£9.05M

[brb]

At first you see it, then you don't, then it reappears again. So what am i talking about!?

Well as alwaysright often reminds me, I'm more blind than the ref, so as you can imagine, when i read companies house, i just struggle when faced with lots of numbers.

Even a magician couldn't make £9.05M disappear even if he was the late Paul Daniels, unless you was a very special magician, as if he was HOLDING (pun intended) a top hat, ready to pull something bigger than a rabbit out or was it going in to the hat, oh i'm confused.

More confused than the March Hare at a Mad Hatters tea party struggling to explain the financial movements of loans and interest repayments, at first you see it, then you don't. Oops it's back again...

You must log in or register to see images

Discuss in your wittiest style...

 

[alwaysright]

brb
Didn't I underwrite a loan £10 you took out a few years ago? I know that you never paid it back - and I covered the debt - to stop you having to sell your house to pay it back. Eventually I even offered to 'write off ' the debt - because you were never going to be able to afford to repay even the interest due.-- but

I now find myself with a cashflow problem - especially after recently having to pay for my garden to be landscaped! Forget the fact that my income, from my 'employment' is still around £250,000 a year -- fewer people are 'buying' my products , and I need to protect my interest - and need to gather as much money as I can - as I approach my pension years.......... so,

I would like you to give me back the money - and I don't care if it 'breaks' you - I am not - or ever have been a charity case.

- nor am I here to satisfy your need for wit.

 

[brb]

brb
Didn't I underwrite a loan £10 you took out a few years ago? I know that you never paid it back - and I covered the debt - to stop you having to sell your house to pay it back. Eventually I even offered to 'write off ' the debt - because you were never going to be able to afford to repay even the interest due.-- but

I now find myself with a cashflow problem - especially after recently having to pay for my garden to be landscaped! Forget the fact that my income, from my 'employment' is still around £250,000 a year -- fewer people are 'buying' my products , and I need to protect my interest - and need to gather as much money as I can - as I approach my pension years.......... so,

I would like you to give me back the money - and I don't care if it 'breaks' you - I am not - or ever have been a charity case.

- nor am I here to satisfy your need for wit.

''especially after recently paying for my garden to be landscaped'

 

[brb]

Ok, so here's a question for everyone. If there is a debt of over 9M sitting in Holdings, that may well be in the Chairman's name, but surely that affects any future sale?

If it was me, I'm not just going to walk away with a few Mill' knowing i've got 9M hanging over me. I'd want the debt cleared in the Holding Company before we even got to the cost of the club sale.

 

[alwaysright]

brb -
You have surely posed a rhetorical question ? The answer you have given it, is very much relevant. The debtor's name is not ! The fact is - the debt exists - and despite any magic tricks, it always has existed - and always will exist.

GFC are currently not the most attractive investment anyone could wish to make. In terms of investing in a 'football' venture, GFC are even less of an attractive investment - compared with several ( many ) other clubs - either in L1, or the Championship. There are plenty of these clubs to whom a prospective investor would be drawn - long before they would give GFC any consideration. GFC will not be in any position to be considered for investment until it achieves Championship status -- and even then it will barely share the same odds of securing an investor.

There is little chance of GFC again getting promotion to the Championship in our present circumstances. The best we can hope for is to produce one or two players who will have the skill to propel us up the league - before they are snapped up cheaply ( a-la- Dack ) - just to service the interest on our debt.................... I don't expect the situation to see a change anytime soon ! ( you have more chance of pulling rabbits out of hats )

These days, watching football is an expensive hobby. Thankfully I have the financial resources to indulge myself. Owning a football club is a very expensive 'hobby' for most owners. The only realistic chance of any owner / investor of a football club, for any financial 'gain' on their investment, is if they have money in a club in the Premiership - and even then it needs to be one of the top 6 ( perhaps only the top 4 ). Many of the owners of these 'lucrative' clubs treat them as an expensive hobby - and can afford to 'write-off' the money they spend on their 'toy.'.

In our circumstances - the 'identity' of the debtor is irrelevant. The debt exists, and I don't think that anyone of us would simply walk away without trying to recover as much of it as possible - and that mindset must surely apply to the person who is owed £ 9 Million by GFC. I would defy anyone of us to think differently...... So - I don't blame the debtor for expecting a return of his money - but - in terms of the size of the value of GFC, any debt of £900,000 ( let alone 10 times that figure ), is far too much to waste on a hobby - when there are much shinier toys to play with..........
............ just how much more philosophy do you want out of me - I might have to consider charging you lot for the privilege of my wisdom ( £ 9. 05 a time ).

 

[brb]

brb -
You have surely posed a rhetorical question ? The answer you have given it, is very much relevant. The debtor's name is not ! The fact is - the debt exists - and despite any magic tricks, it always has existed - and always will exist.

GFC are currently not the most attractive investment anyone could wish to make. In terms of investing in a 'football' venture, GFC are even less of an attractive investment - compared with several ( many ) other clubs - either in L1, or the Championship. There are plenty of these clubs to whom a prospective investor would be drawn - long before they would give GFC any consideration. GFC will not be in any position to be considered for investment until it achieves Championship status -- and even then it will barely share the same odds of securing an investor.

There is little chance of GFC again getting promotion to the Championship in our present circumstances. The best we can hope for is to produce one or two players who will have the skill to propel us up the league - before they are snapped up cheaply ( a-la- Dack ) - just to service the interest on our debt.................... I don't expect the situation to see a change anytime soon ! ( you have more chance of pulling rabbits out of hats )

These days, watching football is an expensive hobby. Thankfully I have the financial resources to indulge myself. Owning a football club is a very expensive 'hobby' for most owners. The only realistic chance of any owner / investor of a football club, for any financial 'gain' on their investment, is if they have money in a club in the Premiership - and even then it needs to be one of the top 6 ( perhaps only the top 4 ). Many of the owners of these 'lucrative' clubs treat them as an expensive hobby - and can afford to 'write-off' the money they spend on their 'toy.'.

In our circumstances - the 'identity' of the debtor is irrelevant. The debt exists, and I don't think that anyone of us would simply walk away without trying to recover as much of it as possible - and that mindset must surely apply to the person who is owed £ 9 Million by GFC. I would defy anyone of us to think differently...... So - I don't blame the debtor for expecting a return of his money - but - in terms of the size of the value of GFC, any debt of £900,000 ( let alone 10 times that figure ), is far too much to waste on a hobby - when there are much shinier toys to play with..........
............ just how much more philosophy do you want out of me - I might have to consider charging you lot for the privilege of my wisdom ( £ 9. 05 a time ).

So next question, i i guess the five year plan, which im sure has already expired and chances of the new ground, we have as much chance of seeing as Rudolf has of pulling Santa on Christmas Eve?

I still remember everyone drooling over the latter prospect...no not rudolf....the new ground! We can't even afford a brick (banter, legal eagles).

Oh and remind me, ive forgotten already, who are our Sponsors? Hey, now there's an idea, i wonder if the Sponsors have a Holding account going spare.

 

[grumpygit]

brb you have hit on the root cause of our lack of playing budget this year, WHAT SPONORSHIP.
I'm sure Medway Council haven't given us any financial sponsorship meaning less funds, if you look at a match day programme there are very few player sponsors.
With low crowds and no cup runs our budget is probably less than a lot of league 2 clubs and probably richer National league clubs.

 

[brb]

brb you have hit on the root cause of our lack of playing budget this year, WHAT SPONORSHIP.
I'm sure Medway Council haven't given us any financial sponsorship meaning less funds, if you look at a match day programme there are very few player sponsors.
With low crowds and no cup runs our budget is probably less than a lot of league 2 clubs and probably richer National league clubs.

Changing subject slightly, did you see the attendance for yesterday;

2,224 (126 Hartlepool)

I do understand why they restricted the stands, but i also think it had a negative impact, because a lot of the RE supporters will not occupy the MS imho. Plus with the weather this time of year it's more open to the elements than the RE. Not really sure why any club would close it's more vocal home support terrace. Plus shifting STHolders out of the GRS is never the brightest idea.

Surely we would have been better to give a couple of thousand tickets away to schools and make up the cost of stewarding the game on merchandise. I know the club may put this down as a loss game financially but surely that's when you should be doing your free promotions, not giving league match tickets away for five quid, which i thought was an absolute joke at the time!

I was going to go yesterday, but as soon has i found out they were messing about with the stands, I decided sod it (hence that negative impact).

 

[grumpygit]

Changing subject slightly, did you see the attendance for yesterday;

2,224 (126 Hartlepool)

I do understand why they restricted the stands, but i also think it had a negative impact, because a lot of the RE supporters will not occupy the MS imho. Plus with the weather this time of year it's more open to the elements than the RE. Not really sure why any club would close it's more vocal home support terrace. Plus shifting STHolders out of the GRS is never the brightest idea.

Surely we would have been better to give a couple of thousand tickets away to schools and make up the cost of stewarding the game on merchandise. I know the club may put this down as a loss game financially but surely that's when you should be doing your free promotions, not giving league match tickets away for five quid, which i thought was an absolute joke at the time!

I was going to go yesterday, but as soon has i found out they were messing about with the stands, I decided sod it (hence that negative impact).

I know what your saying but it isn't just this year, I've looked back over a few years (home attendances only) and they're all bad.

04/11/17 …...round 1 …...3,659. Leyton Orient.
02/12/17 …...round 2 …...3,178. Carlisle.
05/11/16 …...round 1 …...2,410. Brackley.
08/11/14 …...round 1 …...2,654. Bristol City.

None of those are big draws, if it was Manu it would be a sellout.
So who would the "supporters" be going there to see, us or them.

 

[alwaysright]

Scally hasn't been ALL bad !.................. and that comes from someone who has been critical of him for a long time.
brb -In 1995 Scally's business expertise rescued GFC from oblivion. He paid £ 1 for the Club ( I think it's been the only personal money that he has invested.) He persuaded creditors to accept a pittance of what they were owed.

We then had a period of relative prosperity - both on and off the pitch. I accept that we ( Scally ), had bad luck with the collapse of ITV Digital. Undoubtedly that was the root cause of our financial woes. At the same time, Scally is embroiled in several disputes with players, managers and other business 'partners.' All of these distractions seemed to have an adverse affect of what took place on the pitch - and the team have, basically, been on a gradual downward spiral for quite a while.

Much of the negative factors that GFC have experienced during Scally's tenure, have had nothing to do with football - and it is the non-footballing issues that, in my opinion, have been responsible for the Club's inability to attract investment. Then you have to factor in the 'dictatorship' that Scally runs at GFC. It is alleged that he is a control freak - and this is a major issue for any prospective investor/ new owner.

I can understand Scally's viewpoint - as it relates to looking after his financial position. If he has underwritten a debt owed by the Club - then he is entitled to recover his money. At the same time, he is in a position of receiving a large 'consultancy' fee each year - from a struggling L1 club - so---------------- he won't be in a hurry to relinquish his hold of the golden goose................ THEREFORE

For all the good that Mr.Scally has done for GFC, he is holding us back -- or should I say - dragging us back to the financial position in which GFC found themselves before Scally arrived. The Club is bigger than any one person. Scally has had a very nice lifestyle at the expense of the fans ( Dubai etc ). This level of 'extravagance' was not available for the creditors who Scally persuaded to accept 16 pence in the £. Scally needs to remember those proportions as he seeks to demand 100% of what he is owed.

It appears that Mr.Scally has lost much of his 'business' ability. Gillingham Football Club - No money, No sponsor , No investment , No future ! If the Club is to have any chance of not slipping into non league ( or out of existence ), Mr.Scally must go. Scally claims to 'care' about GFC. If he does, he needs to go. If he only cares about Paul Scally, he'll probably become a property developer (( at least the gardens at the new homes will have a decent lawn.))

 

[brb]

I know what your saying but it isn't just this year, I've looked back over a few years (home attendances only) and they're all bad.

04/11/17 …...round 1 …...3,659. Leyton Orient.
02/12/17 …...round 2 …...3,178. Carlisle.
05/11/16 …...round 1 …...2,410. Brackley.
08/11/14 …...round 1 …...2,654. Bristol City.

None of those are big draws, if it was Manu it would be a sellout.
So who would the "supporters" be going there to see, us or them.

Good bit of research grumpygit

Although i would still question the closure of the RE. Even if you took the LOWEST attendance there, Brackley, it was still 186 supporters more than attended yesterday. So a lost of revenue of around 2.7k - that excludes merchandise sales, programmes, food, drinks. I would argue that the latter is one of the more profitable revenue streams. When i went to the Fleetwood game the weekend before, i bought paella for a fiver and a programme for three quid. So in that one game, i spent more than half the cost of a ticket yesterday, the person i was with did the same. I said i was also going to go yesterday, but when i heard they were messing about with stand closures, i couldn't be asked...I'm honest! So they lost in comparison to equivalent purchases in the previous game £23. Now times that by the amount of missing supporters from your LOWEST attendance, we lost £4,278, which is larger than the bottom line profit made by GFC in 2017! Yeah but what about stewarding costs and other employees for a couple of hours work i hear you say - how much would you like, 2k? If so, i still made you a bigger profit margin then 2017 without much effort. Ok, I'm talking daft, but if we had given 2k of tickets away to schools for free, i pretty much guess most those kids would have spent £5-10 - even if they all only spent a fiver each, i just made you 10 grand. If the club thinks negatively it will be repaid in negative value, yesterday was one of those days and that is no motivation for players either.

I'm sure i could cause an argument in a mirror

 

[brb]

Scally hasn't been ALL bad !.................. and that comes from someone who has been critical of him for a long time.
brb -In 1995 Scally's business expertise rescued GFC from oblivion. He paid £ 1 for the Club ( I think it's been the only personal money that he has invested.) He persuaded creditors to accept a pittance of what they were owed.

We then had a period of relative prosperity - both on and off the pitch. I accept that we ( Scally ), had bad luck with the collapse of ITV Digital. Undoubtedly that was the root cause of our financial woes. At the same time, Scally is embroiled in several disputes with players, managers and other business 'partners.' All of these distractions seemed to have an adverse affect of what took place on the pitch - and the team have, basically, been on a gradual downward spiral for quite a while.

Much of the negative factors that GFC have experienced during Scally's tenure, have had nothing to do with football - and it is the non-footballing issues that, in my opinion, have been responsible for the Club's inability to attract investment. Then you have to factor in the 'dictatorship' that Scally runs at GFC. It is alleged that he is a control freak - and this is a major issue for any prospective investor/ new owner.

I can understand Scally's viewpoint - as it relates to looking after his financial position. If he has underwritten a debt owed by the Club - then he is entitled to recover his money. At the same time, he is in a position of receiving a large 'consultancy' fee each year - from a struggling L1 club - so---------------- he won't be in a hurry to relinquish his hold of the golden goose................ THEREFORE

For all the good that Mr.Scally has done for GFC, he is holding us back -- or should I say - dragging us back to the financial position in which GFC found themselves before Scally arrived. The Club is bigger than any one person. Scally has had a very nice lifestyle at the expense of the fans ( Dubai etc ). This level of 'extravagance' was not available for the creditors who Scally persuaded to accept 16 pence in the £. Scally needs to remember those proportions as he seeks to demand 100% of what he is owed.

It appears that Mr.Scally has lost much of his 'business' ability. Gillingham Football Club - No money, No sponsor , No investment , No future ! If the Club is to have any chance of not slipping into non league ( or out of existence ), Mr.Scally must go. Scally claims to 'care' about GFC. If he does, he needs to go. If he only cares about Paul Scally, he'll probably become a property developer (( at least the gardens at the new homes will have a decent lawn.))

I've always supported Scally, however, that's just my nature. The problem i have is, when i look at the reality of the financial bottom line i can't disagree with what you say. There is many a opinion i could bring up about past events, but to save me the pain of legal eagles, I will save that for the pub. But if i'm honest, I'm running out of excuses for the Chairman to stay, but then i've never wanted anything more than L1 football, so here i go again, clouding my judgement and giving the man at the top benefit of doubt

 

[brb]

Sod it, while i'm on a roll. The club allocated the number 13 shirt to the Rainham End, yesterday the number 13 shirt was so respected by the club, it was locked out the Rainham End

 

[grumpygit]

Good bit of research grumpygit

Although i would still question the closure of the RE. Even if you took the LOWEST attendance there, Brackley, it was still 186 supporters more than attended yesterday. So a lost of revenue of around 2.7k - that excludes merchandise sales, programmes, food, drinks. I would argue that the latter is one of the more profitable revenue streams. When i went to the Fleetwood game the weekend before, i bought paella for a fiver and a programme for three quid. So in that one game, i spent more than half the cost of a ticket yesterday, the person i was with did the same. I said i was also going to go yesterday, but when i heard they were messing about with stand closures, i couldn't be asked...I'm honest! So they lost in comparison to equivalent purchases in the previous game £23. Now times that by the amount of missing supporters from your LOWEST attendance, we lost £4,278, which is larger than the bottom line profit made by GFC in 2017! Yeah but what about stewarding costs and other employees for a couple of hours work i hear you say - how much would you like, 2k? If so, i still made you a bigger profit margin then 2017 without much effort. Ok, I'm talking daft, but if we had given 2k of tickets away to schools for free, i pretty much guess most those kids would have spent £5-10 - even if they all only spent a fiver each, i just made you 10 grand. If the club thinks negatively it will be repaid in negative value, yesterday was one of those days and that is no motivation for players either.

I'm sure i could cause an argument in a mirror

Whilst you put up a good argument for a couple of thousand pound on yesterdays gate you say nothing about the lack of support for the EFL trophy.
Teams who take this seriously can earn £10,000 for each win in the group stages, a total of £30,000 if you win all 3, then there are gate receipts and merchandising on top, teams who reach the final (a realistic possibility) can earn £500,000 yet fans look down their nose at the competition.

 

[grumpygit]

I've always supported Scally, however, that's just my nature. The problem i have is, when i look at the reality of the financial bottom line i can't disagree with what you say. There is many a opinion i could bring up about past events, but to save me the pain of legal eagles, I will save that for the pub. But if I'm honest, I'm running out of excuses for the Chairman to stay, but then i've never wanted anything more than L1 football, so here i go again, clouding my judgement and giving the man at the top benefit of doubt

As you know I'm a bit long in the tooth and have been going to Priestfield since the 50's, no chairman in that time has invested more in the ground or the team than Scally, he's not perfect by any means but I do worry about who might replace him if he goes.

 

[alwaysright]

As you know I'm a bit long in the tooth and have been going to Priestfield since the 50's, no chairman in that time has invested more in the ground or the team than Scally, he's not perfect by any means but I do worry about who might replace him if he goes.

grumpygit -
I am in no 'fear' of Scally's replacement. I would like to think that the level of financial input couldn''t be a lot lower than currently exists. What I do fear is the current state of affairs - with no money being used for acquiring players - for several years. ....... during which we have received several £ Millions in transfer fees.

I do understand it when Mr. Scally justifies the retention of all the transfer, and add-on money - as necessary to balance the books -- but that very point must surely make it critical to attract as much money as possible. Mr. Scally cannot simply say that he will only sell the club if the deal is right -- for who ? - the deal that Mr.Scally offered the creditors in 1993 wasn't good for them - but their 'sacrifice' meant that GFC continued and were not bankrupt by those creditors.

If Mr. Scally refuses to compromise in relation to the terms of what control he is willing to relinquish - or what financial package he is willing to accept ((and which won't ruin us )) - if he continues to do nothing ( or is incapable of doing anything to improve our financial position ), it will only get worse - and I suspect that demise might be achieved quite rapidly.

Doing nothing is not an option. I don't expect Mr. Scally to walk away and write-off [all] the money GFC owe him - but if Mr. Scally does nothing, I believe that Priestfield is destined to be turned into Scally Street housing long before you have lost all your teeth.

 

[brb]

Whilst you put up a good argument for a couple of thousand pound on yesterdays gate you say nothing about the lack of support for the EFL trophy.

You never asked me about the EFL Trophy

But as you mentioned it...

Do you really think that i am going to support a trophy that has been formatted to allow the entry of Premiership B Teams! The topic was money, the Premiership take all the money, which is why we are in the continued mess we are in today. The FA wanted to break away from the League after a bitter dispute, so they sided with the clubs (as rule makers) to agree to an Elite forum of clubs. They got Sky, we got On-Digital, need i say more.

The Premiership not happy with their pot of gold then tried to insert pressure on league clubs to allow B Teams into the EFL, the clubs gave a resounding NO! The Premiership then went away and sneaked in via the backdoor. That then created a boycott that is still in place today.

I agree it does generate additional revenue which was our initial topic. Well then maybe SL needed to take the competition more seriously by naming a full first team 11. But like the supporters we have enough trophies that always were suffice to us before 1983-84.

My priorities are as follows in order, League One, FA Cup, League Cup. I think you will find since the inclusion of B Teams attendances have been dropping (to answer your question), hopefully that will send a clear message to the powers that be, because if they allow B Teams into the League it will be the final nail in our coffin.

I bet you are so glad you asked now

 

[alwaysright]

brb
Between you and me, poor old grumpygit is probably pulling out his hair (( he hasn't got any teeth left to extract )

 

[alwaysright]

I notice that the '' oracle" ( Tim ), on our financial ' position ' is not joining the thread - mind you, that would probably finish off grumpygit !

 

[grumpygit]

brb
Between you and me, poor old grumpygit is probably pulling out his hair (( he hasn't got any teeth left to extract )

If you think I've got any hair to pull out then you should have gone to specsavers.