Match Day Thread Southampton vs Rotherham. Sat, 7 Oct. 15:00

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Following post not aimed at any one person but there's a recurring theme about "not playing RM's way"

It might be worth considering why so many posters have drawn the conclusion that appears to suggest that the team are playing against RM's orders (oddly enough always in the periods when we're successful). Is that really what you all think is going on?

Before you say that isn't the point you're making, I can't think of any other explanation. RM is in charge for 90 minutes a game, so it's all his style of play unless players really are going their own way. Either they are playing his way or they are not. There's no middle ground.

He's a kind of Schrödinger's manager. He has only a single style of play but one of those single styles of play is successful and the other one of those single styles of play is terrible.

Vin
 
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Onionman said:
Following post not aimed at any one person but there's a recurring theme about "not playing RM's way"

It might be worth considering why so many posters have drawn the conclusion that appears to suggest that the team are playing against RM's orders (oddly enough always in the periods when we're successful). Is that really what you all think is going on?

Before you say that isn't the point you're making, I can't think of any other explanation. RM is in charge for 90 minutes a game, so it's all his style of play unless players really are going their own way. Either they are playing his way or they are not. There's no middle ground.

He's a kind of Schrödinger's manager. He has only a single style of play but one of those single styles of play is successful and the other one of those single styles of play is terrible.

Vin
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Eh? I think most on here, who are, frustrated with our style, results, performance, etc believe the team are playing to the RM plan which shackles our offensive abilities. That’s the way I see it anyway.
 
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Onionman said:
Following post not aimed at any one person but there's a recurring theme about "not playing RM's way"

It might be worth considering why so many posters have drawn the conclusion that appears to suggest that the team are playing against RM's orders (oddly enough always in the periods when we're successful). Is that really what you all think is going on?

Before you say that isn't the point you're making, I can't think of any other explanation. RM is in charge for 90 minutes a game, so it's all his style of play unless players really are going their own way. Either they are playing his way or they are not. There's no middle ground.

He's a kind of Schrödinger's manager. He has only a single style of play but one of those single styles of play is successful and the other one of those single styles of play is terrible.

Vin
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No, that isn’t what we are saying. We are saying that RM has abandoned his principles - particularly in the way we start games. There is a delivery policy of going direct- exemplified by the ball back to the keeper to go long from our kickoffs.

This spell of abandoned RM ball works really well as teams are not expecting it. What is annoying is that we then go back to the slow build up if and when we take the lead. Evidence: second halves vs Leeds, Stoke and Rotherham. In attempting to revert to the RM ball, we slow everything down and give up the dynamism and impetus we clawed from the opposition by playing this new, direct RM football.

In effect, we dilute our ideology at the start of games and it works. We then revert to the ideology and… it doesn’t.
 
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Just watched the last 15 minutes of the Brighton game. The difference in energy, quality and desire is unfathomable. How have we sunk so low?
 
Giboman said:
Just watched the last 15 minutes of the Brighton game. The difference in energy, quality and desire is unfathomable. How have we sunk so low?
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If you'd managed to see the first hour, you'd have regularly seen Brighton's midfield receiving the ball from their defenders and then carrying it forward. So impressive. As opposed for just short passing for the sake of it.

Smallbone in particular is really frustrating me with that. He needs to improve his spatial awareness. Too often he passes it straight back where it came from, because he's facing Bazuna and has no idea of the space he has to just turn and bring it.
 
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st_brendy said:
If you'd managed to see the first hour, you'd have regularly seen Brighton's midfield receiving the ball from their defenders and then carrying it forward. So impressive. As opposed for just short passing for the sake of it.

Smallbone in particular is really frustrating me with that. He needs to improve his spatial awareness. Too often he passes it straight back where it came from, because he's facing Bazuna and has no idea of the space he has to just turn and bring it.
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I pointed out a week or so ago that too many of our midfielders are receiving the ball with their body closed so they they aren’t aware of the space around them and can then only pass backwards or sideways.
They need to angle their bodies a bit to give them the option to turn. It would also help as well if they weren’t receiving passes when they have a player right on their heels, which often happens when the CBs are pressed.
 
We often had players making runs off the ball, but they never received the ball, is it because we haven't got a player with the ability to deliver the pass or are they programmed to only play the "safe" pass? Will Smallbone first thought of a pass is always towards his own goal, never forward. Too many of our players are always looking back and not looking for a positive forward movement. On the rare occasions they get near the opposition penalty area they always seem to run in to a Cul De Sac and the move peters out. We need a striker that creates chances out of nothing, Ballard was good at that, Dibling is also good at that, given the opportunity.
 
Le Tissier's Laces said:
We can’t just keep chopping and changing managers like mad bastards, hoping to jammily land upon the solution. We keep saying that it’s madness to choose a manager with no record of success, but that’s exactly what Leicester did with Maresca, and they’ve been fortunate that it’s worked out for them. It could quite easily have gone the other way.

Now do we chop and change like Watford or Forest and hope we land on the “next big thing”? No, that’s insane. It confuses the hell out of the players, let alone everyone else. We need to be patient and see how things develop. Now it might not work out with RM, but it’s way too early to be making those kind of calls just yet. At least this side of the new year. Yes, we could get Warnock or someone like that, who “knows the league”, but we’d be straight back down the other side, and we’d hate our football. Believe it or not, the club are thinking in terms of long term planning here, and giving the club an identity.
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Not sure I particularly like our football now. Do we have an identity apart from press the Saints defence and you will get a goal. And yes, I am a Warnock fan and would say we would far more likely be promoted with him in charge than RM. Get promoted and then find a successor. This is beginning to feel like 2006 all over again
 
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Toss saints said:
Not sure I particularly like our football now. Do we have an identity apart from press the Saints defence and you will get a goal. And yes, I am a Warnock fan and would say we would far more likely be promoted with him in charge than RM. Get promoted and then find a successor. This is beginning to feel like 2006 all over again
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Agree. I thought it was accepted that you needed one team and manager to get you to the PL, then another to keep you there.
 
I really feel for the manager and players at the moment. They went out and played bloody well for the first 45mins and in spells in the first half. Nobody looked like they couldn't care less. They pulled on the shirt with pride, stepped out in front of their supposed fans, dominated a game which but for a brilliant keeper display they would have won at a canter. They get undone by a lucky moment of brilliance that probably wouldn't happen again in a month of Sundays, they earn a draw and then get boo'ed for their efforts. That's **** IMO.

12th man works both ways and if I was a player at the club at the moment I'd think the fanbase was playing for the other team. Looking at home form I'd say that'd be largely correct. I'd say the squad and manager is pretty disappointed with the fans right now and I cant blame them. Who'd want that kind of support or play their hearts out for them?
 
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Dell Boy said:
Don't think tiredness was an issue as both teams played in midweek. The walking pace for 30mins. after halftime was solely down to RM.
Also Rotherham had a lot of first teamers out for this game, whereas we fielded our 'strongest' side.
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Not claiming we were more tired than them, but normal game fatigue would affect us more than them, it’s phsychological as well as physical. I don’t believe for a minute that RM told them to stop moving off the ball
 
shoot_spiderman said:
Not claiming we were more tired than them, but normal game fatigue would affect us more than them, it’s phsychological as well as physical. I don’t believe for a minute that RM told them to stop moving off the ball
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Why would normal game fatigue affect us more than them?

I thought the whole point of this sideways propaganda boring football was to tire the opposition. If we end up even more tired then why are we sticking with this style?
 
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SaintinNZ said:
I really feel for the manager and players at the moment. They went out and played bloody well for the first 45mins and in spells in the first half. Nobody looked like they couldn't care less. They pulled on the shirt with pride, stepped out in front of their supposed fans, dominated a game which but for a brilliant keeper display they would have won at a canter. They get undone by a lucky moment of brilliance that probably wouldn't happen again in a month of Sundays, they earn a draw and then get boo'ed for their efforts. That's **** IMO.

12th man works both ways and if I was a player at the club at the moment I'd think the fanbase was playing for the other team. Looking at home form I'd say that'd be largely correct. I'd say the squad and manager is pretty disappointed with the fans right now and I cant blame them. Who'd want that kind of support or play their hearts out for them?
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Someone on Saintsweb posted a post-match interview with RM after playing Rochdale and scraping a draw... in his Swansea days. What was fascinating was that he was moaning about the fans booing and calling out one fan in particular - exactly like he did after this game.

What does that tell you? This is not a brand of football that is easy to get behind. Swansea fans were glad to see him go despite being on a run of 9 wins in 10 games. It also tells you that it is easy to scapegoat the fans. In the first half he had all the support he could need. The transition to a slower style lead the fans to get annoyed. Maybe the fans just knew it was a mistake?
 
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Yep Ralph so[/QUOTE]
shoot_spiderman said:
RMs half-time talk …

“We’ll done lads, that was brilliant, all that movement and creativity, you’d be 4 up if it wasn’t for their keeper. Now 2nd half I’d like you to stop all that and just pass the ball around pointlessly so we can try and hang on to our one goal lead. Flynn and Will, remember no forward passes” o_O
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Who knows but whatever he said clearly wasn't inspirational and,although I appreciate your ironic attempt, effectively had the same effect as what you suggested!
 
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Toss saints said:
Not sure I particularly like our football now. Do we have an identity apart from press the Saints defence and you will get a goal. And yes, I am a Warnock fan and would say we would far more likely be promoted with him in charge than RM. Get promoted and then find a successor. This is beginning to feel like 2006 all over again
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I get that, and I'm no real fan of how we're playing now, but we're clearly trying to become a Man City jnr, a "Man City you order on Wish", a Man ****ty, and that's the identity the club have clearly set out to try and emulate. It's not working, just yet, but it's pretty clear that's the direction. It may well not work, or it might work, but with a different manager, but at least we're striving to be something. Last season we were just messing about trying to bludgeon our way into not being relegated, with no clear style at all.
 
I have to say, their keeper
Osvaldorama said:
My apologies, you’re right. But it does feel like a loss.

Bazunu has been redeeming himself in the last two games but I don’t think he should have been lobbed from there.

I maintain my opinion that he is a shocking keeper. Massive mistake not strengthening there IMO
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The reason he was lobbed is because he is the main cog in this RM system of passing the ball around at the back. He was anticipating another back pass and was so far of his line. Can we pouch the Rotherham keeper in January?
 
SAINTOSPREY said:
We often had players making runs off the ball, but they never received the ball, is it because we haven't got a player with the ability to deliver the pass or are they programmed to only play the "safe" pass? Will Smallbone first thought of a pass is always towards his own goal, never forward. Too many of our players are always looking back and not looking for a positive forward movement. On the rare occasions they get near the opposition penalty area they always seem to run in to a Cul De Sac and the move peters out. We need a striker that creates chances out of nothing, Ballard was good at that, Dibling is also good at that, given the opportunity.
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Just summed up our problems with one comment :emoticon-0137-clapp
 
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