The fight for Europe ...

RLB's Beautiful Face · Apr 18, 2026

Brainy Dose said:
Interesting post mate,I would agree with most of it. When you say handle European football, there must be some success in there. What changes to the squad do you think will be necessary to achieve that and how do you think the pathway from the Academy to the first team squad would be affected?

I don't think any success is required for the first few years, qualifying for Europe in itself is a huge success for a club in our situation. It will allow us to attract more, better quality players. Even if we go out in the 1st round, it will still have a huge positive impact on the future of the club and calibre of players we can attract - especially if we manage to get Champions League (which I'm not ruling out, we're potentially just 2 points off it with 6 games left to play). The prestige from that is huge.

Plus, I'd absolutely love LON to get to play in Europe with SAFC. Even if he only gets 2 minutes at the end of a game, what a story that would be!!

Brainy Dose · Apr 18, 2026

David Moyes' Stupid Face said:
I don't think any success is required for the first few years, qualifying for Europe in itself is a huge success for a club in our situation. It will allow us to attract more, better quality players. Even if we go out in the 1st round, it will still have a huge positive impact on the future of the club and calibre of players we can attract - especially if we manage to get Champions League (which I'm not ruling out, we're potentially just 2 points off it with 6 games left to play). The prestige from that is huge.

Plus, I'd absolutely love LON to get to play in Europe with SAFC. Even if he only gets 2 minutes at the end of a game, what a story that would be!!

Good post mate. Agree with LoN....love the lad....as you say, what a story! I just worry how the improvement to the squad necessary to compete would interfere with the pathway from the Academy. If we look at Riggy, such a talented lad, but it's taken him almost 9 months to get to grips with this league.
We may end up signing players who aren't as committed to us as we would like them to be.

C Montgomery Burns · Apr 18, 2026

I think we as fans have been aching for the mythical "next step" for years, decades in fact, even if we couldn't really define what exactly it was meant to be. To me it's always been to be solid in the top 10 and to challenge for Europe.

Different things were supposed to herald it, building the SOL, building the academy, extending the SOL, cup runs, 7th place finishes under Reid, investment from Drumaville and Short. We can go back to the 80s with Durban's team and the play promotion in 1990. Each time it looked like we were on the cusp of doing something it went wrong. Not investing in the team under Durban or in 91 under Smith. How different would things have been if we'd survived in 91 and been able to stay there to be in at the start of the Premier League? What if Cowie had allowed Durban the funds to buy Aldridge, Mark Chamberlain and Dave Bennett? The Ian Atkins quote "if you think champagne you'll drink champagne, at Sunderland they think water" summed up the reason it failed for too many years. It seemed as though there was a fear to take a chance in case it went wrong and that caution held us back until something did go wrong and compounded it.

Under Reid there didn't seem to be any long term planning which is why when the team aged and began to break up things took a disasterous turn. I do blame Bob Murray for that. I think his innate caution didn't let him risk looking further down the line and planning for the longer term, and investing then when the going was good, not just in the team but in things like the hospitality and corporate sections, revenue and attracting investment. Don't get me wrong, Murray did a lot of good for us, but I think he ended up being a man out of time. A good chairman for the 1980s and 90s but being left behind by the 2000s.

Short spent money, but was badly advised by the wrong people so it ended up badly. Like a bad gambler chasing his bets until it wasn't sustainable. If only he'd had the right people there, things could have easily been different.

But now it does feel different, there feels like there's a plan, with mostly (the ticket office apart) the right people in place. There's ambition on and off the field to reach that mythical next step. KLD had a 5 year plan to get us to the EPL, we did it a year early. I'm convinced that he had a similar plan for what would happen once we reached the EPL and how to adapt to different scenarios. Maybe the plan was to qualify for Europe in another couple of years, but I'm sure if we qualify this season there'll be a plan to adapt to that. If we qualify for Europe it could be the best chance we have for a while to move onto the next step, we just have to trust the club. If we don't, we've lost nothing and still had a great season. So, let's go for it and see what happens.

Robertson · Apr 18, 2026

C Montgomery Burns said:
I think we as fans have been aching for the mythical "next step" for years, decades in fact, even if we couldn't really define what exactly it was meant to be. To me it's always been to be solid in the top 10 and to challenge for Europe.

Different things were supposed to herald it, building the SOL, building the academy, extending the SOL, cup runs, 7th place finishes under Reid, investment from Drumaville and Short. We can go back to the 80s with Durban's team and the play promotion in 1990. Each time it looked like we were on the cusp of doing something it went wrong. Not investing in the team under Durban or in 91 under Smith. How different would things have been if we'd survived in 91 and been able to stay there to be in at the start of the Premier League? What if Cowie had allowed Durban the funds to buy Aldridge, Mark Chamberlain and Dave Bennett? The Ian Atkins quote "if you think champagne you'll drink champagne, at Sunderland they think water" summed up the reason it failed for too many years. It seemed as though there was a fear to take a chance in case it went wrong and that caution held us back until something did go wrong and compounded it.

Under Reid there didn't seem to be any long term planning which is why when the team aged and began to break up things took a disasterous turn. I do blame Bob Murray for that. I think his innate caution didn't let him risk looking further down the line and planning for the longer term, and investing then when the going was good, not just in the team but in things like the hospitality and corporate sections, revenue and attracting investment. Don't get me wrong, Murray did a lot of good for us, but I think he ended up being a man out of time. A good chairman for the 1980s and 90s but being left behind by the 2000s.

Short spent money, but was badly advised by the wrong people so it ended up badly. Like a bad gambler chasing his bets until it wasn't sustainable. If only he'd had the right people there, things could have easily been different.

But now it does feel different, there feels like there's a plan, with mostly (the ticket office apart) the right people in place. There's ambition on and off the field to reach that mythical next step. KLD had a 5 year plan to get us to the EPL, we did it a year early. I'm convinced that he had a similar plan for what would happen once we reached the EPL and how to adapt to different scenarios. Maybe the plan was to qualify for Europe in another couple of years, but I'm sure if we qualify this season there'll be a plan to adapt to that. If we qualify for Europe it could be the best chance we have for a while to move onto the next step, we just have to trust the club. If we don't, we've lost nothing and still had a great season. So, let's go for it and see what happens.

Great post mate.

We didn’t manage to make the stars align during previous opportunities. It feels like KLD and his team have examined those past mistakes and learned a lot from them.

Bank of England 2 · Apr 18, 2026

Brainy Dose said:
Good post mate. Agree with LoN....love the lad....as you say, what a story! I just worry how the improvement to the squad necessary to compete would interfere with the pathway from the Academy. If we look at Riggy, such a talented lad, but it's taken him almost 9 months to get to grips with this league.
We may end up signing players who aren't as committed to us as we would like them to be.

I think we would probably bring in a further 4 or 5 players on top of what we would otherwise do (so about 9 or 10). This would allow us to rotate much more than we have this season, because we will have that strength in depth. As a result, Riggy and a few others would probably end up playing more than they have this season, particularly if we have a good run in Europe

Slim Jim B · Apr 18, 2026

C Montgomery Burns said:
I think we as fans have been aching for the mythical "next step" for years, decades in fact, even if we couldn't really define what exactly it was meant to be. To me it's always been to be solid in the top 10 and to challenge for Europe.

Different things were supposed to herald it, building the SOL, building the academy, extending the SOL, cup runs, 7th place finishes under Reid, investment from Drumaville and Short. We can go back to the 80s with Durban's team and the play promotion in 1990. Each time it looked like we were on the cusp of doing something it went wrong. Not investing in the team under Durban or in 91 under Smith. How different would things have been if we'd survived in 91 and been able to stay there to be in at the start of the Premier League? What if Cowie had allowed Durban the funds to buy Aldridge, Mark Chamberlain and Dave Bennett? The Ian Atkins quote "if you think champagne you'll drink champagne, at Sunderland they think water" summed up the reason it failed for too many years. It seemed as though there was a fear to take a chance in case it went wrong and that caution held us back until something did go wrong and compounded it.

Under Reid there didn't seem to be any long term planning which is why when the team aged and began to break up things took a disasterous turn. I do blame Bob Murray for that. I think his innate caution didn't let him risk looking further down the line and planning for the longer term, and investing then when the going was good, not just in the team but in things like the hospitality and corporate sections, revenue and attracting investment. Don't get me wrong, Murray did a lot of good for us, but I think he ended up being a man out of time. A good chairman for the 1980s and 90s but being left behind by the 2000s.

Short spent money, but was badly advised by the wrong people so it ended up badly. Like a bad gambler chasing his bets until it wasn't sustainable. If only he'd had the right people there, things could have easily been different.

But now it does feel different, there feels like there's a plan, with mostly (the ticket office apart) the right people in place. There's ambition on and off the field to reach that mythical next step. KLD had a 5 year plan to get us to the EPL, we did it a year early. I'm convinced that he had a similar plan for what would happen once we reached the EPL and how to adapt to different scenarios. Maybe the plan was to qualify for Europe in another couple of years, but I'm sure if we qualify this season there'll be a plan to adapt to that. If we qualify for Europe it could be the best chance we have for a while to move onto the next step, we just have to trust the club. If we don't, we've lost nothing and still had a great season. So, let's go for it and see what happens.

Totally agree with that. We have been a ‘sleeping giant’ for so long that everybody has forgot about our record and history, even the Sunderland fans. Our fans have been starved of success for too long, with only minor glimpses, as you have alluded too.

Let us take our chances while we can and if Europe happens, then that will be a great feeling for all of us. Who knows we may do well in Europe and survive comfortably in next seasons Premiership. It would also massive to achieve a European spot whilst the ‘visitors’ flounder, taking our rightful place as NE top dogs!

Northside born · Apr 18, 2026

Well if spurs get beat we are safe. Therefore let's push on

Jme2 · Apr 18, 2026

C Montgomery Burns said:
I think we as fans have been aching for the mythical "next step" for years, decades in fact, even if we couldn't really define what exactly it was meant to be. To me it's always been to be solid in the top 10 and to challenge for Europe.

Different things were supposed to herald it, building the SOL, building the academy, extending the SOL, cup runs, 7th place finishes under Reid, investment from Drumaville and Short. We can go back to the 80s with Durban's team and the play promotion in 1990. Each time it looked like we were on the cusp of doing something it went wrong. Not investing in the team under Durban or in 91 under Smith. How different would things have been if we'd survived in 91 and been able to stay there to be in at the start of the Premier League? What if Cowie had allowed Durban the funds to buy Aldridge, Mark Chamberlain and Dave Bennett? The Ian Atkins quote "if you think champagne you'll drink champagne, at Sunderland they think water" summed up the reason it failed for too many years. It seemed as though there was a fear to take a chance in case it went wrong and that caution held us back until something did go wrong and compounded it.

Under Reid there didn't seem to be any long term planning which is why when the team aged and began to break up things took a disasterous turn. I do blame Bob Murray for that. I think his innate caution didn't let him risk looking further down the line and planning for the longer term, and investing then when the going was good, not just in the team but in things like the hospitality and corporate sections, revenue and attracting investment. Don't get me wrong, Murray did a lot of good for us, but I think he ended up being a man out of time. A good chairman for the 1980s and 90s but being left behind by the 2000s.

Short spent money, but was badly advised by the wrong people so it ended up badly. Like a bad gambler chasing his bets until it wasn't sustainable. If only he'd had the right people there, things could have easily been different.

But now it does feel different, there feels like there's a plan, with mostly (the ticket office apart) the right people in place. There's ambition on and off the field to reach that mythical next step. KLD had a 5 year plan to get us to the EPL, we did it a year early. I'm convinced that he had a similar plan for what would happen once we reached the EPL and how to adapt to different scenarios. Maybe the plan was to qualify for Europe in another couple of years, but I'm sure if we qualify this season there'll be a plan to adapt to that. If we qualify for Europe it could be the best chance we have for a while to move onto the next step, we just have to trust the club. If we don't, we've lost nothing and still had a great season. So, let's go for it and see what happens.

Great post ..Depressing to think we lived through all of that, but fantastic to be here for what seems to be a break through season..never have we been in a position like this and top clubs wanting our players . We are normally punching to get to this point ... bloody marvellous ..

Sunders53 · Apr 19, 2026

Interesting to listen to the Vile's manager's press conference before they play us, saying how hard it is to fight for success in both Premier League and Europe. He mention the Spuds and Skunks failures this year.

Slim Jim B · Apr 19, 2026

Very disappointed after today’s game, thought we had saved at least a point.

Just had a look at all of the remaining fixtures and European qualification is going to be tough. I expect Brighton and Everton to take 6th and 7th leaving 8th to play for. I reckon that you will need another 9 points to get there as we cannot rely on goal difference. Forest and Wolves are must win games and Everton and Chelsea must not lose games.

Who knows what other results will be but it will go to the last game of the season. Us or Chelsea for Europe. Time for our experienced European players to step up and manage the younger players.

Smug in Boots · Apr 19, 2026

Slim Jim B said:
Very disappointed after today’s game, thought we had saved at least a point.

Just had a look at all of the remaining fixtures and European qualification is going to be tough. I expect Brighton and Everton to take 6th and 7th leaving 8th to play for. I reckon that you will need another 9 points to get there as we cannot rely on goal difference. Forest and Wolves are must win games and Everton and Chelsea must not lose games.

Who knows what other results will be but it will go to the last game of the season. Us or Chelsea for Europe. Time for our experienced European players to step up and manage the younger players.

I've no doubt what you're saying makes perfect sense mate.

My take on all this is that I'm already happy with our season and anything else is a huge bonus ...

... it's not like we're Chelsea, targeting the Champions League and missing out.

We're fresh from the play-offs and playing the likes of Rigg, Ballard, Enzo, O'Nien, Isidor, etc, all of whom played against teams like Oxford and Portsmouth. The only way they'll learn, as RLB keeps stressing, is by getting things, wrong, putting them right, and repeating that process.

Over the next month all kinds of things will happen. The title will be decided, one of the big London clubs will be relegated and some teams will qualify for Europe. If we're one of them I'd smile but, if not, I'll still smile and think about beating Chelsea away, thrashing West Ham at home and doing the double over Newcastle United.

I'll be at the Chelsea game, when hopefully we'll do the double over them, reach Europe and finish above the Mags ...

... tbh, I'd settle for any one of those three things

Slim Jim B · Apr 19, 2026

Smug in Boots said:
I've no doubt what you're saying makes perfect sense mate.

My take on all this is that I'm already happy with our season and anything else is a huge bonus ...

... it's not like we're Chelsea, targeting the Champions League and missing out.

We're fresh from the play-offs and playing the likes of Rigg, Ballard, Enzo, O'Nien, Isidor, etc, all of whom played against teams like Oxford and Portsmouth. The only way they'll learn, as RLB keeps stressing, is by getting things, wrong, putting them right, and repeating that process.

Over the next month all kinds of things will happen. The title will be decided, one of the big London clubs will be relegated and some teams will qualify for Europe. If we're one of them I'd smile but, if not, I'll still smile and think about beating Chelsea away, thrashing West Ham at home and doing the double over Newcastle United.

I'll be at the Chelsea game, when hopefully we'll do the double over them, reach Europe and finish above the Mags ...

... tbh, I'd settle for any one of those three things

Yes so am I. Did not expect to be in this position at the start of the season and as a supporter for 60+ years it has been one of the best seasons in my lifetime. I was just looking at the remaining fixtures to see what was needed.

If we miss out so what but I would really like to stick it up the mags. That is not much to ask for is it?

Smug in Boots · Apr 20, 2026

Slim Jim B said:
Yes so am I. Did not expect to be in this position at the start of the season and as a supporter for 60+ years it has been one of the best seasons in my lifetime. I was just looking at the remaining fixtures to see what was needed.

If we miss out so what but I would really like to stick it up the mags. That is not much to ask for is it?

I’m with you mate, it’d be great to finish on a high.

Bank of England 2 · Apr 20, 2026

Very interesting week in the chase for Europe.

1. Monday Palace visit West Ham who are fighting to stay up and whose form has picked up lately
2. Tuesday Chelsea and Brighton play each other
3. Tuesday Bournemouth, who've drawn 5 of their last 7, host an ever improving Leeds, who need another win to guarantee safety
4. 3 draws above and a win for us at home to Forest and we're joint 6th on Friday night. Then on Saturday;
5. Fulham host Villa
6. Palace go to Anfield
7. Everton visit West Ham who are fighting to stay up and whose form has picked up lately and know that Spurs could win at Wolves
8. The deluded go to Arsenal. Then:
9. Brentford visit Old Trafford on Monday

Really tough fixtures for all of our near rivals. Tough to pick a likely win for any of them, particularly those playing on Saturday and Monday. Could still be joint 6th after that lot.

Essayyeffcee · Apr 20, 2026

Bank of England 2 said:
Very interesting week in the chase for Europe.

1. Monday Palace visit West Ham who are fighting to stay up and whose form has picked up lately
2. Tuesday Chelsea and Brighton play each other
3. Tuesday Bournemouth, who've drawn 5 of their last 7, host an ever improving Leeds, who need another win to guarantee safety
4. 3 draws above and a win for us at home to Forest and we're joint 6th on Friday night. Then on Saturday;
5. Fulham host Villa
6. Palace go to Anfield
7. Everton visit West Ham who are fighting to stay up and whose form has picked up lately and know that Spurs could win at Wolves
8. The deluded go to Arsenal. Then:
9. Brentford visit Old Trafford on Monday

Really tough fixtures for all of our near rivals. Tough to pick a likely win for any of them, particularly those playing on Saturday and Monday. Could still be joint 6th after that lot.

I could pick a winner for one of the games on Saturday, however, it would be totally biased!

RedNWhite4Life · Apr 20, 2026

Bank of England 2 said:
Very interesting week in the chase for Europe.

1. Monday Palace visit West Ham who are fighting to stay up and whose form has picked up lately
2. Tuesday Chelsea and Brighton play each other
3. Tuesday Bournemouth, who've drawn 5 of their last 7, host an ever improving Leeds, who need another win to guarantee safety
4. 3 draws above and a win for us at home to Forest and we're joint 6th on Friday night. Then on Saturday;
5. Fulham host Villa
6. Palace go to Anfield
7. Everton visit West Ham who are fighting to stay up and whose form has picked up lately and know that Spurs could win at Wolves
8. The deluded go to Arsenal. Then:
9. Brentford visit Old Trafford on Monday

Really tough fixtures for all of our near rivals. Tough to pick a likely win for any of them, particularly those playing on Saturday and Monday. Could still be joint 6th after that lot.

This is the kind of stuff I love its like when we get the wall charts out before a world cup and map the winner.

Ultimately though we've got nowt to fear from our remaining games. That point we almost had yesterday may be the deciding factor it may be totally irrelevant. All we can do is go out and try to win all our remaining games and hope it's enough.

Smug in Boots · Apr 20, 2026

RedNWhite4Life said:
This is the kind of stuff I love its like when we get the wall charts out before a world cup and map the winner.

Ultimately though we've got nowt to fear from our remaining games. That point we almost had yesterday may be the deciding factor it may be totally irrelevant. All we can do is go out and try to win all our remaining games and hope it's enough.

My thoughts entirely mate, it's swings and roundabouts ...

... deflected goal against Spurs, losing goal in seven yesterday.

Who knows what might happen on Friday.

RedNWhite4Life · Apr 20, 2026

Smug in Boots said:
My thoughts entirely mate, it's swings and roundabouts ...

... deflected goal against Spurs, losing goal in seven yesterday.

Who knows what might happen on Friday.

Whatever happens Friday it should be a good game with both teams going for the win. Forest may think a point is good enough for them but I reckon they will come for a win so should be an entertaining game as a draw is pretty meaningless to us.

Smug in Boots · Apr 20, 2026

RedNWhite4Life said:
Whatever happens Friday it should be a good game with both teams going for the win. Forest may think a point is good enough for them but I reckon they will come for a win so should be an entertaining game as a draw is pretty meaningless to us.

Good point mate, we may as well go for wins in every game ...

... clearly what happened at Villa.

Smug in Boots · Apr 20, 2026

Sunderland handed an assist for Friday...

"Winger Callum Hudson-Odoi set to miss rest of Nottingham Forest season with injury #NFFC"

The fight for Europe ...

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member