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10 Years ago.

Discussion in 'Bristol City' started by wizered, May 11, 2020.

  1. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Bristol City submitted multiple planning applications to Bristol City council under various Chairman and Owner, but what you were suggesting was the possibility that Steve Lansdown was the only person who could redevelop Ashton Gate. Football grounds UK wide are ever evolving through multiple ownerships. It is reasonable to suggest a John Laycock would have had the drive and acumen to run projects over a timespan of nearly twenty years to redevelop Ashton Gate.
     
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  2. johngalleyfan2

    johngalleyfan2 Well-Known Member

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    in a perverse sort of way it is / was a jobsworth mentality... BRISTOL CITY COUNCIL over the years have had loads of them, an awful lot in traffic! They never had the wherewithal to actually achieve it ...bit like pot holes!

    We have a bit of road near us that every spring has suffered the ravish's of the winter … along comes a man with a can and sprays lines squares or circles a few weeks later a transit tipper with a crew cab of 4 or 5 … they dig with a vibrating machine around the line [ often only a few inch's from the next one then fill it with tar mix. they may do 12 repairs in 1 half of 80 metres [ sorry mate is the reply we only do to there as it is BCC, THATS Wandsdyke ] . A week or 2 later a new team arrives … hang on its the same ones … and do the other 12 or so holes in the 40m. why are you leaving that pothole 2foot x 3ft and a few inch's deep? that's not on our sheet! Its probably BCC responsibility, but you did theirs a week or so ago! if its not on the sheet we don't do it, but you can see a bit of yellow line around bits of it … we only do whats on the sheet!

    anyways whilst it is not a bad thing to have good intentions one or more on the board probably voted against and it, and it kept fans believing something would happen ……….someday!
    bit like us, believing someday the repaired potholes of previously repaired potholes will someday be a nice flat un potholed bit of road
     
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  3. BCFCRob

    BCFCRob Well-Known Member

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    I'm absolutely not. You suggested Bristol Rovers are an exception with regard to stadium development, and to some extent they are. But it is notoriously difficult to get things built in Bristol, and there's no guarantee of funding coming along either. As much as we could have been a Southampton, we could easily have been a Portsmouth, Ipswich, even Sheffield Wednesday with regard to ageing stadia and struggling to get plans off the ground.
     
    #23
    oneforthebristolcity likes this.
  4. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Its going off on a tangent but there is that suggestion.
    Again Mr Laycock has a history of building projects and finding funding in it is notoriously difficult to get things built in Bristol.

    Bristol City under Mr Laycock were a vey stable ship, with small serviceable debts, even making profits .. Its quite uneven to suggest that in twenty years he could not have redeveloped elements if not all of the ground.

    Under Mr Laycock with his unmistakeable commitment to youth development it is fair to consider Bristol City's structure would be comparable to Southampton - Mr Laycock would have pursued a CAT 1 academy and regional development centres. The latter was an intent pushed backwards by Mr Lansdown and further by Bristol Sport. Exeter have a wider regional youth development network than BCFC do ..
     
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  5. BCFCRob

    BCFCRob Well-Known Member

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    Yep, no doubting a proper youth academy earlier on would have been massively beneficial. And there is a decent chance that under different ownership we'd still have a modern stadium, and a modern training facility. But in the same guise, there's no guarantee at all that that would have yielded better results than Lansdown. I've no doubt it would have been cheaper, but it's not our money at the end of the day.

    Laycock might well have done well for the club long-term (he was only chairman for a few years wasn't he?), that doesn't make Lansdown's tenure a complete failure. This topic is about Coppell and where we were after he left, and comparing that time with where we are now, I'm happy certain lessons have been learnt. We may well be making huge losses (without transfer activity) but I'm also confident if he withdrew the funding, we have the right assets and off-the-field income to sustain a good club with profits after some initial wage reduction.
     
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  6. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    In regards to your last line.The business in its present form has required regular cash injections via equity and loans to keep it afloat. Mr Lansdown recently turned loans of twenty million into shares alongside previous debt to equity servicing. This will continue into the future. The club IS Mr Lansdown and minus his funding it would within a few seasons require a massive reduction in playing staff to continue with manageable losses as it has no building bases assets and associated projected income to borrow against. That of course will not happen but under Mr Lansdown nobody would invest in BCFC/want to buy BCFC. It is a deliberate model of Mr Lansdown's making.

    There's no guarantee at all that that would have yielded better results than Lansdown - I have not suggested this. I have questioned decision making. Clubs that can be looked upon as sensible comparisons have progressed further on and off the pitch with long term strategy. Mr Lansdown has gone through strategies and boom and bust spending.
     
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  7. AshtonRed

    AshtonRed Well-Known Member

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    By definition only so many clubs can be successful, Southampton are one that has been but there are more that haven’t. I would rather have an owner who is local and cares about the club than one that isn’t and doesn’t. He may have made mistakes over the years but ultimately he picks up the tab.
     
    #27
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  8. invermeremike

    invermeremike Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you on that front Ashton and yet I have often wondered why with such a committed owner we have not achieved more. I can remember seeing Coppell's first interview and noticed how uncomfortable he looked which led me to think he wouldn't hang around long, which proved to be the case. In fairness to him he kept his mouth shut and made us wonder what the hell had just happened which led me, and many others, to speculate that he had been sold a bill of goods by SL and that possibly any of his decisions could be overturned on a whim from higher up the totem pole.

    Could have should have doesn't cut it anymore as we have bigger fish to fry. I just want my team back on the pitch because now I have very little to moan about.

    Stay safe one and all. P.S. where's the emoji with a face mask???<doh>
     
    #28
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  9. AshtonRed

    AshtonRed Well-Known Member

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    It didn’t help having to spend so much time effort and money trying to get the stadium sorted, I believe it put us back several years, I also believe it was the desire to move on that was the deciding factor behind the decision to develop Ashton Gate rather than keep pursuing Ashton Vale, which in my view was the preferred option. Once the new training facility is finished that will take us to another level, after all it’s the place where day to day the players and coaches spend most of there time and having state of the art facilities is bound to help.

    like you I can’t wait for the players to be back on the pitch, with a full stadium cheering them on.
     
    #29
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  10. johngalleyfan2

    johngalleyfan2 Well-Known Member

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    that would be good a cobbled together group of buildings bit like a patchwork quilt and difficult to maintain over a few decades and not in keeping with the progress the club wish to make … glad that never happened to its fullest extent

    wonderful, staying within the rules set down by the hierarchy and within the law SL has millions and the last thing he would wish is that it all went to tax when his time comes … bit like leaving your house to the kids x years before you pop your clogs … long may it reign

    Ashton gate COMPLEX is becoming self sufficient, HAS BEEN LAID FOR ALL to understand how secondary income will work …. as BORIS says common sense … the individual sports share toward the running costs .. to technically they put money in the "maintenance budget" fantastic system .. probably why other clubs are looking outside football /sport to supplement income

    all clubs are successful some less successful than others.
    100% YOUR COMMENTS #29 previous post
     
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  11. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Ashton Gate was redeveloped in a linear manner and the same approach could have been used.

    Mr Lansdown described it as embarrassing. I would disagree with his harsh assessment but would question judgement of decision leading to positions where huge cost cutting has to be made over seasons and regular loans of tens of millions to balance the books.


    Bristol City FC are not self sufficient. And will not be under the present path being pursued.
     
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    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  12. johngalleyfan2

    johngalleyfan2 Well-Known Member

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    THATS ALL IN THE PAST
    DIDNT SAY BCFC were self sufficient said ashton gate was becoming ...you always need to look at the wider picture and what it is aimed at achieving was mentioned in my post somewhere ...
    it wasn't so no issue there SL came along and just got on with it done ...except for the last quarter which will incresae capacity then up to 35000 if designed correctly
     
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  13. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Yes the past which shaped Mr Lansdown's re-structuring of the FC.

    Yes. I used the wider picture. Bristol City is not self sufficient - A deliberate model (including other elements) of Mr Lansdown's making.

    Yes exactly the point I made. It was not an issue to develop the ground linearly.
     
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  14. johngalleyfan2

    johngalleyfan2 Well-Known Member

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    really then why say it could be done in dribs and drabs, I would argue the use of the word linearly, basically a mathematical state [ formula/ algebraic ] it is in its general form matrix or vector solution finding/ solving

    no you didn't " you stated BCFC is not self sufficient" no mention of ASHTON GATE … and BCFC IS A PART OF THAT under the banner OF Bristol sport. The concept of SL is that the top sports should be available under one roof for the people of Bristol to enjoy [ he made his money and built his foundation (s) from the money of the people of BRISTOL and this is way of paying some back. ALL sports will benefit form having one maintenance bill... that is the wider picture not BCFC IS NON SUFFICIENT … THEY contribute a smaller sum so have more to spend on BCFC …

    IS IT A RESTRUCTURING of BCFC or restructuring of sport in Bristol [ the wider picture ] don't answer it though as not really interested.
     
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  15. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    I did not. It could have. There were numerous alternatives.

    Yes I did. My use of model refers to BCFC within Bristol Sport. Mr Lansdown is obviously prepared to run BCFC at a significant loss for the long term within that model.
     
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  16. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    Bought bricks for one of them. A new East End. There were plans to build a new Dolman as well. Loads of planss. Colin Sexstone wanted to put exec boxes along the back of the Dolman was one. Colin Sexstones job was redeveloping Ashton Gate or Ashton Vale.
     
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  17. johngalleyfan2

    johngalleyfan2 Well-Known Member

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    sometimes one has to be seen "wanting to do them"
     
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  18. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    Colin Sexstone wanted it done. Went to his presentations and it had a start date with fans buying into the buy a brick scheme (it wasnt much £35 a brick I think). Then Steve Lansdown changed his mind. then when AV didn't happen changed it back. The architects for the redevelopment of AG used part of the original 2005 plans because they new how high stands would be.
     
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  19. johngalleyfan2

    johngalleyfan2 Well-Known Member

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    but whether you look at it from this way or that way SL was the key... it was going to be a one off hit … develop AV or develop AG, it wasn't going to be lets build that corner, or add a bit to the height … a one off hit. The other factor [ they had to keep some areas for fans to watch from of course ] the other factor was they didn't want to make it a 35000 ish because most games would have been half empty ........ get to the prem! 27500 every week and we might see more development.
     
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  20. BCFCRob

    BCFCRob Well-Known Member

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    Yeah there was, my post was about plans pre-SL I think mind. Didn't the plans for the exec boxes at the back of the Dolman include a lift at the side of the stand to get there? Very weird.
     
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