Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Brentford

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Dier Hard said:
It’s not competition we need for Richarlison though, it’s a replacement. If we only get competition then we’ve essentially already lost the battle as it’s borderline suicidal if we finish the window having lost Kane and being left with Richarlison and a backup whilst Veliz settles. The drop from Kane to Richarlison isn’t too dissimilar from Berbatov to Fraizer Campbell. We know we’ll never replace Kane but we have to find a way to ensure that gap is closed more significantly than it currently is. Whether that’s Orban for his potential or maybe going Juve to test their financial situation for Vlahovic, something needs to be done to ensure we’re not left up **** creek for striking options.
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I do wonder where Richarlison’s head is at. He played second fiddle to Kane (obviously), and barely got a chance last year. During that time there’s been so much speculation on social media from fans about the money we spent on him, whether he was a waste of money, whether he’s the right type of player etc.
he’s bound to have seen all of that, and whilst some players will have the mental strength to prove people wrong, others do not. I wonder if the last year may have taken it’s toll on his belief in himself and the shoes he’s expected to fill.

but the reality from a fans perspective is that his record of games to goals ratio isn’t fantastic and never has been.
he’s sure to know that too, and I wonder if the expectation is too much for him.
 
Don't pay any attention to MOTD. They rarely do justice to any Spurs performance. I only watch it to see the goals . Fast forward through the analysis..

As for
Roo said:
Wasn’t able to watch the game yesterday, so caught up with MOTD highlights, which were very different to what I’d expected, based on what I’d read on social media and here.

apparently we had the majority of possession, but the footage looked like we barely touched the ball and were outplayed by Brentford.

from what I did see (which no amount of editing can alter) was Maddison looked like he’s really comfortable and slotted in well. We’ve needed a player like him for ages.

the Son “tackle” was never a penalty. Once again VAR proves to be totally inadequate. At the same time, vicario was very lucky to get away with that challenge where he rushed out of goal. Really surprised we didn’t concede a penalty there. The small amount of highlights we got to see of him didn’t look great, to be honest. But it’s his first game in the PL, so we need to give him time. Fingers crossed we’ve not got another Gomes/Gollini.

Also, didn’t see Richarlison touch the ball once, until the pundits started highlighting his game, which showed some poor decision making over shots at goal.
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Don't pay any attention to MOTD. They rarely do justice to any Spurs performance. I only watch it to see the goals . Fast forward through the analysis..

Vicario wasn't lucky. The player had completed his shot a long time before Vicario slid into him.
 
As for the reallly poor performance from Son and Richi.
Kulu and Son were wingers, barely coming inside because that is for Emerson and Udogie..
If that is the way we are going to play then Perisic is far superior to Son in that position and Son can play in the centre instead of Richi. I know he hasn't got any heading ability, but Ange doesn't want us to cross balls in the air, he prefers the low passes.
 
Roo said:
I do wonder where Richarlison’s head is at. He played second fiddle to Kane (obviously), and barely got a chance last year. During that time there’s been so much speculation on social media from fans about the money we spent on him, whether he was a waste of money, whether he’s the right type of player etc.
he’s bound to have seen all of that, and whilst some players will have the mental strength to prove people wrong, others do not. I wonder if the last year may have taken it’s toll on his belief in himself and the shoes he’s expected to fill.

but the reality from a fans perspective is that his record of games to goals ratio isn’t fantastic and never has been.
he’s sure to know that too, and I wonder if the expectation is too much for him.
Click to expand...

I actually think that Richarlison has quite a strong mentality, I also feel he believes he’s far better than he is too. His ego/ mentality is potentially inflated due to the fact he’s Brazil’s number 9 but considering the options for the role at present are him or Jesus, two players with less than impressive strike rates, it’s a sign of the times at how Brazil have fallen.

I’ve just never rated the guy full stop though. Years before we signed him I wasn’t a fan. Average player, average strike rate and with a penchant for diving. I’m personally struggling with the idea we could be heading into the season once the window’s shut with him as our first choice striker. Of the last 15+ or so years, I think he’s probably bottom three of who we’ve had, along with Soldado and Janssen (won’t include Campbell who was on loan).

As for social media, I’d like to think clubs have people in place to make players aware that they won’t always read things they’ll like and are there to support them if they choose to stay on social media and get abuse/ criticism. My personal opinion on social media is stay off it if you can’t hack criticism/ abuse anyway, there’s a lot of positives to it but a cesspit of negatives.
 
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Blue and White said:
As for the reallly poor performance from Son and Richi.
Kulu and Son were wingers, barely coming inside because that is for Emerson and Udogie..
If that is the way we are going to play then Perisic is far superior to Son in that position and Son can play in the centre instead of Richi. I know he hasn't got any heading ability, but Ange doesn't want us to cross balls in the air, he prefers the low passes.
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I think it’s worth trying. Son had a poor last season but has proven over the years to be a very strong finisher off either foot.
 
Dier Hard said:
I actually think that Richarlison has quite a strong mentality, I also feel he believes he’s far better than he is too. His ego/ mentality is potentially inflated due to the fact he’s Brazil’s number 9 but considering the options for the role at present are him or Jesus, two players with less than impressive strike rates, it’s a sign of the times at how Brazil have fallen.

I’ve just never rated the guy full stop though. Years before we signed him I wasn’t a fan. Average player, average strike rate and with a penchant for diving. I’m personally struggling with the idea we could be heading into the season once the window’s shut with him as our first choice striker. Of the last 15+ or so years, I think he’s probably bottom three of who we’ve had, along with Soldado and Janssen (won’t include Campbell who was on loan).

As for social media, I’d like to think clubs have people in place to make players aware that they won’t always read things they’ll like and are there to support them if they choose to stay on social media and get abuse/ criticism. My personal opinion on social media is stay off it if you can’t hack criticism/ abuse anyway, there’s a lot of positives to it but a cesspit of negatives.
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yeah, you could well be right.
It’ll be interesting to see how he deals with us signing a new striker, should we do so.

If a new striker quickly climbs above him in the pecking order, personally I think he’ll want out/ a loan move. He’s not gonna want a season like last year, and certainly isn’t gonna want to sit on the bench.
 
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So here's something that isn't unbelievably irritating in retrospect: I did a little digging and found that we were linked with Bissouma when he was still at Lille, not just in the summer of 2018 (shortly before Brighton signed him) but as far back as December 2017

But no, we had to go all-out for Tanguy Ndombele...
 
Roo said:
Wasn’t able to watch the game yesterday, so caught up with MOTD highlights, which were very different to what I’d expected, based on what I’d read on social media and here.

apparently we had the majority of possession, but the footage looked like we barely touched the ball and were outplayed by Brentford.
Click to expand...
We played well until the penalty, then wobbled for a bit before coming back as the half ended.
Brentford could barely get out of their half after the break, though.
The crowd was audibly rattled and got very frustrated when their passing wasn't working.

711 passes to their 306 is telling, as is the 73% possession in the second half.
We had 8 players make more passes than their highest player, which was Collins, a centre-back.
The only real problem is that we weren't creating enough good chances.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
We played well until the penalty, then wobbled for a bit before coming back as the half ended.
Brentford could barely get out of their half after the break, though.
The crowd was audibly rattled and got very frustrated when their passing wasn't working.

711 passes to their 306 is telling, as is the 73% possession in the second half.
We had 8 players make more passes than their highest player, which was Collins, a centre-back.
The only real problem is that we weren't creating enough good chances.
Click to expand...

I do think we hesitated a bit sometimes to pull the trigger. This was the case in preseason too, we sometimes looked for one pass too many around the box. Reminded me a bit of late Wenger-era Arsenal. Hopefully it’s mainly a confidence thing, none of our front 3 are exactly in form right now, and Skipp isn’t always the most comfortable player in forward areas.

The rumours flying around do give a sense that we’re looking to address that though. Orban’s fundamentals look better than Richy’s based on what little I have seen, Eze would be tremendously expensive but gives us a great option at 8 or out wide, and names on the CB are less concrete but we clearly need another, ideally one comfortable on the left and right. Those, Bentancur coming back, and frankly just time, will hopefully show an improvement. Time is the biggest one though. We were far from perfect but would have walked off with a 2-0 history away from home if not for a soft pen and an unlucky deflection. Lots to work on but shoots of promise at this early stage.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
We played well until the penalty, then wobbled for a bit before coming back as the half ended.
Brentford could barely get out of their half after the break, though.
The crowd was audibly rattled and got very frustrated when their passing wasn't working.

711 passes to their 306 is telling, as is the 73% possession in the second half.
We had 8 players make more passes than their highest player, which was Collins, a centre-back.
The only real problem is that we weren't creating enough good chances.
Click to expand...
What didn't help was two of our front 3 having no confidence what so ever , Richarlison made some bad shooting choices as did Son and the Brentford packed defence, if we had got the lead in the second half they would have needed to go looking for an equaliser which would have opened them up
A fast direct inform striker is needed please Daniel
 
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The Huddlefro said:
I do think we hesitated a bit sometimes to pull the trigger. This was the case in preseason too, we sometimes looked for one pass too many around the box. Reminded me a bit of late Wenger-era Arsenal. Hopefully it’s mainly a confidence thing, none of our front 3 are exactly in form right now, and Skipp isn’t always the most comfortable player in forward areas.

The rumours flying around do give a sense that we’re looking to address that though. Orban’s fundamentals look better than Richy’s based on what little I have seen, Eze would be tremendously expensive but gives us a great option at 8 or out wide, and names on the CB are less concrete but we clearly need another, ideally one comfortable on the left and right. Those, Bentancur coming back, and frankly just time, will hopefully show an improvement. Time is the biggest one though. We were far from perfect but would have walked off with a 2-0 history away from home if not for a soft pen and an unlucky deflection. Lots to work on but shoots of promise at this early stage.
Click to expand...
I think that the other major factor is that Brentford parked the bus very effectively.
They're well drilled, know exactly what's required and are happy to work their arses off.
Frank got fresh legs on to stay in the game and offer a new threat, but it only half-worked.
They kept us out, but offered nothing up top as the time ran down.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
We played well until the penalty, then wobbled for a bit before coming back as the half ended.
Brentford could barely get out of their half after the break, though.
The crowd was audibly rattled and got very frustrated when their passing wasn't working.

711 passes to their 306 is telling, as is the 73% possession in the second half.
We had 8 players make more passes than their highest player, which was Collins, a centre-back.
The only real problem is that we weren't creating enough good chances.
Click to expand...

thanks, PNP. Just goes to show how highlight reels can’t be trusted.
A bit like those player highlights you see on YouTube…
 
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The Huddlefro said:
I do think we hesitated a bit sometimes to pull the trigger. This was the case in preseason too, we sometimes looked for one pass too many around the box. Reminded me a bit of late Wenger-era Arsenal. Hopefully it’s mainly a confidence thing, none of our front 3 are exactly in form right now, and Skipp isn’t always the most comfortable player in forward areas.

The rumours flying around do give a sense that we’re looking to address that though. Orban’s fundamentals look better than Richy’s based on what little I have seen, Eze would be tremendously expensive but gives us a great option at 8 or out wide, and names on the CB are less concrete but we clearly need another, ideally one comfortable on the left and right. Those, Bentancur coming back, and frankly just time, will hopefully show an improvement. Time is the biggest one though. We were far from perfect but would have walked off with a 2-0 history away from home if not for a soft pen and an unlucky deflection. Lots to work on but shoots of promise at this early stage.
Click to expand...
TBH that might be Conteball muscle memory playing a part, given how often our players were taking more touches than necessary - which is why Solomon and Lo Celso stood out, as they hadn't had that drilled into them

Likely explains the links to Eze and Brennan Johnson, too
 
Al-Rumayyans suit said:
You's are in for a long season
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It's yinz in my neck of the woods.

This is the first season I'll enjoy in a while...Inshallah and the creek don't rise, anyway. I really like a team beginning a rebuild because the ratio of hope to expectation is so high. I loved Pochettino's first, crazy year. I even enjoyed Tim Sherwood's stint for it being the early days of Kane and Eiriksen.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
I think that the other major factor is that Brentford parked the bus very effectively.
They're well drilled, know exactly what's required and are happy to work their arses off.
Frank got fresh legs on to stay in the game and offer a new threat, but it only half-worked.
They kept us out, but offered nothing up top as the time ran down.
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I really don't understand why Thomas Frank is hailed as a progressive coach, considering his tactics really don't bear this out

While Brentford aren't as married to busparquet as some teams, they are very much a counterattacking team, albeit a more direct counterattacking team than how our last three coaches set up their teams
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
I really don't understand why Thomas Frank is hailed as a progressive coach, considering his tactics really don't bear this out

While Brentford aren't as married to busparquet as some teams, they are very much a counterattacking team, albeit a more direct counterattacking team than how our last three coaches set up their teams
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I think it's more that Brentford are a progressive club, isn't it?
They've used unusual scouting methods to punch above their weight.

Frank's done a great job, but their style of play tends towards the Italian.
They've got some very explosive players and score plenty of goals, though.
Looks far better on highlights than it does watching the whole 90 minutes, in my opinion.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
I think it's more that Brentford are a progressive club, isn't it?
They've used unusual scouting methods to punch above their weight.

Frank's done a great job, but their style of play tends towards the Italian.
They've got some very explosive players and score plenty of goals, though.
Looks far better on highlights than it does watching the whole 90 minutes, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Against the teams in the top third of the PL,
that is how their play will generally be perceived
(what their loss stats are for those games is another story) .

Against the rest they are likely to get a decent number of wins.

So a system that ensures reasonable PL safety,
but not enough to have significant success unless
they get a Lesta "when the stars are right" .
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
I think it's more that Brentford are a progressive club, isn't it?
They've used unusual scouting methods to punch above their weight.

Frank's done a great job, but their style of play tends towards the Italian.
They've got some very explosive players and score plenty of goals, though.
Looks far better on highlights than it does watching the whole 90 minutes, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

IIRC they play a back 3 against possession teams and a back 4 against everyone else, so very much horses for courses. They’re not afraid to go direct though, especially when they have Toney. Nothing wrong with that.
 
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