Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...
- Thread starter LuisDiazgamechanger
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Interestingly I think some form of PR would help the two parties in their current situation. It would allow the Hard right to split and possibly work with UKIP, DUP and or the Centre Right on specific issues while not having to pretend to cooperate on others.
The Momentum side of Labour could split working with the various other left parties that would probably get seats under the system, and with Labour, Lib Dems and SDLP on specific issues while disagreeing on others.
You'd have a balancing of parliament with power switching between the centre right Tories and Centre Left Labour, cooperating on shared views and using smaller parties to push through other govt agenda they can't agree on.
It's what PR system to use and convincing the public to agree to it.
when they wrote house of cards orginally this was the script. its crazy what going on.
Because our media are generally more concerned with our own issues.
I'm sure there'll be plenty on the subject if you care to look - but it's probably best to look a little further than the Express if you want any sort of balanced factual account.
Britain's obsession with 'fair play' and supposed 'democracy' will see us take a huge unnecessary boat load of pain based solely on the back of a ****ing opinion poll.
As with all opinion polls all they ever provide is the consensus view at any one moment in time. A snapshot at that moment in time.
If last weeks referendum had been run again yesterday, post the ripping to shreds of the Leave campaigns promises and the economic realities of the situation in the longer term starting to dawn on people i.e. there'll be no net fiscal gain after all of this, with the likelihood being that we'll still end up with an open border....then Remain would have won by a street.
Now we face the ridiculous situation were MP's will have to vote on this subject in the winter, and the old British sense of 'fair play' will probably see them vote against their beliefs in the main and see this nonsense home. And why? because the electorate spoke. Yeah they did - on one ****ing day, before they realised they'd been lied to.
I doubt the same sense of 'do the right thing' would come into play in any other sane Nation on Earth.
As with all opinion polls all they ever provide is the consensus view at any one moment in time. A snapshot at that moment in time.
If last weeks referendum had been run again yesterday, post the ripping to shreds of the Leave campaigns promises and the economic realities of the situation in the longer term starting to dawn on people i.e. there'll be no net fiscal gain after all of this, with the likelihood being that we'll still end up with an open border....then Remain would have won by a street.
Now we face the ridiculous situation were MP's will have to vote on this subject in the winter, and the old British sense of 'fair play' will probably see them vote against their beliefs in the main and see this nonsense home. And why? because the electorate spoke. Yeah they did - on one ****ing day, before they realised they'd been lied to.
I doubt the same sense of 'do the right thing' would come into play in any other sane Nation on Earth.
Sadly I don't think it would win by any sort of large margin and honestly... i think the majority of tories are pleased.
we are out and nothing is going to stop it.
we are out and nothing is going to stop it.
I'm not convinced there'd be a huge swing either, tbh.
It reinforces my belief that the vote was carried out on the principle of "Just get us out of Europe, regardless of the consequences".
Because the sky hasn't fallen in just yet and is merely hovering with intent, the Leavers are taking this as vindication of their decision. They seem unable to grasp that the real repercussions lie further down the line. Osborne's admission that we no longer have any chance of getting out of debt and warnings of further austerity are just white noise to those who don't want to hear. When it does all come about after time they'll just blame it on someone else - anybody else - anyway.
I see the usual suspects are still at their same old game of politics. All the leadership stuff reeks of personal ambition over any concern for the future of the rest of us. The same attitude that got us into this hole just digs us deeper.
It reinforces my belief that the vote was carried out on the principle of "Just get us out of Europe, regardless of the consequences".
Because the sky hasn't fallen in just yet and is merely hovering with intent, the Leavers are taking this as vindication of their decision. They seem unable to grasp that the real repercussions lie further down the line. Osborne's admission that we no longer have any chance of getting out of debt and warnings of further austerity are just white noise to those who don't want to hear. When it does all come about after time they'll just blame it on someone else - anybody else - anyway.
I see the usual suspects are still at their same old game of politics. All the leadership stuff reeks of personal ambition over any concern for the future of the rest of us. The same attitude that got us into this hole just digs us deeper.
I agree with your sentiment Tobes, but disagree with the conclusion. The majority of half-witted Out voters I spoke to before the election (even one family member) were probably well aware the £350m was nonsense and that we'd have to accept free movement if we stay in the single market. Think one or two were thick enough to believe it would 'Get rid of 'dem Muslims' (even though one or two thick Muslims still think they'll be able to get MORE Muslims over when the Poles go), but I don't think there's anything like a 4% swing in it. In fact, one Remainer I spoke to yesterday was saying 'It looks like the financial armageddon isn't going to happen'....
Now, if we ran it again in five years.....
I agree that the nuggets wouldn't be moved mate, but I think there's a sensible majority sat in between who would vote differently now the lies have been fully exposed and the predicted economic downturn wasn't the 'doom mongering' it was written off as.
I've spoken to plenty who have said they'd have not voted the way they did if they'd have realised that it'd actually happen ffs! A mistimed protest vote if you like, unreal
Honestly things are get past one thing at a time.
Right now the roofs not fallen in. the markets are bouncing round on the basis of everyone's said we can pump in money here and there and they are all happy. The pound has dropped as a result of that stimulus.
We can't tell where thats going.
The threat for taxes and cuts have been binned in favor of borrowing.
so the next things to occur are?
1. tories pick a leader
2. Leader put stuff in front of parliament
3. article 50 is threatened... I am not sure they will formally activate and might just say hey time to talk.. then the response is interesting
4. article 50 is activated.
when i don;t know... what decisions are being taken out there now? have jobs been frozen? Have decisions to move jobs out been taken? will we go into recession?
What will happen on the moment article 50 is activated?
We just don't know.
Right now the roofs not fallen in. the markets are bouncing round on the basis of everyone's said we can pump in money here and there and they are all happy. The pound has dropped as a result of that stimulus.
We can't tell where thats going.
The threat for taxes and cuts have been binned in favor of borrowing.
so the next things to occur are?
1. tories pick a leader
2. Leader put stuff in front of parliament
3. article 50 is threatened... I am not sure they will formally activate and might just say hey time to talk.. then the response is interesting
4. article 50 is activated.
when i don;t know... what decisions are being taken out there now? have jobs been frozen? Have decisions to move jobs out been taken? will we go into recession?
What will happen on the moment article 50 is activated?
We just don't know.
We do know.
When article 50 is activated, there will an almighty crash: both in the currency and the stock market. Because it is like someone has just fired the starting gun for 2 years of uncertainty for this is what negotiations for leaving mean. Why do you think that merkel and friends have so vocally ruled out any talks prior to the article 50 being triggered? That gives them a huge advantage over the UK. It's like your employers waiting for you to submit an irrevocable resignation from your current job when you are kept in the dark about redundancy payment, of new job prospects, of the ****ty reference they may give you. What will happen to the industries like banking, car making, etc during this uncertainty?
The leave side frequently said that stupid phrase " we sell more than we buy from them so they will do a deal". Because the first part is true does not mean that the second is true. The Uk represents only a fraction of their overall market (7%) whilst the EU represents nearly 50% of ours. If the negotiations are ****ed up, who will be more at risk ? Yes a deal will be done but on their terms. They have declared in total agreement that Free movement of people is an ESSENTIAL part of the any deal. Take it or leave it. They have too much to lose by Brexit spreading over the continent.
We'll trigger article 50 and gratefully take any deal that Merkel will give us to allow us to trade. It will be quick as a quick ****ty deal is better than 2,years of market uncertainty.
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isn't it ironic that weve been put in this kind of crisis which endanger our future and that of many generations by just a few scumbags?
Cameron: calling the referendum because he wanted to "unite" his party. Sounds like a bad joke now, doesn't it?
Boris: he wanted to get Cameron's job. He was not keen on real Brexit but he carried the whole campaign and won for them. Does anyone really think that IDS, patel, leadsome, Gisela would have swayed the country?
Corbyn: he was and is still really a Brexiteer. He actively campaigned against IN whilst "leading" the IN side. Look at that clip where he pretended to forget what to say, took some notes from his pocket and read from it like a school child reading in class. Pathetic acting.
And all three have been/ are being thrown out!!
Cameron: calling the referendum because he wanted to "unite" his party. Sounds like a bad joke now, doesn't it?
Boris: he wanted to get Cameron's job. He was not keen on real Brexit but he carried the whole campaign and won for them. Does anyone really think that IDS, patel, leadsome, Gisela would have swayed the country?
Corbyn: he was and is still really a Brexiteer. He actively campaigned against IN whilst "leading" the IN side. Look at that clip where he pretended to forget what to say, took some notes from his pocket and read from it like a school child reading in class. Pathetic acting.
And all three have been/ are being thrown out!!
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