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Off Topic 2019 Cricket World Cup

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Dorty Dogbreath, May 30, 2019.

  1. Dorty Dogbreath

    Dorty Dogbreath keeper of the glow

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    **** off Rolf Harris.
     
    #181
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  2. Judge Death

    Judge Death Well-Known Member

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    Kylie, Hugh Jackman, Olivia Newton-John, Paul Hogan, Mel Gibson - can you hear me Mel Gibson?

    Your boys took a hell of a beating.... :1980_boogie_down::1980_boogie_down::1980_boogie_down:
     
    #182
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  3. Dorty Dogbreath

    Dorty Dogbreath keeper of the glow

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    You forgot Skippy ffs <grr>
     
    #183
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  4. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Annihilation
     
    #184
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  5. Ghostinthehouse

    Ghostinthehouse Well-Known Member

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    Roy has to be given a chance to open in the Ashes.
    Archer must be a shoe in, the way he's taken to international cricket.
     
    #185
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  6. YAJERK

    YAJERK Active Member

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    I feel for Roy in that he has been limited to the one-day/ Twenty20 bracket for too long. It has to be said his County Championship average and stats aren't the best, but we've selected inept players off that for decades and they have always failed on the International stage.

    Roy has a bit of presence which actually makes the bowlers throwing a 90mph projectile towards him **** themselves. That is quite a feat.

    He has a bit of an unusual technique, and I think he might be get found out over the longer format, but I think he has certainly earned a go. I reckon the troubles with the rest of the candidates are so severe, they have to limit James Vince to a liquid diet so he can't choke consuming enough calories to keep his weedy frame alive.
     
    #186
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  7. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

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    Has something happened?
     
    #187
  8. GeordieHalfbreed

    GeordieHalfbreed Well-Known Member

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    England are saving their signature batting collapse for the final...
     
    #188
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  9. Dorty Dogbreath

    Dorty Dogbreath keeper of the glow

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    Fecking hope not like! <yikes>
     
    #189
  10. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I'd change our test line up. We've been plugging away giving the likes of Lyth, Hameed, Burns, Jennings a go. None have really take their chance. I hope Hales can sort his life out because natural talent wise, he should long have been at 3 or opening for England.

    I'd like to see us like this for the first test:

    Roy
    Bairstow
    Burns/Hales/Morgan
    Root
    Stokes
    Buttler (W)
    Woakes/Ali/Pope/Curran
    Rashid
    Archer
    Broad
    Anderson

    Essentially I don't see the point in being cute. You might as well go with the two who have an understanding, who dovetail, and if that means Bairstow has to lose the gloves then so be it. I think Buttler is a better keeper than him now. That attack matches any in world cricket. However it may be that you take Stokes as your 4th seamer, and play a batsmen or another spinner in Ali. Depends on the pitches.

    The No.3 will remain a bone of contention I imagine. Burns probably deserves more of a chance. Hales would be a shoe in if he made use of his talent. If its just about winning though, I'd go with Morgan. He can help Root with field settings etc, he has a really creative brain. Plus he is ice cool and you need that in the Ashes. If you say to him your job is to come in and tough it out if we lose an early one, I think he'd put it all on the line. He's that kind of bloke and in the Ashes you need big cojones.
     
    #190

  11. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    It may be that Roy struggles. Its true his technique is not ideally suited to the longer format. He relies on hand eye coordination which with a moving duke would normally be exposed. He has triggers that bowlers will target and test. Not for 10 overs but a whole summer. Its a different kind of pressure. One thing for sure though is we will never know unless we try, and given the other 6 or 7 who've had a go have failed, we don't really have anything to lose. As you say he has earnt a go.

    Michael Vaughan had a pretty average domestic record. Collingwood would not have the greatest domestic record. Loads have through the years. Test cricket is not really about the numbers. It is a question of character and ability to keep concentration and deliver your skills over 5 days rather than a few hours. Its about finding a way when the ball is moving and bowlers are on top. Its about toughing it and getting your ribs tickled off 90mph deliveries but still keeping your head. This is what really makes a test cricketer. Many disliked him but Duncan Fletcher transformed England in this regard. He picked on character.
     
    #191
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  12. YAJERK

    YAJERK Active Member

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    I would have to drop Rashid to be honest. I know he is flavour of the month because he took a good wicket against the Aussies and claimed a cracking run out earlier in the tournament, but bowling-wise he is worse than Ali, and his batting is nowhere near Ali even when Mo isn't on form.

    The reason he is having a decent spell at the moment is one of the odd things about ODIs. Batsmen tend to target bowlers to score runs off and play conservatively against the best bowlers. Rashid is targeted because ordinarily he offers very little spin. This means he picks up quite a few wickets through lofted attempts at a boundary.

    Morgan has been given a chance at Test level and clearly does not have the temperament or technique, while I think Woakes has earned a spot with his increased pace.

    I would go with the following:

    Roy
    Bairstow
    Sibley
    Root
    Stokes
    Buttler
    Woakes
    Ali
    Curran/Broad
    Archer
    Anderson/Wood

    Dom Sibley could be replaced by any of the younger breed, such as Pope, but he is a top order batsman and I think he is more adept at dealing with the hard ball.

    I like the idea of having Woakes, Ali & Curran as useful lower order batsmen. Broad and Anderson will be over the hill very soon, at which point we may find it hard to take wickets.
     
    #192
  13. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I like Curran but I think the hullabaloo about him has been way overblown. Again though the young lad clearly has some character about him. I just think bowling wise, in the modern game, if a pitch goes flat he will go the distance at his pace. We saw it last summer on occasion.

    Losing Anderson and Broad will be a massive blow. Woakes is Anderson's natural replacement, he is starting to develop the skills. Broad - I'd say we don't have a natural replacement. We don't really have a tall hit the deck seamer. We have the skiddy Wood and bandy Archer. However we don't need an identical player. Wood and Archer bring genuine pace. I think if you mix that with the swing and craft of Woakes, add in Stokes, that's a really good 4. I was worried about those two retiring but there are options unveiling themselves now.

    Must admit I'm a big Rashid fan and always have been. I think he wipes the floor with Ali bowling wise. I think Rashid's success is entirely dependant on how he is used and captained. Too often for England he has been used in a holding capacity. Ali can do that, he runs through overs quickly, bowling quick and just holding up an end. Joe Root is better at that than Rashid. Rashid has to be used as a pure wicket taking option. You have to free him up to really rip it and try his variations. When he is free like that, he's a magical bowler. I feel like only Morgan as ever really understood him. I'd have to disagree on turn too, I think he is a genuine turner of the ball when he is happy and fit. Ali and Rashid need alternated for me depending on the type of wicket. If its turning both should always play.

    On the subject of Morgan he only ever played about 15 tests and I reckon there were at least a couple of centuries in there. He was in and out, I seem to remember a long running battle with Bopara for a spot. He had a tough time against Pakistan in the UAE and that was him done. You could discard the whole lot off the back that tour! To be honest I'm surprised about the temperament remark. If one guy in any of our three squads has the temperament, its Eoin Morgan. I understand the desire to get younger players in of course, but not many are sticking their hand up. Sibley is one you could give a go to and obviously they wanted to push Pope forward. I'm a big believer though if someone is in form in any format, consider them because form is golden in cricket. The slight concern is it being after the lord mayors show with the WC.

    One thing for sure, England is in great shape for the next 10 years. If they can find one or two batsmen, another bowler, I honestly think we could be heading into a terrific era.
     
    #193
  14. YAJERK

    YAJERK Active Member

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    I think Test cricket is so different in terms of technical and character requirement, that only exceptional cases should be made to use ODIs as a test case for the true game. Roy qualifies on that basis because he is brilliant about 6 or 7 out of 10 innings, and scores big and sensibly. Morgan is brilliant, at best, 1 in 10. Sometimes he's not even that good.

    He dines out on big innings for years sometimes. He is also obviously weak on the pull/hook, so if he was in the Test squad guess what every single delivery would be!

    I do rate him, just think Test cricket is out of his wheelhouse.

    And I have to disagree on Rashid again. The captaincy thing does hold some truth, but by and large watching him for Yorkshire, he does not spin the ball with enough regularity. We'll see anyway, because he will be a guaranteed selection, but I expect him to be dropped fairly quickly.
     
    #194
  15. haslam

    haslam Well-Known Member

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    I think Rashid will be given a shot though it's far from a two person decision. Leach did a fine job and Bess did well, though in his one game didn't have a spinners pitch.
     
    #195
  16. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Weird thing is it really depends on which Mo, Rashid turns up. Both are inconsistent. Mo has been appalling with the bat for a man of his natural talent. Its been tough because not every player will find it easy to develop a more all round game. Mo has worked very hard to improve his bowling, particularly trying to introduce some flight. He was too flat and once they worked him out he was a liability. Now I actually think he's not that far behind Rash with the ball. The problem is the trade off has been his batting. That gap he had on Rash in that regard has narrowed considerably. Mind Rash has never been a mug with the bat and has plenty of domestic runs to prove it.

    Leech and Bess have serious ground to make up but like you say are not totally out of the equation. It may all be fairly unimportant if they are seaming wickets. I often think Mo is the best option then with his late order hitting and because of the pace he bowls at, he can almost just bowl holding off breaks.
     
    #196
  17. haslam

    haslam Well-Known Member

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    But it's also why the statistics can't really be relied upon for spinners. Mo often seems to be preferred on "non-spinning" wickets ad used as a holding role. Rashid is a more attacking bowler and is more likely to be used on good pitches for spinners. I don't get how people could ever really have a go at Mo, he's the best team player we have, others would have spoken out more at the hand he gets dealt but he just gets his head down and does his best.

    For the record I think Leach is a better spinner than both of them, but we don't have any outstanding spinners at the moment just a handful of decent ones which are much of a muchness. Always been a bit surprised they never re-tried Borthwick but given the ages of all involved I think Bess will be the one going forward if he has a decent year or two.
     
    #197
  18. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Mo for sure takes some stick which is just ridiculous. The bloke basically sacrificed all of his initial coaching to try and get a game by becoming the spinner England needed. Its messed with his head and his batting but I think he is finally coming out the other side. Whether his batting will get back to where it was, probably not.

    I think Borthwick's problem is he declared he wanted to be considered a batsmen. Its why him and Stoneman moved to Surrey to bat on better weather/wickets. The overhead conditions mean Durham is a tough place to learn your trade as a batsman. Leech is a funny one. When I've watched him in country cricket he seems pretty adaptable. He seems to recognise he is not the type of spinner to get people out on unhelpful wickets, but he seems to be able to become that end holder. However in second innings when there is turn, he can tweak it and cause problems. That is a good trait to have in international cricket. Bess needs a lot of work on his bowling. He is ok as an end holder but he needs to develop his attacking game. His batting has a lot of potential though. Very solid and tight technique. Young lad though and they've earmarked him, so as you say he would be the one in selector eyes.

    I personally think Rash has the X factor about him compared to the others. What we are really crying out for is a once in a generation spinner. Ages since we've had what you'd call a genius. I mean I rated Swann highly but I he was not what you'd call a genius.
     
    #198
  19. Rum & Black for 2

    Rum & Black for 2 Champion’s League Prediction League Champion
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    After the long form posting by Pouchy and Kojak and Hasbeen we’re back to the short form game


    Howay England.
     
    #199
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  20. Rum & Black for 2

    Rum & Black for 2 Champion’s League Prediction League Champion
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    Yes, get in Woaksey
     
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