Idiot of the week.

alwaysright said:

Can somebody tell me exactly what 'safety' fears are involved ?? --- I'm too stupid to guess !

Unauthorised flags to be removed over safety fears

St George's flags and union jacks have been appearing across England since last summer.

www.bbc.co.uk

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Always I'd expect you to be intelligent enough to know there are several issues with having flags on street lamps. Firstly, they're usually not secured very well so there is a risk that they can fly off the streetlamp onto a moving car, which in a place like Shropshire there is a high probability for that. Secondly it can create additional issues for the streetlamp itself, again usually related to weather conditions and creating additional strain and potential damage to the streetlamp. Thirdly, many contracts for streetlighting may require no additional furniture to the lighting column and could null and void a pre-existing maintenance agreement for the streetlamp so when it comes to need some sort of maintenance, the contractor can refuse to do so.

Effectively those who have put the flags up haven't considered the wider impact on local authority owned infrastructure and the additional costs they may have to incur either repairing the lighting columns or removing the flags, which in turn inadvertently affects their council tax. Everyone has a right to fly a flag on their own property at any time they like, so it completely baffles me that people refuse to fly a flag where they live, but are quite happy to create additional issues for the local authority by tying them to public infrastructure.

Just put the washing out....

alwaysright said:

Pegleg -
I am intelligent enought that I cannot dispute your pedantic reasoning..... I am sure that there will always be a risk to anything that we do in life........but - I would have thought that you are intelligent enough to realise that the ban is a political issue - and the use of Health & Safety excuse is nothing but woke ( or anti woke depending on ones viewpoint...... I had better not type any more - in case I do myself an injury.

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Pedantic reasoning is one way of viewing it. Another is that I've spent the last 13+ years working in a Local Authority setting and have seen first hand the issues that the flags have created here in Kent. As I said previously, everyone is entitled to fly a flag on their own property, yet many have decided not to and instead fly them from public infrastructure without considering the consequences. I'm very familiar with Shropshire as my in-laws live there and there is a dual carriageway that runs from Shrewsbury towards Leominster, pretty much every lighting column along that dual carriageway has an English flag attached to it, some of them very poorly done which has seen multiple flags fly off as vehicles are driving passed. That alone is a simple enough reason to try and protect the motorists on a National Speed Limit road.

Call me woke all you like if that response displeases you that much, but I'd have thought someone who spent so much of their own career working in the public sector would be more sympathetic to the difficulties this creates for local authorities.

Award has to go to Southampton FC for this week being found guilty of spying on three separate occasions of opposition, which has seen their place in the Play-Off Final revoked and a four point deduction to be installed on them for next season. Middlesbrough get a reprieve to play in the final as a result, however Southampton are appealing the decision with a decision expected to be made today, but the fact they only admitted to spying in the first place after the intern sent to do it was caught on camera so the defence is undeniable. I can't however see the decision being overturned, Middlesbrough, will already be less prepared for the final this weekend as it is, so delay the decision any longer seems rather difficult for all teams involved.

If only Nigel Farage would receive a similar sort of punishment for his indiscretion of accepting £5m from Crypto bosses.

I'll repost what I wrote on the Southampton board:

Did many people know it was wrong, I certainly didn't, I didn't know there were specific rules about it. I remembered the fuss with Bielsa but I just thought it's a load of nonsense and he only got a fine he paid out of his own pocket.

So where did this extreme punishment come from, where are these outcomes printed within the rules - they are not and they are just making it up as they go along.

Seeing the guy with the camera by the tree is like something out of a Mr Bean sketch, it would be hilarious if the outcome had not been so severe.

Everyone does it but someone employed a clown who chose a tree for his hiding place.

I'm sorry but I'm old school, people really need to grow up, if you don't want to be filmed, train behind closed doors. Along with the Prem and VAR they are turning our game into an absolute farce.

About time fans fought back, I wouldn't want the bye if my team lost, I'd be telling the EFL to do one, about time fans started to fight back, power to the people brothers.

In regards to Farage he should be suspended from Parliament and no longer allowed to take a seat.

brb said:

I'll repost what I wrote on the Southampton board:

Did many people know it was wrong, I certainly didn't, I didn't know there were specific rules about it. I remembered the fuss with Bielsa but I just thought it's a load of nonsense and he only got a fine he paid out of his own pocket.

So where did this extreme punishment come from, where are these outcomes printed within the rules - they are not and they are just making it up as they go along.

Seeing the guy with the camera by the tree is like something out of a Mr Bean sketch, it would be hilarious if the outcome had not been so severe.

Everyone does it but someone employed a clown who chose a tree for his hiding place.

I'm sorry but I'm old school, people really need to grow up, if you don't want to be filmed, train behind closed doors. Along with the Prem and VAR they are turning our game into an absolute farce.

About time fans fought back, I wouldn't want the bye if my team lost, I'd be telling the EFL to do one, about time fans started to fight back, power to the people brothers.

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The rules were changed specifically as a consequence of what happened with Leeds in 2019. So whilst Leeds were fined, there was large outcries from other teams that felt cheated that Leeds had successfully got promoted and they were denied those abilities. Now the severity here is that Southampton have spied on three separate occasions, not just once as Leeds were found guilty for, and Southampton have actively spied on their opposition during the Play-Offs, which Leeds didn't do. So in theory, the rules applied would see larger punishment than what Leeds were subjected to, and spying on opposition for a Play-Off semi-final, in itself brings the competition into disrepute.

I think you'll struggle to find many Middlesbrough fans complaining they're going to the final.

The Gills PegLeg said:

The rules were changed specifically as a consequence of what happened with Leeds in 2019. So whilst Leeds were fined, there was large outcries from other teams that felt cheated that Leeds had successfully got promoted and they were denied those abilities. Now the severity here is that Southampton have spied on three separate occasions, not just once as Leeds were found guilty for, and Southampton have actively spied on their opposition during the Play-Offs, which Leeds didn't do. So in theory, the rules applied would see larger punishment than what Leeds were subjected to, and spying on opposition for a Play-Off semi-final, in itself brings the competition into disrepute.

I think you'll struggle to find many Middlesbrough fans complaining they're going to the final.

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For me, it's like giving the gold medal to the runner-up after the winner got expelled for doping.

If I don't cross the line first I don't want the reward. The moment has gone and nothing can recompense that and the regulations should be stringent enough to prevent it happening.

It's like all the ridiculous points deduction, other teams plan on what they know, not on what punishment a particular body may asign to a club at any given time.

Serie A was a good example of that once, when Juventus got a points deduction near the end of the same season, the problem was beforehand teams like Roma didn't know what they were playing for, they had a final coming up, but should they rest players for the next game OR play a full strength side because if Juventus get deducted it opens up the possibility of a CL place.

The points got added, on appeal they got removed, then they got added again, you couldn't make it up.

We all remember what point deductions did to clubs like Bury, really the punishments favour no one, they just destroy the moral fabric of the game, which is being destroyed by poor and random governance.

I think some made more of this spygate because it suited them to, no one is going to come out and reveal until the future that Jose was hiding in the laundry bin.

If we were really that concerned about cheating then West Ham should have had a penalty and denied Arsenal a goal, which in affect went on and allowed the Gunners to win the title before the final weekend.

Do I think Southampton cheated, well let's put it this way there are a lot worse things going on than a Mr Bean hiding behind a tree. As Gary Lineker once said football is "rife" with corruption. FIFA are the most corrupt of all (my words).

If you don't want to be spied on train in a locked stadium.

I suppose the one good thing to come out of this is that the punishment is clear now (stringent).

Edit: what I do feel is acceptable is as a sports lawyer has said, replay the match, I'd rather have chance of beating the team honourably on the pitch than by being given a bye.

I should add teams like Barcelona train in a crowd attended stadium...video is for example purposes only, not expecting anyone to watch one and a half hours of it.

I very much understand the position you're coming from @brb but I would ask, what justification is there in doing it in the first place? Sure in Spain they may fill their stadiums when their teams go out and train, but we simply don't just do that here. We're English, we don't require the pomp and festivities around showing off our teams training. We set higher standards that teams do their work behind close doors and save their performances for match day.

The whole thing to me looks like one team trying to get an unfair advantage on their opponents and simply just baffles me as to why they would think its ok. In this day and age, every match in the EFL is videoed in some format, that means Southampton could have accessed hours upon hours of video footage of how Middlesbrough, Oxford and Ipswich played in matches, without needing to send someone down to their training ground, to incompetently try and hide behind a tree whilst filming them train. If their analysts had any competence, they could create extensive video packages that Southampton's management could use to understand how those teams play. It really wasn't necessary to send an intern off to Oxfordshire or Suffolk or North Yorkshire to then get video footage of those teams preparing for matches.

I think the message that the EFL has sent with their punishment is clear. Hold yourself to the standards we expect in this country, and win the opportunity for promotion with results, not through cheating.

The Gills PegLeg said:

I very much understand the position you're coming from @brb but I would ask, what justification is there in doing it in the first place? Sure in Spain they may fill their stadiums when their teams go out and train, but we simply don't just do that here. We're English, we don't require the pomp and festivities around showing off our teams training. We set higher standards that teams do their work behind close doors and save their performances for match day.

The whole thing to me looks like one team trying to get an unfair advantage on their opponents and simply just baffles me as to why they would think its ok. In this day and age, every match in the EFL is videoed in some format, that means Southampton could have accessed hours upon hours of video footage of how Middlesbrough, Oxford and Ipswich played in matches, without needing to send someone down to their training ground, to incompetently try and hide behind a tree whilst filming them train. If their analysts had any competence, they could create extensive video packages that Southampton's management could use to understand how those teams play. It really wasn't necessary to send an intern off to Oxfordshire or Suffolk or North Yorkshire to then get video footage of those teams preparing for matches.

I think the message that the EFL has sent with their punishment is clear. Hold yourself to the standards we expect in this country, and win the opportunity for promotion with results, not through cheating.

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I agree with everything you say, but it just seems like something out of a Mr Bean or Monty Python sketch, more comical than any advantage gained. No more advantage than watching endless Youtube videos on the club, no more advantage than watching Middlesborough on SKY Sports as one of the most featured Championship team due to their league position most weeks.

So what did they gain from it, nothing other than blowing it all out of proportion, as Leeds, Crystal Palace and probably many other clubs have done - even Sir Alex Ferguson was concerned with the amount of spying going on, and more recently the concern of drones spying.

Yes we can call it cheating, but the likes of the Premier League cheat every week, loads of players cheat and nothing is ever done about it. Even FIFA the most corrupt organisation in football gives an America dictator some peace prize they constructed for benefit of gain.

Southampton are not the problem here, they are merely the fools, the real problem occurs across England every single week, whether it's a crocodile roll, a tug on shirt, a ref that takes cocaine and loves getting one over Klopp, the VAR advantage always favouring the team in red, let's not forget all the bungs, or the ref that decades ago denied Forest another European trophy through corruption.

We even employed ourselves a manager with a record of the financial dark arts at previous clubs.

So what's really going on here...playing advantage, blow it up and do lots of crying as I like to call it, yeah Southampton will take their punishment, they will probably even pick up more as further investigations unfold, certainly no one will ever do it again, because unluckily for Southampton the punishment was unknown, the punishment was just made up by a bunch of people who must wash in Persil.

Like I say, I agree with all you say and at least now there is the consequences written in black and white for anyone else that chooses this path. The punishment was extreme, the punishment was unfair, all for acting like a bunch of clowns when there were easier methods to achieve their goal - yes, they only have themselves to blame.

The fairest way, might have been to make both side replay their game, I genuinely don't believe any advantage was gained, but at least everyone made Southampton the bad guys, let's remember that when decisions are made this weekend on the final day (Sunday), you can be sure there will be the usual talking points.

Anyway nice to have the discussion.

You know what would make my day in all this, is for Boro to win by the dodgiest goal ever, Maradonna style, for the ref to point to the centre circle as goal stands and for Boro to go up to the Premier League through cheating, now that really would be the cherry on the cake for me and be ideal for my sense of humour.

Justice served cold is greatest outcome of this saga, congratulations John Egan...

This is what football should be about...