150k

[gillslad69]

The FA have fined both the club and our chairman £75k each as well as PS having to attend an educational course. This regards an employment tribunal.

We have deliberated over the individual (the player/waste of space) previously and rather than repeat what is already in other threads, I wish for some future thoughts. So this thread is more along the lines as to what the club would need to do in order to repair it's reputation amongst the wider footballing community and general public.

http://www.thefa.com/news/governance/2015/jul/gillingham-chairman-paul-scally-fined

 

[alwaysright]

The Club continues to employ players and other members of staff whose skin colour varies.

No matter what the tribunal finds - the Club has NOT acted in a racially 'motivated' manner. It was all to do with procedures and protocol.

I accept that GFC got it wrong as far as it relates to 'Personnel / HR ' issues.

Unfortunately the matter somehow became a dispute where it is alleged that racism was involved - although I have yet to see a shred of evidence to support this suggestion - but - if you throw enough mud, some tends to stick.

Justification for the original complaint was that a certain player was singled out because of his skin colour - and yet plenty of other players have been 'disciplined' by the Club regardless of what colour their skin might be. They have accepted any discipline without whinging " You're only picking on me because I'm white."

Regarding your question.- I'm not sure that the Club can do anything more than it already does - ( bear in mind that players with a dark skin colour still are attracted to work for it ) - it's a shame that another player didn't seem to want to do any more work than produce 5 goals in 3 years.

If you're a rubbish at your job, it doesn't matter what skin colour you have - you should be sacked --- the trouble was - GFC didn't do the sacking according to union rules.

 

[GeminiSwiftgfc]

Everyone needs to move on. It's done with, finished, end of. Shame the FA want to have a bit of cred back after their failure in the Malky Mackay text message failure and we are the whipping boys. Well done FA. Not going to go into it. It's over. Pay up move on.

 

[grumpygit]

Once again the newspaper headlines look for the sensational and ignore the truth, if you actually read the FA report/findings then item 42 states that they could find NO EVIDENCE of racial discrimination within the club.
The whole findings (and those of the employment tribunal) are to do with wrongful dismissal, it all rests with the wording of his letter of dismissal referring to unfounded accusations of discrimination, under the laws of equality making accusations of racial discrimination (even if proved to be unfounded) cannot be used to dismiss a employee provided that the employee believed at the time of making the allegation they were true.

All we can do is improve our HR department to avoid similar in the future.

 

[itstimupnorth]

I thought that the FA charge was for racial discrimination as the employment tribunal resolved the legal aspects of this case, but at the moment I don't have easy access to that information. However I presume there must be more to the FA charge if we've collected a fine but found not guilty of discrimination.

On the bright side it's not a points deduction, and I agree - pay up and move on; it's fairly ancient history already.

 

[BSG]

It is time to draw a line in the sand. The club clearly tried to force MM out of the club, not racially motivated but clearly wrongful dismissal territory. When the initial racial complaint came in the club stupidly ignored it, this is where we went wrong, it should have been nipped in the bud then but we are culpable by ignorance.

We should admit we made mistakes, apologise and move on, another appeal will just rake up ill feelings all over again.

 

[alwaysright]

BSG

I am sure that PS would have liked to draw the 'line in the sand' a long time ago. I expect that he still feels hurt about the suggestion that his actions were 'racially' motivated, and would want for the matter to 'disappear' - BUT

From his comments about the fine, I get the impression that ( despite NOT being found guilty of racism ), the size of the fine is some sort of 'backdoor' punishment by the FA, who PS must feel want to punish him and the Club for being racists.

I fully understand why PS wants to appeal the size of the fine - as disproportionate to fines given for other breaches of 'simple' employment rules - because precedent would be on his side. PS feels the size of the fine is to do with racism - THAT is NOT right - he is correct to ask the FA to justify the size of the punishment compared with other offenders of employment rules (only).

 

[brb]

I think as has been suggested in posts above it is time to move on. This has been done to death now with the rights and wrongs raked out endless times. Many employers fall foul of laws due to lack of understanding throughout management teams of how easy it is to be in breach of employment laws. Mainly due to lack of experience and or training. It don't mean to say you did wrong it just means you failed in the eyes of a tribunal to deal with it in an expected manner.

You can see it every day in one form or another in most workplaces, if you fail to dot them i's and cross them t's it is going to come back and bite you in the bum, time and time again unfairly as i see it in the case of Gillingham FC. I think there is much the FA could be doing within the game then raking this soil over again. Pay the fine, Mr Chairman take the course, might be good to ensure all future management teams do too....then close this once and for all.

I agree with grumpygit all we can do is improve our HR department, my advice would be Mr Chairman politely butt out and employ someone to deal with this crap for you, it will cost less in the long run I assure you. But what do i know eh!

 

[BSG]

Always I do understand your point of view and I am sure the smear on PS's reputation rankles him but the club is bigger than any individual, including the chairman. Every time the sorry mess is dragged up, the clubs reputation is damaged and will potentially impact on the potential for the club to sign players and may ultimately stop PS's dream of gaining backing from the middle east, would a wealthy foreign business man want to support a "racist" club?

 

[alwaysright]

BSG
I am not enjoying the adverse publicity that the latest 'episode' is having for GFC, and I don't expect it's a picnic for our Chairman

I have stated that PS & the Club got 'things' wrong - and quite rightly have been punished.

However I understand that PS is looking for some consistency in the level of punishment. I expect that he sees the 'size' of it as a 'backdoor' punishment for the racism that has NOT been proved - so as to appease the 'aggrieved' (MMc).

I want the matter to die and go away - but I also admire the fact that the 'guilty' man is asking why is he being hung. drawn and quartered for an offence that other miscreants only receive a slap on the wrist.

PS accepts that he got things wrong - but why should he be hung for a sheep, when he only stole a lamb ? Would you be happy to pay £60 for a parking fine when the motorist next to you only had to pay £30 ?

PS does not wish to compromise his principles of 'equal justice / fairness'. We, the fans have to accept the fallout - because, yet again the Press is concentrating on one aspect of the case - which wasn't proven.

The size of the individual has no bearing on justice /equality is for ALL

 

[brb]

I think sometimes though you have to let it go, things are not fair in life. So what are the advantages and disadvantages weighed of going to appeal, I'm sure for every unfair justice done there is one where people get something in there favour that is just as unfair, do we appeal against that of course not.

I could start by telling a fictitious story about the virtues of a bitter lonely old man, who never let the past go, all because he knew he was right.

Sometimes you have to let the past go and move on.

 

[GeminiSwiftgfc]

Fictitious story brb???? Sounds like you when talking about a new stadium. But seriously and back to the thread, I agree with you completely. Always I can see where you are coming from but what chances of winning an appeal? Our history hasn't exactly been good when appealing. Let's all just move on.

 

[alwaysright]

Fictitious story brb???? Sounds like you when talking about a new stadium. But seriously and back to the thread, I agree with you completely. Always I can see where you are coming from but what chances of winning an appeal? Our history hasn't exactly been good when appealing. Let's all just move on.

Geminiswift - you and several others in this forum are right.

Scally shouldn't continue with his fight - because I do believe that it will do the Club more harm than good that any possible victory, if he manages to have the punishment reduced. He should understand the situation as it reflects on the Club etc and accept the injustice of the size of the punishment - BUT -

Scally obviously feels his personal need for fairness is great enough to exercise his prerogative. Wether or not I feel he is right or wrong is irrelevant - he is sticking to principles that he will not compromise. I may not always like what he does - but I admire anyone who will not 'just' surrender.

 

[GeminiSwiftgfc]

I completely understand the need for justice when you think you are being hard done by. And I'm not saying it is "just" surrendering why I am saying is it has gone on for long enough. Tribunal gave a guilty verdict, FA now need a sacrificial lamb to be slaughtered and we are it. Mistakes were made, accept, learn and move on. This is something Mr Scally does seem to be unable to do.

 

[brb]

Fictitious story brb???? Sounds like you when talking about a new stadium. But seriously and back to the thread, I agree with you completely. Always I can see where you are coming from but what chances of winning an appeal? Our history hasn't exactly been good when appealing. Let's all just move on.

GeminiSwift - I agree. We seem to go round in circles forever the media attention of negative publicity like this. Bury bad news surely it is financially more productive then any appeal success. If we had a lesser fine would we have accepted it, maybe/probably, so why not just take the financial hit, the outcome will still be the same whoever wins. I can understand the financial implications may mean it takes us back a few steps on any business plans.

 

[WINDYROG]

The club got it wrong procedurally but have been punished for an offence that has not been judicially confirmed i.e. the racism side.
If you were stopped by the police for not wearing a seat belt but got stiffed and points for speeding would you want to move on???? No
I think that if the decision were based purely on professional malpractice....fair enough, it was what it was.
Accepting the decision based on the allegation of racism is, in my own opinion, wrong. It would attract a stigma that would never go away and say to the world that GFC is a racist club. Too high a price for moving on....again.....in my own humble opinion.

 

[Old Timer in Cyprus]

Hush now lads. Let's have a little 'quiet time' or you won't sleep tonight.

 

[BSG]

The club got it wrong procedurally but have been punished for an offence that has not been judicially confirmed i.e. the racism side.
If you were stopped by the police for not wearing a seat belt but got stiffed and points for speeding would you want to move on???? No
I think that if the decision were based purely on professional malpractice....fair enough, it was what it was.
Accepting the decision based on the allegation of racism is, in my own opinion, wrong. It would attract a stigma that would never go away and say to the world that GFC is a racist club. Too high a price for moving on....again.....in my own humble opinion.

It is funny Windy I see it completely opposite. The time between the legal hearings etc. I didn't hear anything about Gillingham being seen as a racist club, certainly nothing in the press and it wasn't brought up when I spoke to other fans, yet now it is all over the press. So as I see it another appeal will mean more press coverage and another round of "Gillingham are racist" in the press, or we can take a bitter pill and let it disappear into the background when the next scandal hits the press or the first managerial sacking in the Premiership.

I understand Scally wanting to clear his name but if he wants to fight this I would prefer him to distance himself from the club during the process to avoid any further damage to the club's reputation

 

[brb]

BSG - We generally have differing views but i think in your last post you summed it up perfect for me. Like you i've also not seen bad publicity over this matter since the tribunal and certainly heard no negative vibes via other fans.

and i totally agree with this comment you wrote;
I understand Scally wanting to clear his name but if he wants to fight this I would prefer him to distance himself from the club during the process to avoid any further damage to the club's reputation.