DAILY MAIL: Tensions continuing to grow between Koeman and Reed

The main difference between Les and Ron is that Les is here for longer term. He probably has the long term vision of sustainability which includes bringing through the youth players. Ron is here for another season after this (?) so I expect his goal is short term gain so that he has a shot at Barcelona or similar next time rather than develop the younger players at the potential sacrifice of a higher league position and reputation.

I can't imagine for one moment that Les is unaware of this though, so as many have said its a non starter for a story. Ron also has the benefit of drawing higher profile players, if Les was truly against this we would have opted for a Howe/Adkins type rather than Ron.

On a side point, I'm not sure if this has been brought up on another thread, but is anyone cringing every time the new 'motivational' we march on video comes onto the big screens on matchday? I know it means well but it makes my skin crawl...

Between 2006 and 2012 an academy player had to be of Championship or League One quality to make it into the first team. In our first year up they had to be Premier League standard. Now they have to be top half of the Premier League standard.

Of course the supply of suitable academy candidates will have shrunk.

Vin

Onionman said:

Between 2006 and 2012 an academy player had to be of Championship or League One quality to make it into the first team. In our first year up they had to be Premier League standard. Now they have to be top half of the Premier League standard.

Of course the supply of suitable academy candidates will have shrunk.

Vin

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Good post.

Saint Muppet said:

Good post.

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Onionman said:

Between 2006 and 2012 an academy player had to be of Championship or League One quality to make it into the first team. In our first year up they had to be Premier League standard. Now they have to be top half of the Premier League standard.

Of course the supply of suitable academy candidates will have shrunk.

Vin

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And yet between 2006 and 2012 we were developing talent that we would go on to sell to top 5 clubs, where they now play. It's because we sell them that the supply shrinks...

It depends what you want as a club - we've probably made significantly more than we spent on them, hell they may even have paid for Staplewood and most of our current squad if you add it up.
The downside? We won't be in the top 4 anytime soon.

What is the problem with Fonte's contract that the article refers to....he wants another contract or won't sign another one? There was an allusion to it a week or so ago, but never heard what the problem was.

fran-MLs little camera said:

What is the problem with Fonte's contract that the article refers to....he wants another contract or won't sign another one? There was an allusion to it a week or so ago, but never heard what the problem was.

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This is all I could find but it's just speculation by the look of it
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/southampton-defender-jose-fonte-sparks-6178842

All this article is Ashton seeing us look weak atm. So he decides to put the boot in while he can.

I would expect there to be tensions between Koeman and Reed. That is part of the job.

One thing about Pochettino was that he was always very good about getting young players into the side. I'm not just talking about Chambers or Shaw who arguably were natural talents. He would regularly substitute young players in at the end of games, even if the score were close.

That said, JWP is not playing on merit. It's not like that is a particularly strong position for us. He got a good run of starts in last season and to me just wasn't good enough. And he would still have gotten plenty of playing time had we not crashed out of Europa.

Targett is playing. You can argue that it's only because Bertrand is injured. But on the other hand, it's expected that Bertrand would be injured at times or need a break. So there was enough playing time and opportunity for him. We could have gotten another LB, but we didn't because of Targett. Now I think some are wishing we had.

And beyond all that, I don't necessarily have a problem with players going out on loan. If done right, those players get a chance to play every game, instead of maybe every third game. MP thought it was better to train with the team, and that might be fine for his system. But it's not the only way. I thought the Turnbull loan was very successful last year. He is still only 20. I mean, how many of us right now would be comfortable with Turnbull starting games? I would argue that Lallana and Schneiderlin got as good as they were precisely because they played everyday and went through the trenches at the lower levels rather than sporadic PL appearances.

The only guy I would really question Koeman about is Reed. Not saying he should start, but he is a guy that Koeman could find more playing time for, and IMO has not.

But this is why going out at Europa is so annoying. If we'd made it to the group stage there would have been plenty of game time for JWP, Targett, Reed and some others. Some will disagree, but I would have been just fine with us going all out to advance but getting 3-4 extra games for those players. Between that and the domestic cups, there would have been plenty of playing time. Now there isn't.

If we were in the group stages, Ronald would play the strongest team every time. However, I suppose the players more on the fringe might (by necessity) have got games in the League Cup.

There's tension between the Pope and God. Frankly, the latter's made a pig's ear of planet earth, how would you feel if you were Francis I having to turn a bunch of sinners, idolotors, ingrates and fornicators into a team every Sunday? Rumour has it the Argentinian Pontiff is looking at offers from the CoE and the Orthodox Church, and who can blame him?

Saints Fan4Life said:

I know it's Neil Ashton, but I've been thinking this about Koeman for a while, about the academy.

As much as I love Ron, it's my one criticism of him.

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I'm the opposite. Of those in and around the squad only Reed looks capable in comparison to who else we can bring in from outside. He looks like he could well turn out as a good DM.

Ward Prowse is way off being good enough and for all the talk of his amazing set pieces, when was the last time Saints scored from a set piece? He is nowhere near enough good enough to be a Prem DM and is not as good as Davis as a No10 which says it all. He is not good enough as a winger either.

Targett is closer to being good enough but even still doesn't look ready yet.

As for the Mail article you can't talk of Saints championing English players and the academy and being a success when all those players are being stripped from us each season. Should we be a success or a sides that sticks to that English/Academy mentality yet struggles to stay in the Prem?

I for one would prefer us to be able to bring through talent into the team but f they are not good enough for us to succeed then thats just how it goes. The players that are close to the first team at the moment are not at the level Shaw, Lallana and Co were. There will be more players that are though, just not now.

I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:

One thing about Pochettino was that he was always very good about getting young players into the side. I'm not just talking about Chambers or Shaw who arguably were natural talents. He would regularly substitute young players in at the end of games, even if the score were close.

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Disagree totally. Pochettino played the best 11 available every week. Shaw and Lallana were already first 11. Chambers was only played because Clyne was injured and then he played really well so kept his place until he had a bad game and was out again. Only injuries and suspensions gave anyone outside that first 11 a chance.

He did the same at Spurs last season. He continued with his first 11 and played his reserves / out of favour players in the Europa League. It was only after giving up on Soldado and Adebayor combined with Kane doing so well in Europe that he got a chance.

It's extremely difficult to find and bring through youngsters into a top 8 team - the quality of the player has to be exceptional. It's no surprise we have dried up; the likes of Bale and the ox hardly grow on trees and that is the type of quality needed for a top 8 team at 18yrs old. And when I say top 8 I mean a team trying to break into champions league at some point.

- Doing The Lambert Walk said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490


DTLW

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What makes me chuckle is the headline. Tensions continuing..? Last time I referred to an English language reference, tensions had to start first before they continued.
Then we have the evidence from Ron's newspaper old friend who says that Ron is happier here than even he thought he might be, and that he might stay for years. Now that was from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Not DM invention.

ImpSaint said:

I'm the opposite. Of those in and around the squad only Reed looks capable in comparison to who else we can bring in from outside. He looks like he could well turn out as a good DM..

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Agree with this entirely - and he barely gets a look-in in terms of playing time. Romeu, Wanyama, JWP, Davis and assume Clasie are all ahead of him, just as an out of position Toby was last season.

Saints Fan4Life said:

Agree with this entirely - and he barely gets a look-in in terms of playing time. Romeu, Wanyama, JWP, Davis and assume Clasie are all ahead of him, just as an out of position Toby was last season.

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Also agree. Can't help wondering what might have happened had he started against Everton instead of an out of position Steve Davis.
Last season against Everton I understood he was MOTM (I was away for that one)
Its a big ask for Davis to play that sitting role. It requires a level of under-activity and Davis' strength is hyper-activity.

ImpSaint said:

Disagree totally. Pochettino played the best 11 available every week. Shaw and Lallana were already first 11. Chambers was only played because Clyne was injured and then he played really well so kept his place until he had a bad game and was out again. Only injuries and suspensions gave anyone outside that first 11 a chance.

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What does Lallana have to do with anything?

When we beat Villa 6-1, Reed and Targett never made it off the bench.

I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:

What does Lallana have to do with anything?

When we beat Villa 6-1, Reed and Targett never made it off the bench.

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You cited that a strength of Pochettino gave our youngsters a chance when he didn't he only played them if his first 11 were not available. That first 11 included Lallana and Shaw so that cannot be put on Pochettino and Chambers, Reed, Gallagher only got on the pitch if Pochettino's first 11 were not available.

Ron has it harder because now the youngsters are not at a good enough level. Those that were (and were brought through by Pardew and Adkins) have gone. Those who remain are not ready yet. Ron's hands are tied and he has to pick the best 11. That means when Bertrand is fit, Targett is out. When Clasie, Wanyama, Romeu Davis are fit, then Ward Prowse and Reed are out.

How many of our academy players are young internationals? 4 or 5. How many are in the under 21 team isn't it 2? Surely if they are good enough to be in the under 21 national team they should be in strong contention for some role in our first team? JWP is closes I guess but what about Reed? Ron is under big pressure at the moment to start getting results. He has to put out what he considers to be his strongest 11 to try and get the results. So until he gets the consistency he wants he cannot afford to draft a youngster or two into the side for them to learn.
I personally do not think there is too much of a strain between RK and Reed as Reed will know what the situation is and why RK is doing what he is doing. (If that makes sense)