Off Topic The politics thread - Starmer/Reeves/Farage etc.

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Pure River Slut said:
So a Jewish man is the threat and the one who hisses at Jews isn't ?
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I don’t know if you know many/any Jews, live in an area with many etc. but I assure you while we’re well aware of antisemitism on the right it’s not the threat right now.

I wouldn’t call Muslim antisemitism left wing as there isn’t much left wing about it but it is the threat and it’s getting worse. There’s always been an antisemitism issue within the left but rarely if ever, in this country, a violent one. These two groups are now united while the former finds the latter useful. Polanski is key to that. Self-hating Jews have been a thing forever. Polanski isn’t deep down a self-hater as his record prior to this position shows but he’s willing to use his Jewishness to provide cover for the groups he needs votes from to achieve some level of power and further his career, to the detriment of the vast majority of British Jews.
 
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Star of David Bardsley said:
I don’t know if you know many/any Jews, live in an area with many etc. but I assure you while we’re well aware of antisemitism on the right it’s not the threat right now.

I wouldn’t call Muslim antisemitism left wing as there isn’t much left wing about it but it is the threat and it’s getting worse. There’s always been an antisemitism issue within the left but rarely if ever, in this country, a violent one. These two groups are now united while the former finds the latter useful. Polanski is key to that. Self-hating Jews have been a thing forever. Polanski isn’t deep down a self-hater as his record prior to this position shows but he’s willing to use his Jewishness to provide cover for the groups he needs votes from to achieve some level of power and further his career, to the detriment of the vast majority of British Jews.
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I do know a few Jewish people from Manchester. The lad i connect to is hugely frustrated about the war hunger of Israel as he knows there are people who are either dumb or bigoted and can’t work out the difference between the behaviour of the elected Israeli government and Israeli state and its right to exist and think revenge on any jew is justifiable. Defence and genocidal slaughter are very dufferent things. So trying to stop the supply of arms to limit Netanyahu’s aggression, challenging the slaughter of people by the IDF - if it made any difference - is wise and helpful.
Ive also been connected to this work https://www.sns.space/
I’m not going to argue there aren't some people supporting the Greens who cross the line and maybe some in the party but the shared leadership across this perspective is welcome. Im not keen on some of their responses - for example diplomacy / negotiation is always right and i saw them haranguing Lammy for meeting republican leaders which is ridiculous. Some of their narrative about staying calm and engaging all faiths to stop hate on all sides is strong and they model that.
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I think this nails it. Many people seeing the injustice in Gaza also challenge all hate including holocaust deniers which are mostly far right. Also i know the extreme islamist whatsapp groups roll out this nonsense.

If you don't see normalising of racism, pointing the finger at the foreigner, as a risk to those in your community visibly Jewish, i think you're plain wrong. I want it all to stop and I'm sorry that your community and others don't feel safe. It’s a sad state. I love that Britain is multicultural.

Coming back to you, do you engage with muslims in a way that balances your perspective? Or do you just have a singular view?
Also curious whether you support Sunderland and why you appear here from time to time but nowhere else. Do you know another poster?
 
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This is just pathetic. An immigrant from Somalia who has lived here for 40 years has deliberately gone and stabbed 2 British Jews. We do not know the political persuasions of all 3 of the people involved, or indeed if they have any political persuasions at all. This is about a Muslim hating Jews. It is about religion and politics plays no part at all. Politicising a random act of violence by a lunatic is sick.
 
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DH4 said:
This is just pathetic. An immigrant from Somalia who has lived here for 40 years has deliberately gone and stabbed 2 British Jews. We do not know the political persusions of all 3 of the people involved, or indeed if they have any political persuasions at all. This is about a Muslim hating Jews. It is about religion and politics plays no part at all. Politicising a random act of violence by a lunatic is sick.
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The bloke is also significantly mentally ill and has attacked random people before. I’d say if politicised it’s about mental health services.
 
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Pure River Slut said:
I do know a few Jewish people from Manchester. The lad i connect to is hugely frustrated about the war hunger of Israel as he knows there are people who are either dumb or bigoted and can’t work out the difference between the behaviour of the elected Israeli government and Israeli state and its right to exist and think revenge on any jew is justifiable. Defence and genocidal slaughter are very dufferent things. So trying to stop the supply of arms to limit Netanyahu’s aggression, challenging the slaughter of people by the IDF - if it made any difference - is wise and helpful.
Ive also been connected to this work https://www.sns.space/
I’m not going to argue there aren't some people supporting the Greens who cross the line and maybe some in the party but the shared leadership across this perspective is welcome. Im not keen on some of their responses - for example diplomacy / negotiation is always right and i saw them haranguing Lammy for meeting republican leaders which is ridiculous. Some of their narrative about staying calm and engaging all faiths to stop hate on all sides is strong and they model that.
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I think this nails it. Many people seeing the injustice in Gaza also challenge all hate including holocaust deniers which are mostly far right. Also i know the extreme islamist whatsapp groups roll out this nonsense.

If you don't see normalising of racism, pointing the finger at the foreigner, as a risk to those in your community visibly Jewish, i think you're plain wrong. I want it all to stop and I'm sorry that your community and others don't feel safe. It’s a sad state. I love that Britain us multicultural.

Coming back to you, do you engage with muslims in a way that balances your perspective? Or do you just have a singular view?
Also curious whether you support Sunderland and why you appear here from time to time but nowhere else. Do you know another poster?
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Saf and I go way back. We were in a credit card fraud gang in the 90s. With the new site layout I was scrolling down and this was the latest thread posted on so I had a look. Some of the politics threads on this site are beyond mental (not this one but check out Southampton’s).

I’d politely suggest your mate’s views are quite fringe amongst British Jews. Despite all the hyperbole and ludicrous headlines and social media bods trying to out-outrage each other, Israel had war waged upon it on multiple fronts in a co-ordinated set of attacks. They could have just blitzed Gaza indiscriminately and killed a huge chunk of the population but over the course of a war of two years it was something like 3% including combatants. The genocide narrative doesn’t add up from a maths viewpoint nor one of intent. If they had the intent they had the ability to do whatever they wanted.

Yet they told Gazans in advance where to evacuate from and conducted missions that put themselves at greater risk to help minimise unnecessary casualties. Something that would never happen with the roles reversed and Israel’s enemies have truly fired indiscriminately. The damage to Israel’s north is grossly underreported in Western media.

It’s a tiny country making the sort of impossible choices no other country has to and this has been the case for 78 years. I don’t doubt certain missions weren’t carried out perfectly or that there are certain bad people within the IDF as with any army or just any group of people. But in the context of what they’re up against and the conditions Hamas chooses to fight with its own people in the middle, what choice did they seriously have? They tried forcibly removing Jewish communities in Gaza for peace. They’ve ceded more land than makes up modern day Israel for peace and it’s got them nowhere. They (and the US) offered Arafat the most incredible deal for a state in the hope of peace but Palestinian leaders simply don’t want peace and never will. So it’s essentially kill or be killed even with the odd pause. They’ll come again but all you can do is set yourself up to minimise what that looks like.

I do have a good Iranian Muslim friend. Not best mate but maybe top 10 pre-war. We haven’t fallen out over it and we don’t speak as much now for general life reasons rather than this but I know mutual friends have with him. A big chunk of diaspora Jews like me who didn’t really think about Israel a lot have become far more defensive over it because who else will? The tide is turning here and I don’t think it’ll quite get to the point I can’t be here but every Jewish family has had that conversation. We simply don’t have the numbers here to counter the violence we face even if we wanted to and that’s a concern. The crusty leftie antisemitic types are a joke but Muslim antisemitism is the real issue for us because it’s that that causes the likes of the Manchester attack. The government for all their words really can’t do anything about it other than stop most of the attacks, which they do thankfully, but it’ll only get worse and some will slip through the net. A cancer has been unleashed and there’s nothing ordinary people can do. Even if we did all publicly condemn Israel out of fear it would make no difference because the people doing this honestly just hate Jews and the West and always have. It’s just far more acceptable now to more people.

Sorry bit of an essay.
 
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There's a basic precept that's being missed here in my opinion.

When I lived in the south of France there were a large number of people who insisted on speaking their own language, mixed together and had their own shops, schools, churches, hospitals, newspapers, radio stations, etc. They tended to import their own foodstuffs, socialise together, had particular bars they'd frequent and have their own way of dressing, etc ...

... they were known as 'Brits' and were often expats, who'd come to live in the sunshine or the more affluent with second homes they'd buy to the detriment of the French, many properties would stand empty for most of the year. Otherwise they'd be working people on the yachts, often 'on the black', etc, often taking jobs from the locals, as the Brits preferred to have other Brits working for them, all kinds of tax avoidance was rife so also robbed the local economy.

When I see reports from places like Golders Green, and other Jewish enclaves, that's exactly what it reminds me of.

I've no real experience of these places but I'd imagine there are almost identical Muslim communities ...

... I have worked for Jews and Muslims however.

I mix with anyone and everyone so don't have to bother with all this nonsense, it seems quite divisive and daft to me.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
There's a basic precept that's being missed here in my opinion.

When I lived in the south of France there were a large number of people who insisted on speaking their own language, mixed together and had their own shops, schools, churches, hospitals, newspapers, radio stations, etc. They tended to import their own foodstuffs, socialise together, had particular bars they'd frequent and have their own way of dressing, etc ...

... they were known as 'Brits' and were often expats, who'd come to live in the sunshine or the more affluent with second homes they'd buy to the detriment of the French, many properties would stand empty for most of the year. Otherwise they'd be working people on the yachts, often 'on the black',etc, often taking jobs from the locals, as the Brits preferred to have other Brits working for them.

When I see reports from places like Golders Green, and other Jewish enclaves, that's exactly it reminds me of.

I've no experience of these places but I'd imagine there are almost identical Muslim communities.

I mix with anyone and everyone so don't have to bother with all this nonsense, it seems quite divisive and daft to me.
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Golders Green isn’t a big place and is about 45% Jewish I believe. Big Korean community or there was when I was growing up not far away. One constituency in the whole country is >20% compared to dozens being >20% Muslim and a few >50%. We don’t really have the numbers for enclaves or at least big enclaves.

There’s a few super Orthodox communities in random places (Gateshead, Canvey Island) but most Jews in the UK even if living in places with a relatively large Jewish population (NW London/Herts, certain parts of Manchester/Leeds/Essex) you wouldn’t know it if passing through most of them.
 
Star of David Bardsley said:
Golders Green isn’t a big place and is about 45% Jewish I believe. Big Korean community or there was when I was growing up not far away. One constituency in the whole country is >20% compared to dozens being >20% Muslim and a few >50%. We don’t really have the numbers for enclaves or at least big enclaves.

There’s a few super Orthodox communities in random places (Gateshead, Canvey Island) but most Jews in the UK even if living in places with a relatively large Jewish population (NW London/Herts, certain parts of Manchester/Leeds/Essex) you wouldn’t know it if passing through most of them.
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My point is that Jews tend to 'group together' just as Muslims do.

When you're going through those areas you're usually aware even without the large religious buildings.

As I said, 'ghettos' exist in all kinds of ways whether it's sunny Antibes or gloomy Ancoats.
 
Star of David Bardsley said:
Saf and I go way back. We were in a credit card fraud gang in the 90s. With the new site layout I was scrolling down and this was the latest thread posted on so I had a look. Some of the politics threads on this site are beyond mental (not this one but check out Southampton’s).

I’d politely suggest your mate’s views are quite fringe amongst British Jews. Despite all the hyperbole and ludicrous headlines and social media bods trying to out-outrage each other, Israel had war waged upon it on multiple fronts in a co-ordinated set of attacks. They could have just blitzed Gaza indiscriminately and killed a huge chunk of the population but over the course of a war of two years it was something like 3% including combatants. The genocide narrative doesn’t add up from a maths viewpoint nor one of intent. If they had the intent they had the ability to do whatever they wanted.

Yet they told Gazans in advance where to evacuate from and conducted missions that put themselves at greater risk to help minimise unnecessary casualties. Something that would never happen with the roles reversed and Israel’s enemies have truly fired indiscriminately. The damage to Israel’s north is grossly underreported in Western media.

It’s a tiny country making the sort of impossible choices no other country has to and this has been the case for 78 years. I don’t doubt certain missions weren’t carried out perfectly or that there are certain bad people within the IDF as with any army or just any group of people. But in the context of what they’re up against and the conditions Hamas chooses to fight with its own people in the middle, what choice did they seriously have? They tried forcibly removing Jewish communities in Gaza for peace. They’ve ceded more land than makes up modern day Israel for peace and it’s got them nowhere. They (and the US) offered Arafat the most incredible deal for a state in the hope of peace but Palestinian leaders simply don’t want peace and never will. So it’s essentially kill or be killed even with the odd pause. They’ll come again but all you can do is set yourself up to minimise what that looks like.

I do have a good Iranian Muslim friend. Not best mate but maybe top 10 pre-war. We haven’t fallen out over it and we don’t speak as much now for general life reasons rather than this but I know mutual friends have with him. A big chunk of diaspora Jews like me who didn’t really think about Israel a lot have become far more defensive over it because who else will? The tide is turning here and I don’t think it’ll quite get to the point I can’t be here but every Jewish family has had that conversation. We simply don’t have the numbers here to counter the violence we face even if we wanted to and that’s a concern. The crusty leftie antisemitic types are a joke but Muslim antisemitism is the real issue for us because it’s that that causes the likes of the Manchester attack. The government for all their words really can’t do anything about it other than stop most of the attacks, which they do thankfully, but it’ll only get worse and some will slip through the net. A cancer has been unleashed and there’s nothing ordinary people can do. Even if we did all publicly condemn Israel out of fear it would make no difference because the people doing this honestly just hate Jews and the West and always have. It’s just far more acceptable now to more people.

Sorry bit of an essay.
Click to expand...
Star of David Bardsley said:
Saf and I go way back. We were in a credit card fraud gang in the 90s. With the new site layout I was scrolling down and this was the latest thread posted on so I had a look. Some of the politics threads on this site are beyond mental (not this one but check out Southampton’s).

I’d politely suggest your mate’s views are quite fringe amongst British Jews. Despite all the hyperbole and ludicrous headlines and social media bods trying to out-outrage each other, Israel had war waged upon it on multiple fronts in a co-ordinated set of attacks. They could have just blitzed Gaza indiscriminately and killed a huge chunk of the population but over the course of a war of two years it was something like 3% including combatants. The genocide narrative doesn’t add up from a maths viewpoint nor one of intent. If they had the intent they had the ability to do whatever they wanted.

Yet they told Gazans in advance where to evacuate from and conducted missions that put themselves at greater risk to help minimise unnecessary casualties. Something that would never happen with the roles reversed and Israel’s enemies have truly fired indiscriminately. The damage to Israel’s north is grossly underreported in Western media.

It’s a tiny country making the sort of impossible choices no other country has to and this has been the case for 78 years. I don’t doubt certain missions weren’t carried out perfectly or that there are certain bad people within the IDF as with any army or just any group of people. But in the context of what they’re up against and the conditions Hamas chooses to fight with its own people in the middle, what choice did they seriously have? They tried forcibly removing Jewish communities in Gaza for peace. They’ve ceded more land than makes up modern day Israel for peace and it’s got them nowhere. They (and the US) offered Arafat the most incredible deal for a state in the hope of peace but Palestinian leaders simply don’t want peace and never will. So it’s essentially kill or be killed even with the odd pause. They’ll come again but all you can do is set yourself up to minimise what that looks like.

I do have a good Iranian Muslim friend. Not best mate but maybe top 10 pre-war. We haven’t fallen out over it and we don’t speak as much now for general life reasons rather than this but I know mutual friends have with him. A big chunk of diaspora Jews like me who didn’t really think about Israel a lot have become far more defensive over it because who else will? The tide is turning here and I don’t think it’ll quite get to the point I can’t be here but every Jewish family has had that conversation. We simply don’t have the numbers here to counter the violence we face even if we wanted to and that’s a concern. The crusty leftie antisemitic types are a joke but Muslim antisemitism is the real issue for us because it’s that that causes the likes of the Manchester attack. The government for all their words really can’t do anything about it other than stop most of the attacks, which they do thankfully, but it’ll only get worse and some will slip through the net. A cancer has been unleashed and there’s nothing ordinary people can do. Even if we did all publicly condemn Israel out of fear it would make no difference because the people doing this honestly just hate Jews and the West and always have. It’s just far more acceptable now to more people.

Sorry bit of an essay.
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I only needed the first line which of course i knew. That wont help your cause. Stay safe mate, choosing better friends will help.
Fringe isn't always wrong.
 
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Pure River Slut said:
I only needed the first line which of course i knew. That wont help your cause. Stay safe mate, choosing better friends will help.
Fringe isn't always wrong.
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Because a few on here have been messaged and told not to like me and be wary of me?

I have never known someone to have such a complex about oneself as you do. Can you not tell by the comments on here that many posters think you are an utter dickhead?

I pity you… honestly.
 
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Pure River Slut said:
Says the man who drags a jewish man from another club onto our page to fire his bullets at a time of high tension and calls himself his friend.
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I’ve no doubt you annoy other posters at times, on here, me included.

But I don’t rope in other people to argue on my behalf and I try to avoid speaking on behalf of other people …

… if you can’t maintain a discussion without targeting a particular poster your argument can’t be too sound in my opinion.
 
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Wow!

I didn’t drag anybody here. Just like the other day when I was accused of messaging people to gang up on you. That never happened either.

I’m convinced you have psychological issues. Paranoid lunatic <laugh>

Seek help… You are not of a sound mind.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
I’ve no doubt you annoy other posters at times, on here, me included.

But I don’t rope in other people to argue on my behalf and I try to avoid speaking on behalf of other people …

… if you can’t maintain a discussion without targeting a particular poster your argument can’t be too sound in my opinion.
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Don’t get me wrong, i know i’m a dickhead.
 
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