Election 2024

How are Labour doing after their first 12 months

  • Total voters
    20
brb said:
Funny as you should mention it, I was thinking yesterday when they announced how much benefits cost the state...something like £300B, but I'm like yeah but hang on a minute what does this all break down to, it probably includes pensions that people have paid into, it probably includes the triple lock that Labour haven't touched, it probably includes all the pensioners that Labour forced to sign on for benefits, when they took away there winter allowance.

Oh and they are going to save £5B, but they are spending £1B to implement the changes, and it will probably be even more than that, so the savings will be insignificant, much like they were taking the WFA away, and the savings will not be immediate, some of this stretches out to 2028. All it's doing is passing the parcel around, because Rachel from accounts wants to do a Spring Budget next week, the very Spring Budget she said she wasn't going to do, when she screwed empoyers over on the National Insurance increase.

The economy is grinding to a halt, it's ****ed, she knows she ****ed it, so she went to DWP and said right people, we need to bring austerity back, but we will disguise it as reform.
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They're not investing enough into the economy but the welfare state is extremely large.

https://wheredoesitallgo.org/

Welfare is at £313b, of that £150b is pensioner spending. Welfare is higher than health spending, which Reform UK target like crazy, it's quite clear that Farage want's to massive increase the scope of private healthcare which will be wholly damaging to the entire British economy as the model he loves (the French one) costs way more money.

Debt interest is £100b which is essentially a black hole.

Scotland also take £45b a year from the national budget and they want out of the ****ing thing. <laugh>

I agree with Labour on one thing, that increasing the tax burden will not solve the problem, more taxes will just decrease peoples spending power.
 
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Welshie said:
They're not investing enough into the economy but the welfare state is extremely large.

https://wheredoesitallgo.org/

Welfare is at £313b, of that £150b is pensioner spending. Welfare is higher than health spending, which Reform UK target like crazy, it's quite clear that Farage want's to massive increase the scope of private healthcare which will be wholly damaging to the entire British economy as the model he loves (the French one) costs way more money.

Debt interest is £100b which is essentially a black hole.

Scotland also take £45b a year from the national budget and they want out of the ****ing thing. <laugh>
Click to expand...

Suppose I should clarify what I meant....when they band a £300B about as 'benefits' it's misleading in the sense it's not just the ****ing PIP or UC bill...but it's purposely done like that to scare the **** out of people, which is fair enough but lets blame every ****er claiming on it, not just the chosen few.
 
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brb said:
Suppose I should clarify what I meant....when they band a £300B about as 'benefits' it's misleading in the sense it's not just the ****ing PIP or UC bill...buts it's purposely done like that to scare the **** out of people, which is fair enough but lets blame every ****er claiming on it, not just the chosen few.
Click to expand...

Yeah mate you're 100% correct.

It's highly misleading as you rightly thought, the "welfare" state which people often want cutting, 50% goes towards British pensioners, which as is evident people don't want to be touched.

Although there is a significant noise from left voters that argue the triple lock needs to go as it costs billions a year.

I'm not sure what to think about that honestly. I currently live in a country that doesn't have free at the point of use healthcare and have some controversial opinions about the British NHS. :emoticon-0107-sweat
 
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Welshie said:
Yeah mate you're 100% correct.

It's highly misleading as you rightly thought, the "welfare" state which people often want cutting, 50% goes towards British pensioners, which as is evident people don't want to be touched.

Although there is a significant noise from left voters that argue the triple lock needs to go as it costs billions a year.

I'm not sure what to think about that honestly. I currently live in a country that doesn't have free at the point of use healthcare and have some controversial opinions about the British NHS. :emoticon-0107-sweat
Click to expand...

I have mixed views on the NHS, I say this because some companies give employees health care, and some employees take up the option of using private care, if they pay into it. I also know that people might chose between NHS and Private care, dependent on the urgency. I think there needs to be flexability in the system for those that want to take it, so private should not be dismissed entirely.

It's a bit like prescriptions, sometimes with minor drugs, I'll just buy my own, especially if it is something that is difficult for the pharmacy to get hold of from their particular supplier. It depends what people can afford.

The only thing I would hasten to add to that, is the NHS should always be free from the outset.

I do question if the triple lock really needs to remain in place, but I'm also thinking I'm in my final years to retiring, so I'll shut the **** up and not mention it. <laugh>
 
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brb said:
I have mixed views on the NHS, I say this because some companies give employees health care, and some employees take up the option of using private care, if they pay into it. I also know that people might chose between NHS and Private care, dependent on the urgency. I think there needs to be flexability in the system for those that want to take it, so private should not be dismissed entirely.

It's a bit like prescriptions, sometimes with minor drugs, I'll just buy my own, especially if it is something that is difficult for the pharmacy to get hold of from their particular supplier. It depends what people can afford.

The only thing I would hasten to add to that, is the NHS should always be free from the outset.

I do question if the triple lock really needs to remain in place, but I'm also thinking I'm in my final years to retiring, so I'll shut the **** up and not mention it. <laugh>
Click to expand...

While I think having a state ran healthcare is good, private as an alternative should always be an option and it is one many people use.

Right now, I pay for doctors appointments and none vital services at hospitals, it varies on the price and usually for the hospital ones it's actually very low. This is not applicable to pensioners, for them everything is free as it is for anyone on a lower earning bracket, they also get free healthcare.

If you get time off from the doctor, as we call it a "sykemelding" you don't pay for the appointment as the appointment was deemed vital, if you're in for a checkup you pay.

This is in a country that has a high rate of base tax as it is, one of the highest tax burdens in all of Europe.

But most Brits are absolutely hellbent on free at the point of use and will go into meltdowns at any other suggestions, even if its as low as £10-20 for a doctors visit and would make a massive difference to the state finances.

Oh, follow up visits if set up by a doctor are free too.
 
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brb said:
I have mixed views on the NHS, I say this because some companies give employees health care, and some employees take up the option of using private care, if they pay into it. I also know that people might chose between NHS and Private care, dependent on the urgency. I think there needs to be flexability in the system for those that want to take it, so private should not be dismissed entirely.

It's a bit like prescriptions, sometimes with minor drugs, I'll just buy my own, especially if it is something that is difficult for the pharmacy to get hold of from their particular supplier. It depends what people can afford.

The only thing I would hasten to add to that, is the NHS should always be free from the outset.

I do question if the triple lock really needs to remain in place, but I'm also thinking I'm in my final years to retiring, so I'll shut the **** up and not mention it. <laugh>
Click to expand...

The problem with the NHS, Network Rail and Local Government is they are top loaded with middle management

Instead of spending extra money they receive on where its needed it is spent on layers of middle management with spreadsheets trying to prove the money has not been wasted, I know because I spent 14 years in Local Government and 22 years working for Network Rail or as a Contractor doing work for Network Rail/Railtrack

Never worked for the NHS but the structure appears to be the same and people I know who have worked or are working in the NHS all have the same complaints
 
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duggie2000 said:
The problem with the NHS, Network Rail and Local Government is they are top loaded with middle management

Instead of spending extra money they receive on where its needed it is spent on layers of middle management with spreadsheets trying to prove the money has not been wasted, I know because I spent 14 years in Local Government and 22 years working for Network Rail or as a Contractor doing work for Network Rail/Railtrack

Never worked for the NHS but the structure appears to be the same and people I know who have worked or are working in the NHS all have the same complaints
Click to expand...

I worked for the NHS for nearly 20 years and can confirm it is bulging at the seams with middle management.

I was on a band 7 wage when I was there as I was heading up an entire dept and managing around 36 people. But my managers were people on £60k+ who just number crunched, gave out impossible task lists and never had any patient contact.

The worst kind of people to employ, expensive, ineffective and just made my life more difficult than it should have been
 
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Welshie said:
While I think having a state ran healthcare is good, private as an alternative should always be an option and it is one many people use.

Right now, I pay for doctors appointments and none vital services at hospitals, it varies on the price and usually for the hospital ones it's actually very low. This is not applicable to pensioners, for them everything is free as it is for anyone on a lower earning bracket, they also get free healthcare.

If you get time off from the doctor, as we call it a "sykemelding" you don't pay for the appointment as the appointment was deemed vital, if you're in for a checkup you pay.

This is in a country that has a high rate of base tax as it is, one of the highest tax burdens in all of Europe.

But most Brits are absolutely hellbent on free at the point of use and will go into meltdowns at any other suggestions, even if its as low as £10-20 for a doctors visit and would make a massive difference to the state finances.

Oh, follow up visits if set up by a doctor are free too.
Click to expand...

I think we **** about too much with our taxes at every election, so the parties can win votes, the thing is it then creates problems, because you made promises.

I honestly think the basic rate of income tax in this country is too low. While those in the next upper bracket will argue you're taxing us too much, which is probably true.

When I was young with a family, I just accepted the hit on income tax, there was no point questioning it, it is what is.

When they lowered the basic rate from 25%, my thoughts were, why have they done that, what are the government ****ing about at. Then they just move the tax to other stuff and it gets silly, VAT, Council Tax, cigs up, booze up, just stop ****ing about with it all.

Now we've ****ed about with the taxes so much the state can't afford to pay for what we need. Add into that what's been creamed off and stolen by past governments.
 
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duggie2000 said:
The problem with the NHS, Network Rail and Local Government is they are top loaded with middle management

Instead of spending extra money they receive on where its needed it is spent on layers of middle management with spreadsheets trying to prove the money has not been wasted, I know because I spent 14 years in Local Government and 22 years working for Network Rail or as a Contractor doing work for Network Rail/Railtrack

Never worked for the NHS but the structure appears to be the same and people I know who have worked or are working in the NHS all have the same complaints
Click to expand...

I believe Starmer has just binned off NHS England, so that's some middle management gone - although it's 13,000 people we've just chucked on the benefit bill. <laugh>

Right decision though.
 
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Welshie said:
While I think having a state ran healthcare is good, private as an alternative should always be an option and it is one many people use.

Right now, I pay for doctors appointments and none vital services at hospitals, it varies on the price and usually for the hospital ones it's actually very low. This is not applicable to pensioners, for them everything is free as it is for anyone on a lower earning bracket, they also get free healthcare.

If you get time off from the doctor, as we call it a "sykemelding" you don't pay for the appointment as the appointment was deemed vital, if you're in for a checkup you pay.

This is in a country that has a high rate of base tax as it is, one of the highest tax burdens in all of Europe.

But most Brits are absolutely hellbent on free at the point of use and will go into meltdowns at any other suggestions, even if its as low as £10-20 for a doctors visit and would make a massive difference to the state finances.

Oh, follow up visits if set up by a doctor are free too.
Click to expand...
This is because when working we pay "national Insurance" which is supposed to pay for any medical needs that may arise in your life.

Unfortunately we now have too many people who decide not to work and live off state payments ( many of which clog up the health service with problems related to booz, cigs and drugs (lifestyle choice).
 
brb said:
I think we **** about too much with our taxes at every election, so the parties can win votes, the thing is it then creates problems, because you made promises.

I honestly think the basic rate of income tax in this country is too low. While those in the next upper bracket will argue you're taxing us too much, which is probably true.

When I was young with a family, I just accepted the hit on income tax, there was no point questioning it, it is what is.

When they lowered the basic rate from 25%, my thoughts were, why have they done that, what are the government ****ing about at. Then they just move the tax to other stuff and it gets silly, VAT, Council Tax, cigs up, booze up, just stop ****ing about with it all.

Now we've ****ed about with the taxes so much the state can't afford to pay for what we need. Add into that what's been creamed off and stolen by past governments.
Click to expand...

A lot of the problems in regards to the countries high spending on welfare, pensioners, etc, etc, etc, is what the UK considers to be "poverty." In the UK we consider someone living in poverty simply if they are under 60% of median household income, this is actually really high and more so how you measure inequality not "poverty"

That's why you hear politicians sneakily use the term "relative poverty" like, "In the UK, 1 in 3 children are living in relative poverty." So, the cost of raising people out of this poverty is way, way too high for this country to ever actually achieve. You can tax people until the cows come home, you will not fix that issue. I'd probably just change what the UK even defines as someone living in poverty to something that reflects reality and isn't just a soundbite.
 
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Diego said:
This is because when working we pay "national Insurance" which is supposed to pay for any medical needs that may arise in your life.

Unfortunately we now have too many people who decide not to work and live off state payments ( many of which clog up the health service with problems related to booz, cigs and drugs (lifestyle choice).
Click to expand...

I know mate but I honestly think the national insurance thing is bollocks man. It doesn't cover the costs, how can it?

You pay your council tax so would expect that to cover the costs of most things, but the council still finds ways to bleed as much cash out of you as possible on top of your tax, cos the tax simply doesn't cover it. The same applies to the NHS but we are very scared of introducing any further costs.
 
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brb said:
I believe Starmer has just binned off NHS England, so that's some middle management gone - although it's 13,000 people we've just chucked on the benefit bill. <laugh>

Right decision though.
Click to expand...
Probably right but should have had a 12 month assesment where people went round asking the question "what exactly do you do" to each employee so as to decide who if any were needed.
 
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Welshie said:
I know mate but I honestly think the national insurance thing is bollocks man. It doesn't cover the costs, how can it?

You pay your council tax so would expect that to cover the costs of most things, but the council still finds ways to bleed as much cash out of you as possible on top of your tax, cos the tax simply doesn't cover it. The same applies to the NHS but we are very scared of introducing any further costs.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is councils and government just spunk money down the drain, Italy have the mafia, we just have out and out lying crooks who feed money to their mates.
 
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