Match Day Thread Hammers away next

Defensive mistakes and carelessness cost us goals against Man City, Southampton, Villa, and again today somethings not right, I realise that it's a huge step up and we have to find out who can make the grade and who cant but today's dreadful performance is worrying, ok we missed Tuanzebe and Johnson looks extremely average coupled to Hutch not really competing in this division so far.
The one outstanding plus point is Delap but he is the only one scoring in the main

Little bird tells me Delap will be off to Chelsea in January, don’t shoot the messenger

ristac said:

Little bird tells me Delap will be off to Chelsea in January, don’t shoot the messenger

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Wow, you can read!! What you meant to say is, I've seen, all over social media, that Chelsea might go after Delap....along with about 20 other strikers!! So your little bird is social media and as for don't shoot the messenger...it's old news!!

fieldmarshall said:

Defensive mistakes and carelessness cost us goals against Man City, Southampton, Villa, and again today somethings not right, I realise that it's a huge step up and we have to find out who can make the grade and who cant but today's dreadful performance is worrying, ok we missed Tuanzebe and Johnson looks extremely average coupled to Hutch not really competing in this division so far.
The one outstanding plus point is Delap but he is the only one scoring in the main

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We can afford to get outplayed and beat 4-1 occasionally if we take our chances in the tight games but we are seven games in and we need to do more than stick to the process - at times McKenna needs to roll the dice.

I think the thing which is most concerning after a generally positive start is that we've gone backwards in elements of our game. Is this because the players we've brought in aren't as good or is it because we've got a team full of new players....either is slightly concerning and maybe we've tried to integrate too many too soon.

Bigal2 said:

I stick by what I said earlier,our two worst performances were against the two sides we had the highest expectations of beating.Nerves,complacency,who knows??

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We can’t put it down to that. We handed Man City and Villa goals on a silver platter too.

These errors are not happening now and again on the contrary, they are happening consistently and it is concerning, to say it's complacency and to be expected is evading the issue.

These errors, they were happening to you in the Championship, just like they are every team in the lower divisions, they go unnoticed because 90% of the time you get away with it, we all do. You all accept the jump up to the PL is vast, part of that gap is that these mistakes get punished more frequently at this level.

Honestly joking aside, if the likes of Smodzic were really that good, a top 10 side would take a gamble, you got Omari, scouts and coaches at his previous clubs didn’t make a mistake, they knew he wasn’t PL ready.

£20m at PL level buys you a gamble from abroad, if spent in the UK it buys you little. You were all riding on a high, those that have sampled the dirty PL that we all want to be part of have been there done it and wore the t-shirt

I’d imagine your rise was quicker than expected and you were lacking connections or scouts from overseas so you hoovered up the best you could afford at Championsip level. Yes you got KP but he is on such a downward spiral, he was poor at Leeds until Bielsa arrived.

I want Leeds promoted this season, if we are the chances are we’ll be in the same boat again.

I get the sentiment ristac and I think we've all felt the significant different between the EFL and PL but some of the mistakes we are making we weren't last season and that's because we've got so many new players trying to integrate into the team, many of them young and we're trying to get points in the PL whilst developing that and develop them.

After watching how McKenna operates players take time to integrate into the team for example Hladky last season first few weeks looked dodgy, then after a while he became essential in how we play but that was one change in a settled line up. Last time we recruited this many players it took us over a season to look like an accomplished team.

I feel like we've tried to integrate too many players too quickly. Yes undoubtedly the quality is higher but there's a lack of partnerships on the pitch with players still figuring out how each other play. We're getting caught out positionally more where we didn't last season. Delap has been brilliant but he's been in the main creating things out of nothing rather than bringing others into play or creating space for them.

Villa was a great performance, today not so and we have to be patient. I just hope we haven't done more harm to our chances by bringing in too many new players too fast.

itfcptc said:

I get the sentiment ristac and I think we've all felt the significant different between the EFL and PL but some of the mistakes we are making we weren't last season and that's because we've got so many new players trying to integrate into the team, many of them young and we're trying to get points in the PL whilst developing that and develop them.

After watching how McKenna operates players take time to integrate into the team for example Hladky last season first few weeks looked dodgy, then after a while he became essential in how we play but that was one change in a settled line up. Last time we recruited this many players it took us over a season to look like an accomplished team.

I feel like we've tried to integrate too many players too quickly. Yes undoubtedly the quality is higher but there's a lack of partnerships on the pitch with players still figuring out how each other play. We're getting caught out positionally more where we didn't last season. Delap has been brilliant but he's been in the main creating things out of nothing rather than bringing others into play or creating space for them.

Villa was a great performance, today not so and we have to be patient. I just hope we haven't done more harm to our chances by bringing in too many new players too fast.

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When we went up with Bielsa we thought we’d struck gold, we did well season one finishing mid table but it was behind closed doors due to Covid. Bielsa had turned average championship players into a good squad, but then we came unstuck as the signings continued to arrive.

If we signed a player they’d not be Bielsa ready for 8 weeks minimum, we’d not see them play and we all used to get as frustrated as hell. Money has destroyed the PL and it takes a season or two making up the numbers before it really sinks in.

It’s a three tier league, few break in or drop out the top 8

I noticed one of your guys saying you’re ahead of schedule, you possibly are as you really need young talent ready to make the step up. It’s so hard spending £100m wisely and when you spread that over 10 players (or region of) it’s a gamble.

As an outsider looking in, your transfer activity screamed one of two things, scatter gun approach or your coach considered the majority of your players were not good enough. Maybe he under estimated those that got you there, individually lacking, but as a team lots of small cogs that turned the big wheel.

When I’m on here having a wind-up, it’s only to have a dig at Spanish who enjoys his visits to the Leeds forum. I do see so many similarities of when we went up after a long absence and thinking we’ll be okay we have Bielsa.

To be successful in the PL after a long absence you need a bottomless pit of money and a way of fooling fair play. The reason teams like Man City go for Pep and why Jose was around for so long has nothing to do with their coaching skills, it’s because they handle the egos well. Players valued in excess of £50m all have one. It’s the coaching staff that work with the players who are responsible for improving them and why teams invest massively at youth level

Look at how many coaches for City, Chelsea, Man U and the others go on well to succeed in the championship.

If you are signing a player in England aged 24 or older for around £15m, then I guarantee that they’ve been looked over and scouted extensively by even the likes of Brighton. They’ve been considered not good enough, look at Spurs buying Gray from us £40m and Rutter to Brighton £40m it’s crazy

It wasn't a good game for us.

First 10/15 minutes our press was really good and we caused problems but after that it just went downhill. Clarke played too narrow, Burns wouldn't take his man on and Hutch ran into dead ends again. Phillips struggled today, Morsy was good though, taking the ball, shielding it and driving or passing on.

Leif is getting found out in defence, I have no idea why he went with the runner instead of sticking to the player with the ball for the first goal. Greaves did some good stuff but also some not so good things. I thought O'Shea had a good game overall. We missed Axel today, I'm pretty sure Kudus would've been nullified a lot more had he played. Muric is a great shot stopper, I dislike how he doesn't look for the quick throw out though, just holds onto the ball as if he wants to give us a breather or something. Wish he'd get the ball moving faster.

Delap can't last 90 minutes, at the moment he's a 60 minute player. Our success over the last couple of seasons has come from telling the front four to run their socks off for 60 and then get subbed. It's how our press continues to work for a whole match. For some reason, McK is waiting to make subs now and it's costing us badly because we end up playing for about 20 minutes (between 60 and 80) with no energy, no press and under the cosh.

I thought Chaplin showed some good signs, finding pockets of space and playing decent balls forward. Taylor got stuck in but with the subs coming so late in the match, they have little time to really make an impact.

Like ptc says, we're lacking fluidity at the moment. We do have a lot of new players integrating into the team, and I want to have faith that it will come good, but you can't waste too many games while you work towards that goal. The PL season is 38 games, not the 46 we've been used to. That doesn't leave much room for mistakes, or learning time, you need to be getting it right sooner rather than later. It may mean bringing the likes of Chaplin back in. Delap should start, he's been playing well, but Hirst, Chaplin and Taylor should be getting at least 30 minutes every match.

We weren't aggressive enough in attack, no strong running in behind or driving with the ball committing players, and we slowed it down too often. The speed of passing needs to be quicker, the runs need to be sooner and the passes need to be on point. Lots of lessons to be learned from this one. We've got two weeks to work on improvement.

Bigal2 said:

But we showed more fight in both those matches.

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I didn’t see a lack of fight. West Ham played with high intensity and kept it up until they were three goals in front. It was made to look worse by the hapless Johnson. Brighton only played with that intensity for very short spells and failed to exploit us. Unfortunately we poured fuel on the fire and did plenty of ridiculous things yesterday that just gave West Ham encouragement.

Well, if it's any consolation, that's the best we've played for over a year. Your 2 weaknesses are the 2 players who were in the C & B last season.
Johnson is championship level, had high hopes for him after his debut game when he had to fill in at LB v City and put Mahrez in his pocket until Pep decided to get him out by subbing him off. Sadly he never reached that level again, his saving grace was he could do a semi-decent job anywhere across the back or down the wings and was a cheap home grown player, which helped with the bullshit rules.
And Phillips, lol I pity you tbh, that was his best game for us by a country mile, thought he would come back an haunt us, but he was almost as crap for you as he was for us. A cheap give-away for our first and ghosted passed for our 3rd, his main contribution was needless fouls. At least he put in some effort, something he never did for us. Of course that could've been because he wanted to out one over on us after we let him go after his disastrous spell. He will appear on many of the 'worst players you've seen play for West Ham' lists.
I think you'll stay up, but if you don't it'll be because you keep ****ing about with the ball in your own area.

Big Ern said:

Well, if it's any consolation, that's the best we've played for over a year. Your 2 weaknesses are the 2 players who were in the C & B last season.
Johnson is championship level, had high hopes for him after his debut game when he had to fill in at LB v City and put Mahrez in his pocket until Pep decided to get him out by subbing him off. Sadly he never reached that level again, his saving grace was he could do a semi-decent job anywhere across the back or down the wings and was a cheap home grown player, which helped with the bullshit rules.
And Phillips, lol I pity you tbh, that was his best game for us by a country mile, thought he would come back an haunt us, but he was almost as crap for you as he was for us. A cheap give-away for our first and ghosted passed for our 3rd, his main contribution was needless fouls. At least he put in some effort, something he never did for us. Of course that could've been because he wanted to out one over on us after we let him go after his disastrous spell. He will appear on many of the 'worst players you've seen play for West Ham' lists.
I think you'll stay up, but if you don't it'll be because you keep ****ing about with the ball in your own area.

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Honestly, I think if we stay up it will be because we **** about with the ball in our own area, keep our heads and keep working hard. We just need to be a lot sharper. I expected us to have a better second half of the season than first and I still think that will be the case - provided we don’t have a big gap open up to seventh / eighth bottom before Christmas.

McKenna has a problem now that you can’t solve with logic. The players aren’t enjoying their football, the fans don’t love the players and every side we play will fancy their chances. The only way to solve that is to double down on playing expressive football and give homegrown players and last seasons’ crowd pleasers - Woolfy, Luongo, Harry Clarke, Chaplin, Hirst as well as Szmodics and Ogbene who can get the crowd up - more game time and have some fun with it, which was very much lacking yesterday.

Big Ern said:

Well, if it's any consolation, that's the best we've played for over a year. Your 2 weaknesses are the 2 players who were in the C & B last season.
Johnson is championship level, had high hopes for him after his debut game when he had to fill in at LB v City and put Mahrez in his pocket until Pep decided to get him out by subbing him off. Sadly he never reached that level again, his saving grace was he could do a semi-decent job anywhere across the back or down the wings and was a cheap home grown player, which helped with the bullshit rules.
And Phillips, lol I pity you tbh, that was his best game for us by a country mile, thought he would come back an haunt us, but he was almost as crap for you as he was for us. A cheap give-away for our first and ghosted passed for our 3rd, his main contribution was needless fouls. At least he put in some effort, something he never did for us. Of course that could've been because he wanted to out one over on us after we let him go after his disastrous spell. He will appear on many of the 'worst players you've seen play for West Ham' lists.
I think you'll stay up, but if you don't it'll be because you keep ****ing about with the ball in your own area.

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Naturally as Town fans, we’re picking holes in our team’s performance and failings, but that was a ruthless West Ham performance. You exploited space and played some fast interchanges that ultimately did us in. A degree of that was our own mistakes, errors at playing out from the back, and some really poor individual performances.

It’s been brought up frequently, and I ranted about it throughout the match, but Johnson was the worst player on the pitch. The news that Tuanzebe might be out for a prolonged spell is scary. Hopefully Harry Clarke is fit after a well timed international break. Leif struggled and has struggled to step up to this level. The central midfield struggled to keep and distribute the ball. Attacking wise, we looked blunt and predictable. Hutchinson was wasteful on the ball, but my main concern were the wide players - Clarke and Burns. Didn’t do much attacking wise and kept quiet. Didn’t really track back and help the full backs when West Ham was on the attack.

As others have mentioned, it’ll take time for the new signings to be fully integrated. And time is running out. I still believe the investment and recruitment was necessary for us to have any chance of bridging the gap and staying up in this league. Relegation is a real threat, and a real possibility if we don’t pick up at least one win over the next few games.

I don’t think we should get our heads down yet. We showed some real encouraging signs over the previous few games before that defeat. We’re going to get smashed by Premier League sides occasionally. It’s all about the response for us against Everton.

YorkieLancsHampyLondoner said:

Honestly, I think if we stay up it will be because we **** about with the ball in our own area, keep our heads and keep working hard. We just need to be a lot sharper. I expected us to have a better second half of the season than first and I still think that will be the case - provided we don’t have a big gap open up to seventh / eighth bottom before Christmas.

McKenna has a problem now that you can’t solve with logic. The players aren’t enjoying their football, the fans don’t love the players and every side we play will fancy their chances. The only way to solve that is to double down on playing expressive football and give homegrown players and last seasons’ crowd pleasers - Woolfy, Luongo, Harry Clarke, Chaplin, Hirst as well as Szmodics and Ogbene who can get the crowd up - more game time and have some fun with it, which was very much lacking yesterday.

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Too much is read into 'players not enjoying the football' that's purely fan fiction, if they're winning they don't give a **** what style it is, you just have to look at how many great players were happy playing for Bourinho, and how many begged to join him compared with those who wanted to leave. Their main concern is playing in the first XI, then playing well, then winning.
There's a time to play out the back, and there's a time to just get rid, when you're 3 v 4 you just get rid.