.
I like Battleground and his style of racing very much reminds me of his mother – and he even has her white blaze. Today in the Vintage, he showed that one burst of speed to get to the front and then he quickened away. I cannot see him as a Guineas winner because I think that he already looks like he will be better at middle distances. I remember his mother very well as I had an ante post bet on her for the 1000 Guineas and O’Brien took her out of it at the final declaration stage and instead ran her in a tin-pot seven furlong event the following day and she was beaten on heavy ground.