Dr Strangelove (how I learned to stop worrying and love Boris)

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The Exile II said:
We could probably do with all the parties splitting tbh. The 'broad church' thing has now completely failed, brought on by the ever more extreme rhetoric and posturing, and both Labour and the Tories are now far more interested in total victory in their own factional wars than getting anything done.

We'd end up with both lunatic fringes sidelined, rather than running their parties which both sides have been guilty of recently. It can't be anything but a good thing.
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I’d argue that both major parties in the UK are controlled by the capitalist economic system. Too much fairness will crash our systems aka ‘confidence’ because we aren’t resilient enough to do otherwise since Brexit and the subsequent events which is a huge irony because we have less control. The challenge is that better equality in the economy better resilience. Only a small few can take the hits at this point. What we get now is no party going for anything different to equilibrium for fear of tipping the nation over, when in fact huge change is needed.
 
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FellTop said:
I havent mentioned the looney left, those arent my words. I dont even think this is about getting rid of the far left of the party. To me it appears that if you dont toe a particular party line you are not allowed in. Not the Labour party I supported or would return to support, although there are other reason for that too.
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So you don't agree it's Starmer removing Corbyn supporter's?
 
The Exile II said:
We could probably do with all the parties splitting tbh. The 'broad church' thing has now completely failed, brought on by the ever more extreme rhetoric and posturing, and both Labour and the Tories are now far more interested in total victory in their own factional wars than getting anything done.

We'd end up with both lunatic fringes sidelined, rather than running their parties which both sides have been guilty of recently. It can't be anything but a good thing.
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Maybe, but I am not so sure. The idea of a broad church, or consensus politics, to me is the best sort of politics. Through our history we have seen huge successes when this has worked well. The trick, in my opinion, is to get the right people with the right mentality doing it. Arguably it is the modern day politicians who seem unable or unwilling to take the broader view and listen to all sides of the political debate. You say lunatic fringes, I am not even sure that is a fair representation. Not everything they stand for is wrong in my opinion. Things they stand for are worth at least listening too, even if we need a strong filter. The race for the centre is all well and good, but when everybody takes that ground it becomes a bit of a beige looking choice. If we had the broad church working well we would end up with a parliament working for every person in the country I think. I know I am naieve and we are years away, but it is how I would like to see it.
 
FellTop said:
Maybe, but I am not so sure. The idea of a broad church, or consensus politics, to me is the best sort of politics. Through our history we have seen huge successes when this has worked well. The trick, in my opinion, is to get the right people with the right mentality doing it. Arguably it is the modern day politicians who seem unable or unwilling to take the broader view and listen to all sides of the political debate. You say lunatic fringes, I am not even sure that is a fair representation. Not everything they stand for is wrong in my opinion. Things they stand for are worth at least listening too, even if we need a strong filter. The race for the centre is all well and good, but when everybody takes that ground it becomes a bit of a beige looking choice. If we had the broad church working well we would end up with a parliament working for every person in the country I think. I know I am naieve and we are years away, but it is how I would like to see it.
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I consider both lunatic fringes to be little more than conspiracy theorists and cult members in rosettes these days. It's changed from even the likes of the militant tendency. They're completely detached from reality now. The broad church only now exists in the centre.
 
"The Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, has been invited to the UK on an official visit in late autumn, the first such visit by the heir to the Saudi throne since he was accused of masterminding the killing of Jamal Khashoggi, the Washington Post columnist and dissident."
Fri 14th Jul 2023

SINGAPORE, July 13th (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia imported record volumes of discounted Russian fuel oil in June, a near 10-fold annual increase to meet summer power generation demand and maintain crude exports despite OPEC+ production cuts, according to traders, analysts and Kpler data.

For Russia, its growing oil trade with the world's biggest exporter enables it to keep output flowing to global buyers despite Western sanctions that have shut its access to key markets including Europe.
 
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I see the HS2 chief has resigned. The 7th leader of this project is now in the hotseat. £600k a year job by all accounts.

Honestly, why are we chucking good money after bad on this idiotic project. Will either of Sunak or Starmer sack it off? Appatently not. Starmer wants to build the whole bloody thing in full. It is the most expensive capital project in Europe. The most expensive railway on a cost per mile basis. It isnt what the public want. Yet politicians blindly keep putting taxpayer money into the project.

On the flip side I see no sensible economic plan for education or the NHS from either party. Same with social care. Imagine, if we had politicians who had the good sense to see the value in investing in a young childs education over a marginally faster train service. I do get the difference between capital and revenue costs, and that is a tension on pay budgets. I am sure though we could ditch HS2 today and build better primary school and secondary school infrastruture in the next 5 years that would make a staggering difference to this country.
 
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FellTop said:
I see the HS2 chief has resigned. The 7th leader of this project is now in the hotseat. £600k a year job by all accounts.

Honestly, why are we chucking good money after bad on this idiotic project. Will either of Sunak or Starmer sack it off? Appatently not. Starmer wants to build the whole bloody thing in full. It is the most expensive capital project in Europe. The most expensive railway on a cost per mile basis. It isnt what the public want. Yet politicians blindly keep putting taxpayer money into the project.

On the flip side I see no sensible economic plan for education or the NHS from either party. Same with social care. Imagine, if we had politicians who had the good sense to see the value in investing in a young childs education over a marginally faster train service. I do get the difference between capital and revenue costs, and that is a tension on pay budgets. I am sure though we could ditch HS2 today and build better primary school and secondary school infrastruture in the next 5 years that would make a staggering difference to this country.
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Our existing rail service is expensive and shambolic ...

... HS2 would be like putting a revolving rooftop dining room on McDonald's <doh>
 
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Smug in Boots said:
Our existing rail service is expensive and shambolic ...

... HS2 would be like putting a revolving rooftop dining room on McDonald's <doh>
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It would have required too much common sense to spend the money on the existing infrastructure and make what we already have work. Better to build shiny new things, that will be shiny for a year before no bugger keeps spending on the polish needed to keep it shiny.
 
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The Exile II said:
Johnson's pin number confirmed from government records.

I know it looks like there should be a punchline there.

Another nothing story that's got the usual suspects dancing.
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Johnson right now after getting expert technical advice from former Secretary of State for Digital, Nadine Dorries

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Smug in Boots said:
Meanwhile ...

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/07/14/the-fastest-train-in-europe-will-make-you-want-to-quit-continental-flights-forever
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I have travelled loads for work over the years. Nearly every journey in this country I went in my car. Would drive 350 miles rather than use a train. Anything into Europe was a plane. I find trains fundamentally unreliable and you might well end up sitting an annoying bugger. They would have to be much faster, and much cheaper, for me to be remotely interested in getting out of my car or off the plane.
 
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Daz said:
Johnson right now after getting expert technical advice from former Secretary of State for Digital, Nadine Dorries

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Fri 14th Jul, 2023 17.32

"Boris Johnson should know that there is a stall on Bury indoor market that will unlock any phone for a small fee. It is the same market that Rishi Sunak visited at local election time. He stood under a sign saying “Welcome to Bury market”, and said how great it was to visit Burnley market. These folk really do need to get out more" <laugh>
 
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FellTop said:
I have travelled loads for work over the years. Nearly every journey in this country I went in my car. Would drive 350 miles rather than use a train. Anything into Europe was a plane. I find trains fundamentally unreliable and you might well end up sitting an annoying bugger. They would have to be much faster, and much cheaper, for me to be remotely interested in getting out of my car or off the plane.
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The problem with our railways is the fact, that in the main they were built more than 150 years ago, and expansion of the existing network is extremely limited on any main line.

Taking into account that most are privatised, l would very much doubt there will be any enthusiasm for expansion without guarantees of profit. So we have a stalemate.

I certainly agree that money should be spent elsewhere, but is government ( taxpayers) money. This government is not spending money on future growth, only their own pockets I'm afraid.
 
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Looks like Johnson has done nothing this weekend then.

Ben Wallace on his way. One of the few to come out of recent years with anything in the plus column. Giving the forces a percent less than everyone else because they can't strike will backfire over the next year or two though.
 
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Government to 'clamp down' on poor quality degrees.

Caps to be imposed on courses with high dropout rates or low levels of graduates getting professional jobs.

Not a bad idea I think. We've spent thirty years telling kids the only way to get on is with a degree and a lot of them end up with a worthless piece of paper, masses of student debt, and three years behind their peers entering the workplace. And we've also got very few kids doing practical ( and often more financially rewarding)jobs like plumbing.

We've got to get apprenticeships going at the same time as cutting these courses though.
 
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The Exile II said:
Government to 'clamp down' on poor quality degrees.

Caps to be imposed on courses with high dropout rates or low levels of graduates getting professional jobs.

Not a bad idea I think. We've spent thirty years telling kids the only way to get on is with a degree and a lot of them end up with a worthless piece of paper, masses of student debt, and three years behind their peers entering the workplace. And we've also got very few kids doing practical ( and often more financially rewarding)jobs like plumbing.

We've got to get apprenticeships going at the same time as cutting these courses though.
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Does that mean my matés daughters degree in 60s pop music is worthless now<doh>
 
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The Exile II said:
Government to 'clamp down' on poor quality degrees.

Caps to be imposed on courses with high dropout rates or low levels of graduates getting professional jobs.

Not a bad idea I think. We've spent thirty years telling kids the only way to get on is with a degree and a lot of them end up with a worthless piece of paper, masses of student debt, and three years behind their peers entering the workplace. And we've also got very few kids doing practical ( and often more financially rewarding)jobs like plumbing.

We've got to get apprenticeships going at the same time as cutting these courses though.
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It is 100% the right idea in my opinion. Some of the degress offered are daft with little prospect of jobs in that field. This has to be married to a highly effective technical education route, including apprenticeships. Degree apprenticeships are a brilliant route, a real success of the government, we just need a lot more of it and a curriculum that values it
 
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