2 Points from 9: Is it only me who questions BR?

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Why is it that I have to give a manager a FULL season to decide if I think he's up for it? If I started a new job tomorrow, I'd be given 6 weeks. BR should change his initials on his kit to PR. That's all he's going to be good for imo. We're **** and everyone has bought into his bullshit.....I'm no lemming, I know a phoney when i see one.
 
Frank - you've spent around £170M in the last 5 windows & Rodgers himself has spent over £40M in the last 2. He started last nights game with none of his signings on the pitch (albeit Sturridge would have played) & the majority of the side weren't players that made up that £170M spend either. So there's the crux of it, you've spent a fortune - badly.

As for a 'plan b', I don't think having the ability & tactical nous to change a formation or personel (or both) during a game, means that you have to completely change your ethos, as to the way your side plays the game. Ferguson gave a master class to Moyes on Sunday on how to set up your side to try & nulify the opposition, & then changing it during the game, when the pre-match plan wasn't working 100%. Rodgers is a million miles away from having the same level of ability imo.
 
School of Science said:
Frank - you've spent around £170M in the last 5 windows & Rodgers himself has spent over £40M in the last 2. He started last nights game with none of his signings on the pitch (albeit Sturridge would have played) & the majority of the side weren't players that made up that £170M spend either. So there's the crux of it, you've spent a fortune - badly.

As for a 'plan b', I don't think having the ability & tactical nous to change a formation or personel (or both) during a game, means that you have to completely change your ethos, as to the way your side plays the game. Ferguson gave a master class to Moyes on Sunday on how to set up your side to try & nulify the opposition, & then changing it during the game, when the pre-match plan wasn't working 100%. Rodgers is a million miles away from having the same level of ability imo.
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I reluctantly totally agree with this! <ok>

I do have to add that SAF had several years grace where he 'learnt' to get it right. Nobody will ever get that again at any club, let alone a top one.
 
School of Science said:
Frank - you've spent around £170M in the last 5 windows & Rodgers himself has spent over £40M in the last 2. He started last nights game with none of his signings on the pitch (albeit Sturridge would have played) & the majority of the side weren't players that made up that £170M spend either. So there's the crux of it, you've spent a fortune - badly.
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Rodgers hasn't spent the money that well in terms of instant success i.e Allen, Borini and Assaidi. But you also have to remember that the richer clubs are able to spend £40m in 2 windows without having to sell others. Rodgers had to get rid of key men in Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy as well replace them and then add more to the group.
 
KENNY_KOP_KING said:
Why is it that I have to give a manager a FULL season to decide if I think he's up for it? If I started a new job tomorrow, I'd be given 6 weeks. BR should change his initials on his kit to PR. That's all he's going to be good for imo. We're **** and everyone has bought into his bullshit.....I'm no lemming, I know a phoney when i see one.
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Be careful what you wish for KENNY. We don't have the money of resources to be trigger happy employers like Chelsea. Sacking rafa was right - but the appointment of Hodgson was a disaster. Kenny should have only been a caretaker, making way for a martinez or De Matteo (or Rodgers?) at the end of that season. But once they appionted him and gave him £100m to blow.... Made no sense whatsoever to not give him and Clarke another season, as the style of play WAS good, and at least they were pragmatic.

But now? Where do we go to if we get rid of Brendan now? Mourhino? Guardiola?.... FSG are going to give them £300m? Strap youself in for the long haul feller. There's no short cuts on this journey.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Rodgers hasn't spent the money that well in terms of instant success i.e Allen, Borini and Assaidi. But you also have to remember that the richer clubs are able to spend £40m in 2 windows without having to sell others. Rodgers had to get rid of key men in Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy as well replace them and then add more to the group.
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That won't remain the case indefinitely if you continue to spend it poorly & don't progress back to the summit & notably the CL.

You're the 3rd highest spenders again this season, 4 of the clubs currently ahead of you in the league also had new managers this season, & yet you're currently sat 9th, with the 2nd lowest points total that you've had after 26 games in the PL era.

Talk of transition, systems, bedding in, blah, blah, are just excuses spun primarily by Rodgers himself - the table shows that you're consistently falling short & he's the man who's ultimately responsible.
 
Frank...

That is exactly why a manager should be given time. The players deserve criticism too but the buck stops with the manager. He can't sell every player and buy a whole new squad overnight and therefore need three or four transfer windows at least.
 
donga darko said:
Be careful what you wish for KENNY. We don't have the money of resources to be trigger happy employers like Chelsea. Sacking rafa was right - but the appointment of Hodgson was a disaster. Kenny should have only been a caretaker, making way for a martinez or De Matteo (or Rodgers?) at the end of that season. But once they appionted him and gave him £100m to blow.... Made no sense whatsoever to not give him and Clarke another season, as the style of play WAS good, and at least they were pragmatic.

But now? Where do we go to if we get rid of Brendan now? Mourhino? Guardiola?.... FSG are going to give them £300m? Strap youself in for the long haul feller. There's no short cuts on this journey.
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Yeah, I know mate.....and it's exactly what I am afraid of.....just don't think BR is the man to lead us on that journey! Truly hope I'm wrong <ok>
 
there were always going to be games like this, but everyone feared the worst with Sturridge out.

Not a penalty but if Gerrard had scored... it really is that simple, the longer we press for a goal, the longer any team does the more susceptible you are to a counter, goal No2 for example.


Agger again, AGAIN gets lost and runs into a defender, that is the 4th time this season he's been done by that, he's so caught up on wrestling the guy he's marking he totally ignores the danger area the ball goes to.<doh> Agger needs to go back to school ffs
 
Kenny, your performance in a new job is rarely based almost exclusively on the performance of 24 others even as a manager. And even if it is you usually have the ability to fire those people without it costing your company millions to do so. This makes your comparison a poor one. You also seem to accept a double standard when comparing unfavourably to Fergie? Why should BR get less time in this modern age than Fergie got? That's purely a call by our owners & what pressure we as fans bring to bear in stamping our feet. There's no law of physics that says a modern manager must be an immediate success that's invented by the media to sell stories and spoilt brat syndrome amongst fans.

I'll guarantee you this. Without the money to keep replacing errors with same values we will stay in this cycle. We don't have that money or the owners aren't prepared to risk the amounts due to past failures. So its even slower progress.

Tobes; I know you don't rate BR and you may be right but I still think its too early. You lumped in errors by the club as whole in a thread about his faults We could sit & debate the exact figures & what is a failure, still to early to call etc etc. lets accept your figure of 40 million. I'd say its about 50/50 because we have one definite failure (loan) and the others are young & not bought for immediate impact or have been injured or have just arrived. I'll wait until the end of next year to judge. That doesn't make me naive and it doesn't mean I can't accept the possibility that he isn't up to the job. I'm just not going to be lead by the nose by mischievous opinions from people who's interests are most definitely not our clubs. Opposition fans, media pundits etc. you've also when it suited you Tobes stated the large bulk of our squad is average. Why does this conveniently disappear as an argument when discussing BR? He's only bought 5 of them no matter their price?

Our malaise goes well beyond BR and being frustrated because he hasn't fixed it in 4 months is ludicrous. No manager could do it.

As I said, my anger & frustration will be saved for players who don't give their all to the best of their ability even if their best is average. Sure Everton have shown that average players working hard can occasionally do well...;)
 
KENNY_KOP_KING said:
The next time someone mentions top 4, please shoot them.....both barrels!

First off, I'd like to congratulate Clarke and WBA for a job well done yesterday; they knew how to stifle us and did it very well.

I find it really hard to stay positive tbh. While I applaud how we played against City and somewhat less so against Arsenal (awful defending again).....yesterday showed up our inadequacies in bright technicolor. Lot's of people will vilify me and argue that BR is learning.....and that's fair enough, but are we a club that wants to nurture a manager clearly not at the right level yet? Has anyone ever considered that he may not EVER be at the right level?

Let me make my case a little more; The first half yesterday, we were set up all wrong; make no mistake, this is how BR sends out his team; we should of had them on the rack from the first minute, instead, we play tippy-toe football for 45 minutes and it infuriates me! What is the point of so much procession if we do nothing with it??

Our defence is shocking at defending set pieces. This isn't about how we play football, it's 101 coaching out on the park, day in, day out. And as bad as we are at set pieces, we are worse being awarded them! I see no reason for us to simulate a foul anywhere tbh, we can't score for toffee from a set play......corner kicks look like a scene from Gullivers travels!

What is the point of Borini? Where is Joe Allen? Is it just me who questions BR on here? Make no mistake, we are heading nowhere under him.

Anyway, my last point. No plan B. Nothing. How many times yesterday did we get into great attacking positions and cross to......Nobody. It's as much the system as the players and I've had enough.

We play some nice football, are good in procession but lack penetration and are pretty lightweight. We have become Swansea (11/12). We are mid table mediocrity and am afraid will stay there under BR; I'm sure of it. I will of course eat my hat if i'm wrong.
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Are you ready teeth? Prepare to get munching <doh>
 
KENNY_KOP_KING said:
Perhaps. I'm sure you, me and probably a dozen regulars on here said the same thing every game during Dalglish's reign - what's changed really?.....We play pretty football, sure....but it's not effective against well drilled teams......when I say team, that includes the keeper as we have to get past him too!

I think BR is tactically inept.....there I've said it.....
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Said goalkeeper had a world-beating game last night. Simple as.
 
Frank - I think that's largely fair, albeit I'd add that I mentioned the total spend & the fact that most of them weren't playing last night, to highlight the overall mistakes that have been made in recent years, not just those made by Rodgers.

The game's decided by fine margins & if Gerrards swerving shot goes in, then you're probably telling me how you'll overtake us on Sunday today. But people like Rodgers are paid vast sums to manage at this level, to manage their sides to be on the right end of those fine margins. I can understand why Liverpool fans want to give the man more time, & in your shoes I'd probably advocate the same thing, but I think your pragmatism will end up being wasted on Rodgers, as he's out of his depth imo.
 
School of Science said:
You lost 0-2 at home to a side without a win since Boxing Day & yet you think your tactics were fine?

The penalty was never a penalty anyway, so it was justice that Foster kept it out.

You only mustered 7 shots on target including the penalty, so you were hardly creating hatfuls of clear cut chances.

West Brom sat deep & absorbed what you threw at them, Foster made a couple of great saves, but that's what he's paid to do.

For me you lacked any form of 'plan b' there were large spells of that game, when you never looked like scoring.
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Boots. Can I respectfully suggest you read the BBC football match report and stats. 23 shots, 14 on target. Next.........................................
 
KENNY_KOP_KING said:
Why is it that I have to give a manager a FULL season to decide if I think he's up for it? If I started a new job tomorrow, I'd be given 6 weeks. BR should change his initials on his kit to PR. That's all he's going to be good for imo. We're **** and everyone has bought into his bullshit.....I'm no lemming, I know a phoney when i see one.
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But we were a million miles away from what we were used to when Rafa had his last season - there is no quick fix here. BR is having to do what he can with the budget he is given and he is doing ok.

If it was up to you what would you do? And let's not forget that we do not just get to pick who is manager as we are in a **** state compared to 06-07.

I think most peoples answer would be get rafa in but I just can't see it being the answer as much as I loved him when he was here.
 
Dirtyfrank said:
Kenny, your performance in a new job is rarely based almost exclusively on the performance of 24 others even as a manager. And even if it is you usually have the ability to fire those people without it costing your company millions to do so. This makes your comparison a poor one. You also seem to accept a double standard when comparing unfavourably to Fergie? Why should BR get less time in this modern age than Fergie got? That's purely a call by our owners & what pressure we as fans bring to bear in stamping our feet. There's no law of physics that says a modern manager must be an immediate success that's invented by the media to sell stories and spoilt brat syndrome amongst fans.

I'll guarantee you this. Without the money to keep replacing errors with same values we will stay in this cycle. We don't have that money or the owners aren't prepared to risk the amounts due to past failures. So its even slower progress.

Tobes; I know you don't rate BR and you may be right but I still think its too early. You lumped in errors by the club as whole in a thread about his faults We could sit & debate the exact figures & what is a failure, still to early to call etc etc. lets accept your figure of 40 million. I'd say its about 50/50 because we have one definite failure (loan) and the others are young & not bought for immediate impact or have been injured or have just arrived. I'll wait until the end of next year to judge. That doesn't make me naive and it doesn't mean I can't accept the possibility that he isn't up to the job. I'm just not going to be lead by the nose by mischievous opinions from people who's interests are most definitely not our clubs. Opposition fans, media pundits etc. you've also when it suited you Tobes stated the large bulk of our squad is average. Why does this conveniently disappear as an argument when discussing BR? He's only bought 5 of them no matter their price?

Our malaise goes well beyond BR and being frustrated because he hasn't fixed it in 4 months is ludicrous. No manager could do it.

As I said, my anger & frustration will be saved for players who don't give their all to the best of their ability even if their best is average. Sure Everton have shown that average players working hard can occasionally do well...;)
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This ^ <ok>
 
Yid Vicious said:
Dalglish was brought in and given a big budget to turn Liverpool back into a top 4 side and instead he took you further backwards, I don't see how he'd have done any better with less money this summer and sticking with this idea of Downing + Carroll = Goals. Rodgers was brought in as part of a longerterm, more realistic and sustainable plan to get the club back up the table and should be judged accordingly. Rodgers has a lot of players that he wouldn't have bought and probably doesn't want, had he been given the same level of money Dalglish had then you could judge him by the same standards that got him the boot.
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Sorry YV but Dalglish took over when we were 17th in the table so that's hardly sideways movement. He had to deal with the likes of Konchesky and Poulsen and one of our best strikers in years buggering off before he'd even got his feet under the table. Rodgers has a better team than when Kenny arrived that's just a fact. Then he has Comoli throwing cash away like it's confetti.

I agree that BR needs time just as Kenny did. Kenny won't ever be back as manager and that wasn't the point of my post. The fact remains that IMO sacking him was pointless. We'd have been no worse off than now. Would we have been much higher? Well no-one can say but personally I prefer stability with managers (so BR as you say has to be given time). However just as with Kenny he needs to stop making basic errors. Last night wasn't entirely his fault but he certainly didn't help the situation by playing Shelvey in the front 3. He's made some decisions this season that a pub team manager wouldn't make and that's worrying. Even more worrying for me is his total inflexibility. He can't alter a game because he appears to know only one system and that system has been shown up since as early as the Udinese home game at the start of the season. We can all see it. Why can't he?
 
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