Dr Strangelove (how I learned to stop worrying and love Boris)

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Smug in Boots said:
It would be hypocritical if this person was found guilty, as Raab has, and not dealt with.

It would be strange if Raab wasn't attacked by the opposition.

Bad eggs in any party need to be dealt with ...

... but surely their presence can't preclude that party speaking about certain subjects.

Raab was found guilty by an independent KC so surely it's a justified attack.
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Even then, it wouldn't be hypocritical. There's a huge difference between punching up and punching down in my opinion. Dominic Raab has been found guilty of intimidating his subordinates. That's absolutely worse than calling a member of the government "scum" or using "attack ads" against your rivals, who always use them too.

One is a fair fight. One is speaking back to power. The other is bullying people who can't really fight back in that environment.
 
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Flash Gordon said:
Even then, it wouldn't be hypocritical. There's a huge difference between punching up and punching down in my opinion. Dominic Raab has been found guilty of intimidating his subordinates. That's absolutely worse than calling a member of the government "scum" or using "attack ads" against your rivals, who always use them too.

One is a fair fight. One is speaking back to power. The other is bullying people who can't really fight back in that environment.
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People like Raab use the very power they have been given to bully and intimidate people. That is exactly why Raab's power should be taken away. He probably wouldn't dare say the things he said to those people without that power. Bet he was a "***" at Eton <laugh>
 
Flash Gordon said:
Even then, it wouldn't be hypocritical. There's a huge difference between punching up and punching down in my opinion. Dominic Raab has been found guilty of intimidating his subordinates. That's absolutely worse than calling a member of the government "scum" or using "attack ads" against your rivals, who always use them too.

One is a fair fight. One is speaking back to power. The other is bullying people who can't really fight back in that environment.
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Best summary yet! <ok>
 
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Flash Gordon said:
Even then, it wouldn't be hypocritical. There's a huge difference between punching up and punching down in my opinion. Dominic Raab has been found guilty of intimidating his subordinates. That's absolutely worse than calling a member of the government "scum" or using "attack ads" against your rivals, who always use them too.

One is a fair fight. One is speaking back to power. The other is bullying people who can't really fight back in that environment.
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Not my argument but I believe the point was that Gordon Brown, who is assisting the Labour campaign, was subject to allegations of bullying just like Raab has been. Nothing to do with Rayner.
 
The Norton Cat said:
Not my argument but I believe the point was that Gordon Brown, who is assisting the Labour campaign, was subject to allegations of bullying just like Raab has been. Nothing to do with Rayner.
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There always has been, and always will be, allegations of bullying, Churchill wasn't exactly shy ...

... but a million other examples don't excuse Raab.

In his post-resignation interview he didn't seem to see any irony in being aggressive and arrogant in his tone <laugh>
 
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Smug in Boots said:
There always has been, and always will be, allegations of bullying, Churchill wasn't exactly shy ...

... but a million other examples don't excuse Raab.

In his post-resignation interview he didn't seem to see any irony in being aggressive and arrogant in his tone <laugh>
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I have no particular opinion on Raab and I'm certainly not excusing him. I was just clarifying some points in someone else post that appeared to have been missed.
 
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The Norton Cat said:
Not my argument but I believe the point was that Gordon Brown, who is assisting the Labour campaign, was subject to allegations of bullying just like Raab has been. Nothing to do with Rayner.
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This was predominantly my point. I find Labour going so hard on things they have been historically accused of, in the not too distant past, quite hypocritical. I dont like Raab, and I dont like his resignation letter. I have said so on this thread. But for me with Labour is a case of people in glass houses. Just my opinion, but I stand by it.

For the record I am not refusing to vote Labour because of what they did 12 years ago. Although what Blair did should not be forgotten in my opinion. I am choosing not to vote Labour now because they dont appear to be a party ready or fit to govern. You just have to listen to them. The fact they are not the tories isnt enough of an argument for me. People can think it is for them, that is their choice. Mine is to want something better than either the tories or the labour party are selling. I said yesterday I though Streeting said some good things about the NHS. Hopefully we hear more things from Labour in the build up, as always I will listen with interest.
 
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FellTop said:
This was predominantly my point. I find Labour going so hard on things they have been historically accused of, in the not too distant past, quite hypocritical. I dont like Raab, and I dont like his resignation letter. I have said so on this thread. But for me with Labour is a case of people in glass houses. Just my opinion, but I stand by it.

For the record I am not refusing to vote Labour because of what they did 12 years ago. Although what Blair did should not be forgotten in my opinion. I am choosing not to vote Labour now because they dont appear to be a party ready or fit to govern. You just have to listen to them. The fact they are not the tories isnt enough of an argument for me. People can think it is for them, that is their choice. Mine is to want something better than either the tories or the labour party are selling. I said yesterday I though Streeting said some good things about the NHS. Hopefully we hear more things from Labour in the build up, as always I will listen with interest.
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Or you are a dyed blue con? Acting as an agent provocateur?

The idea that Rabids bullying and his behaviour was necessary to drive performance can be refuted by the absence of a single substantive achievement in 7 years as a minister and 5 in cabinet.


He was a failure as Brexit Secretary; oversaw the Afghanistan disaster at the Foreign Office; and put forward a garbage human rights Bill that has gone nowhere as Justice Secretary while the court system has crumbled. No high performance culture discernable.

Same for Truss. Same for Patel. Patel, bullied staff and failed more than most. Even against a low bar.
 
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Sunderpitt said:
Or you are a dyed blue con? Acting as an agent provocateur?

The idea that Rabids bullying and his behaviour was necessary to drive performance can be refuted by the absence of a single substantive achievement in 7 years as a minister and 5 in cabinet.


He was a failure as Brexit Secretary; oversaw the Afghanistan disaster at the Foreign Office; and put forward a garbage human rights Bill that has gone nowhere as Justice Secretary while the court system has crumbled. No high performance culture discernable.

Same for Truss. Same for Patel. Patel, bullied staff and failed more than most. Even against a low bar.
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I agree with everything you say about Raab.

The idea that if I challenge labour I am a tory is everything that is wrong with todays politics. I am neither, and proud to be so. I think some think they must follow a politcal party like they follow a football team. Except they seem to question and moan about their team more than they do their political party. I will vote for who I think will do best for the next generation.
 
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FellTop said:
I agree with everything you say about Raab.

The idea that if I challenge labour I am a tory is everything that is wrong with todays politics. I am neither, and proud to be so. I think some think they must follow a politcal party like they follow a football team. Except they seem to question and moan about their team more than they do their political party. I will vote for who I think will do best for the next generation.
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How many choices do you have however.

Unfortunately we have (virtually) a 2 party system in the UK similar (almost) to the USA.

Thus when we see a corrupt and incompetent government we have, in reality, only one serious alternative.
Again unfortunately a vote for the minor third party becomes a lost/wasted vote and enabling the continuation of a horrid and despicable governing party.
If only we could ‘manufacture’ more parties with other priorities (as is in Scandinavia) which leads to cooperation between 2/3/4 parties finding common central ground which automatically, through necessity, leaves the more fanatical extremes of each party out in the cold.
Ah well it will not happen in the UK in the forseeable future. :emoticon-0145-shake
 
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safc-noggieland said:
How many choices do you have however.

Unfortunately we have (virtually) a 2 party system in the UK similar (almost) to the USA.

Thus when we see a corrupt and incompetent government we have, in reality, only one serious alternative.
Again unfortunately a vote for the minor third party becomes a lost/wasted vote and enabling the continuation of a horrid and despicable governing party.
If only we could ‘manufacture’ more parties with other priorities (as is in Scandinavia) which leads to cooperation between 2/3/4 parties finding common central ground which automatically, through necessity, leaves the more fanatical extremes of each party out in the cold.
Ah well it will not happen in the UK in the forseeable future. :emoticon-0145-shake
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A loss of the 2 party system would be the best thing that couls happen in my opinion mate. We agree on that :emoticon-0150-hands
 
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Flash Gordon said:
Even then, it wouldn't be hypocritical. There's a huge difference between punching up and punching down in my opinion. Dominic Raab has been found guilty of intimidating his subordinates. That's absolutely worse than calling a member of the government "scum" or using "attack ads" against your rivals, who always use them too.

One is a fair fight. One is speaking back to power. The other is bullying people who can't really fight back in that environment.
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This. More absolute proof that sunak has changed nothing. His latter back was a disgrace too.

Not be long and this mob will all be booted out of office
 
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Jacob Rees-Mogg has dismissed a report that found Dominic Raab had bullied staff as a "veritable blizzard of snowflakes".

Just confirming he’s an arsehole too…and essentially saying Raabs behaviour is accepted within the party so more MP’s will be doing the same.

Sunak should have told them all to keep their ****ing mouth shut on the matter…although I reckon they would take no notice of the wet lettuce anyway.
 
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Daz said:
Jacob Rees-Mogg has dismissed a report that found Dominic Raab had bullied staff as a "veritable blizzard of snowflakes".

Just confirming he’s an arsehole too…and essentially saying Raabs behaviour is accepted within the party so more MP’s will be doing the same.

Sunak should have told them all to keep their ****ing mouth shut on the matter…although I reckon they would take no notice of the wet lettuce anyway.
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Ah yes, the well known "hard man" Jacob Rees Mogg, who needed half of West Midlands police force to protect him from protestors at the Tory Party conference.
 

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rooch 3 said:
And not long after they will be booted out of office, and so on and so on and so on Yawn.
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Rooch listen to yourself - please. Your post sounds exactly like the negative sh:t SAFC supporters used to say.
‘’ ah well this is S/land all over.‘’ from a few seasons ago.
But look at us now. whether we get a top 6 place or not the positivity on this board is outstanding and heartwarming.
Take this positivity into politics give someone else a chance without ‘’they are all sh:t’’
For heavens sake l would vote formy wife & cat in the hope of a better leadership than this lot.
I cannot give up - l must have hope whether it is football, politics or the lottery <cheers>
 
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Row 3 said:
And so the political wheel turns. Both sides become jaded when in power for an extended period. The country was crying out for change in 1997, again in 2010, and again now.
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And are we really any better off after any long period of power? It never seems so to me. Irrespective of whoever the side is, they seem to drag themselves down after a long period. As the saying goes, elections arent won, they are lost. I find that bloody miserable and would love to see some real political change in this country.
 
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