You will need to ask hbic. His suggestion that someone above might be enforcing lo celso and ndombele into one team. If that is the case, rather than hoping the rich clubs are going to buy one of the two or both, just have the person above to stop doing it
Roberto De Zerbi & Johan Lange Watch
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You will need to ask hbic. His suggestion that someone above might be enforcing lo celso and ndombele into one team. If that is the case, rather than hoping the rich clubs are going to buy one of the two or both, just have the person above to stop doing it
And he hasn't been given a sustained run because he's not been good enough. Managers at this level can't afford to persist with players that don't regularly perform. I've already said that I think Levy is pressuring managers to play them both, he shelled out £100m on the pair and probably doesn't want to accept they're duds but we're reaching a stage where just like Dele, the more they play the further their value drops due to poor performances.
All of those duos you listed have one thing in common; they were all good players regardless of their partner and so when together were brilliant, Winks isn't a good player and thus won't be brilliant or even good alongside someone else. You need to be a good player before thinking about who the best partner is for them.
Aurier, Rose, Ndombele all had criticism and harsh treatment from Jose, Bale did too. Dele wasn't alone, it was just blown up by fans and media because he's an English player and former golden boy who only 'til recently still had a cult following of Spurs fans that wouldn't hear a bad word about him.
The abuse was disgusting but wasn't and likely isn't a factor in his poor finishing. Technically Bergwijn just doesn't seem to hit the ball right at crucial moments, often favouring to whack it with little accuracy which goes wide or right at the keeper. If you even look at ones he's scored - Volley vs City, whacked it against Utd where the keeper should've done better, tap in vs Wolves and whacked it against Villa. 3 of his 4 Spurs goals don't signal a calm and cool finisher but more someone who just hit and hopes, looks nice when it goes in but the fact it's gone in very few times tells it needs some work.
There's different factors for different players. Ability is a huge issue for some as they're simply not good enough, confidence is another as is mentality. Ndombele's issues isn't confidence or even ability, it's down to being a fat lazy prick with little or no desire to ever reach his potential, easily one of the poorest professionals we've had at this football club.
I think most of us believe Levy's done that to be honest. Spurs spending almost £100m on a duo of players who struggle to get into the team will have the chairman asking questions or making demands to get use out of them.
The Amazon Doc showed him getting involved with Ndombele at the end of the 19/20 season anyway, the Frenchman wanted out and Levy convinced him to stay. Rumours then circulated he had a word with Jose and then Ndombele was in Jose's teams again the following season.
Also blocked Dele's departure to PSG when Jose, Dele and PSG wanted it to happen. That decision has bitten him hard too as Dele's value (and likely interest) has further plummeted.
Mourinho was on record of joining us because he wanted to work with the group of players we had. If I had been Levy I would have gone into detail on which players he didn't rate. If he changed his mind later he deserved to be sacked. I know of no other enterprise where a manager coming in could tell his prospective employer that he was happy with £200m of assets then a few months later want them replaced at a huge loss
No manager is going to go into a club and say “I bloody hate the players” though are? They’re always going to say they’re excited to work with what’s there but everyone always wants their own personnel in the end as well as getting rid of those they deem unnecessary.
He probably also didn’t expect so many to be so bad as well. It’s only when you’ve had significant time with them that it becomes obvious.
The thing is that Lo Celso has performed better than several midfielders in the past eighteen months, long story short put Ndombele, Sissoko, Winks and Dele in a bag and hit it with a stick and you'll likely hit somebody who performed worse than Lo Celso, and yet they get chance after chance and Lo Celso doesn't - which particularly stands out with Ndombele because every single time he's given a platform to perform he does about as well with it as Doherty does, the difference being at least Doherty is in a rotated side not a first choice one when he ****s the bed
That's why I said it wasn't about Winks per se, it was about how I don't believe it's possible to have a balanced midfield pivot with any of the players we have available, which is why singling out Winks simply doesn't make sense at this point when I doubt you could put 50% of those mentioned pivots in the current side and have a balanced midfield, for example Parker/Hojbjerg would have similar issues to the current Skipp/Hojbjerg pairing as it would lack that extra bit of dynamism, while Sandro/Ndombele would likely see Sandro injured every other game with him having to do double duty all game long
Dele's getting shat on was blown up because it was ****ing ridiculous, best exemplified by the response to conceding a goal to Stoke being planted on Dele and not the four players who could have won the ball back in the 20+ seconds after Dele lost it but failed to do so. It's like that clip that did the rounds a couple of seasons ago to slag off somebody (if in doubt, assume Winks) for not tracking back when we conceded against Wolves, when in reality what it showed was, with the exception of Lamela and (IIRC) Lo Celso, the rest of our players were strolling back into possession, meaning it was a damning indictment of our entire back four and Sissoko, but since none of them barring Dier were our lightning rods at the time they don't get singled out
Ndombele is a confidence player, much like Dele etc are, the difference is his confidence is clearly misplaced which is why he believes that if he has to leave it means he's off to Barca, Los Ladrones or Bayern when in reality he's more likely to be involved in a cash + player deal to Sevilla, Villarreal, or Leverkusen. Now don't get me wrong, I honestly believe that Ndombele would be immense in the Bundesliga because his style of play is so direct he could fit in there, but the only reason he'd be playing for Leverkusen is because we went all-out to sign Florian Wirtz (or, at a push, Patrik Schick) and needed somebody to split the difference in the transfer fee rather than Leverkusen thinking he was a potential worldbeater at this point
In terms of the lightning rods getting slagged off at every opportunity, while others get spared the wrath even when they **** the bed, I'll repeat what WindyCOYS said over on Reddit after somebody posted a supercut of Dele against Mura to get some of that "Look at Dele, he's ****ING ****" karma from the MouAnon weirdos that still exist over there, when in reality what it mostly shows is Kane or especially Doherty misplacing passes to him, and weirdest of all criticising him for pressuring their defenders into sending passes straight to our back four (which is literally what he's supposed to be doing)
I mean this is objectively a pretty good performance. Creative running off the ball, effective pressing of the ball and blocking of passing lanes (often resulting in us winning the ball back), good passing and moving, good chasing back. There's a very bad attempted creative pass with his left foot, but other than that there's not a lot to moan about.
People were angry at the performance, it's perceived that we should be thrashing Mura, even with our B Team (plus Kane), and Dele is emblematic of our decline from the last nine months of Pochettino to here. As the team has played badly, Dele has struggled to be as effective too (due to positional change, injuries, managerial changes, loss of confidence, etc). And because that's gone on so long, people see his own decline as a cause of the team's poor performance rather than a symptom of it.
There *were* some really poor performers in that Mura game IMO - Kane, Sanchez, Doherty, Gil, probably some others too - but the same old scapegoats (Dele and Ndombele) were grouped with them because it suits the narrative of the detractors. I got into a disagreement at the time of the match in one of my WhatsApp groups for saying Ndombele had played well. I just watched all his involvements and, sure there were (literally a couple) of wayward passes, but generally good pressing, genuinely excellent press resistance, sensible passing, some dribbles and a couple of bits of creativity (dribbling/passing) that literally no other player in our team would be able to do. If his exquisite pass to Gil had been finished, people would have been speaking about his game *totally* differently.
We all have our favourite players that we want to see come good, and we all also give different value to different actions on the pitch (in my opinion progressing passing and dribbling that don't necessarily create shots are massively undervalued by fans), but Dele and Ndombele (and Lo Celso) are IMO currently held to a different standard to our other players by the bulk of the fanbase for whatever reason.
My view is: let's see what happens with them all now that we have a proper coach. A coach who works with individuals to improve their games whilst also setting up the team to actually have the ball. This should suit all of them, though they'll obviously need to learn what he wants from them (like all of our players). If, by the end of the season, they are not fitting in, then it is time to sell them because we need players that Conte trusts and that add value to his system. But this 'scorch the earth and start again' will that fans have due to their own frustrations of how the last x years have gone is so wayward.
I mean this is objectively a pretty good performance. Creative running off the ball, effective pressing of the ball and blocking of passing lanes (often resulting in us winning the ball back), good passing and moving, good chasing back. There's a very bad attempted creative pass with his left foot, but other than that there's not a lot to moan about.
People were angry at the performance, it's perceived that we should be thrashing Mura, even with our B Team (plus Kane), and Dele is emblematic of our decline from the last nine months of Pochettino to here. As the team has played badly, Dele has struggled to be as effective too (due to positional change, injuries, managerial changes, loss of confidence, etc). And because that's gone on so long, people see his own decline as a cause of the team's poor performance rather than a symptom of it.
There *were* some really poor performers in that Mura game IMO - Kane, Sanchez, Doherty, Gil, probably some others too - but the same old scapegoats (Dele and Ndombele) were grouped with them because it suits the narrative of the detractors. I got into a disagreement at the time of the match in one of my WhatsApp groups for saying Ndombele had played well. I just watched all his involvements and, sure there were (literally a couple) of wayward passes, but generally good pressing, genuinely excellent press resistance, sensible passing, some dribbles and a couple of bits of creativity (dribbling/passing) that literally no other player in our team would be able to do. If his exquisite pass to Gil had been finished, people would have been speaking about his game *totally* differently.
We all have our favourite players that we want to see come good, and we all also give different value to different actions on the pitch (in my opinion progressing passing and dribbling that don't necessarily create shots are massively undervalued by fans), but Dele and Ndombele (and Lo Celso) are IMO currently held to a different standard to our other players by the bulk of the fanbase for whatever reason.
My view is: let's see what happens with them all now that we have a proper coach. A coach who works with individuals to improve their games whilst also setting up the team to actually have the ball. This should suit all of them, though they'll obviously need to learn what he wants from them (like all of our players). If, by the end of the season, they are not fitting in, then it is time to sell them because we need players that Conte trusts and that add value to his system. But this 'scorch the earth and start again' will that fans have due to their own frustrations of how the last x years have gone is so wayward.
The idea fans ought to be patient and supportive has never been less popular. The Pittsburgh Steelers have had 3 head coaches in 52 years. Of course, they are absolutely putrid today, and look on the way to giving Tomlin his first losing season...
What really gets me is they come up with the sort of conspiracy theories that Laurence Fox might find a little far-fetched
Case in point, after the Mura game I saw one of them tweet (with a depressingly large number of people agreeing in the replies) about how Poch never wanted Ndombele, Lo Celso or Sessegnon, in other words we've reached the point where any player the fanbase turns on is obviously a Levy and/or Hitchen signing because our managers want to sign better players...which ignores that Poch chased Ndombele and Sessegnon for a couple of years each
Obviously there are Levy and/or Hitchen signings, for example Rodon was brought in after after Hitchen had agreed personal terms with Skriniar but Inter refused to budge from their pre-pandemic asking price meaning we ended up with a depth signing rather than a first team signing, but when literally any player our fanbase has the hump with that week is blamed on Levy/Hitchen and not the manager is when we have a problem almost as big as SpursWeb losing clicks to to Alasdair Gold, Dan Kilpatrick and Lilywhite Rose and having to turn into an anti-Levy blog once or twice a month to try and get the numbers back up
And I say lo Celso hasn't been given a sustained run because he hasn't had a sustained period of availability.
The problem is that Spurs raised their profile enough to attract new and newish fans like me, who as a group are horses***.
He hasn't performed better than Hojbjerg, Skipp's already put in more impressive performances this season than he has in over two years, he's been on a par with Ndombele (and I'm being kind there) and so that leaves needing to be better than Dele, Winks and Sissoko which really should be a bare minimum. Worth pointing out though that his perceived lack of chances in comparison to others stems from being made of glass. Even now if it weren't for the snow he would've missed three of Conte's five games in charge, Transfermarkt says he's missed 41 games for us since joining, which in roughly 2 and a half seasons will probably equate to about 35-40% of our games.
Winks is singled out because he's evidently a poor player, just about everyone knows it, Spurs and non-Spurs, it's that simple. It won't matter who he's partnered with, he'll stick out like a sore thumb and everyone would talk about how the other player would need an upgrade alongside them to avoid carrying him. When he plays we're poorer for it, just as we are with the likes of Doherty and Dele etc.
It was actually arguably the best thing Jose done here because it almost got Dele out the club but our chairman ballsed it up. Let's see how easy it is now to get rid of him after he's now failed to impress under Poch (from late 2018), Jose, Nuno, Mason and Conte. I highly doubt PSG come calling again, unless Poch really does love us.
Ndombele's confidence isn't what's causing him to be so crap though, it's that on 50 minutes he's blowing out his arse and is tiring beforehand. I mean I guess it's an improvement on the 30 minutes 12 or so months ago... yay for us.
Well if I was paying someone millions of pounds per year on the basis they could improve my team, I would expect them to deliver on what they promised.
As for loaning out Dele....there wasn't any point. It didn't free up a space in the squad we could have filled so just reduced our depth. Exactly the sort of daft decision I would hope my boss vetoed if I was ever stupid enough to suggest it.
Sometimes players are loaned out because they are a bad influence in the dressing room or to give them a fresh start and chance to sort themselves out.
Watch 50 new manager interviews and most will say what Jose said just with altered wording. Every manager will also believe they can improve a team but it’s telling that Poch (since 2019), Jose, Nuno struggled to do so and whilst early on, Conte’s hardly having much luck either.
When the quality of player is so bad it can't even be counted as depth, because a youth player would've likely contributed more. Keeping Dele proved to be a great decision though, didn't it? That wasn't daft at all. That loan to PSG could've given him a much needed boost, especially as it's a poorer league yet he'd be playing with better players and a manager who once got him playing great football, he could've then joined PSG permanently or elsewhere for a nice fee that we could've reinvested. But no, that would've been stupid to allow that and keeping him here, letting him churn out even more shockers has absolutely proven to be the right decision. Just one of many great ones this club has made over the last few years.
On the bad influence factor, after he was hauled off against Zagreb when we got dumped out the Europa, Lloris said that some players basically weren’t pulling their weight and many speculated Dele being one of them - and it was pretty obvious he was one too.
Just another reason why it was great blocking that PSG move
So you would rather pay millions in wages on a player to make your squad worse?
Even companies have reduduncies for really poorly performing workers.
Not sure how long is left but by the time deles contract ends, i reckon you would have forked out more in wages than any transfer (if you get any at all) returned.
Thats before you look at performance whereby he has contributed absolutely nothing except humiliation in the european equivalent of the efl trophy
He sets a poor example to other players in the team and we could at least get some of his wages off the books. In addition, he might get his mojo back elsewhere so that we get an improved player returning to us or increases his current sell-on value. By not playing at all, he's not in the shop window whilst costing us money in wages.
The loan was a win win
Dele left and improved - we win
Dele left and remained **** - point proven, we win, sell him
Hanging about has just got deluded fans thinking yeh but maybe he might be that player we saw him become and got them blaming manager after manager instead for the players lack of commitment.
Levy knows **** all about football.
Dele left and improved - we win
Dele left and remained **** - point proven, we win, sell him
Hanging about has just got deluded fans thinking yeh but maybe he might be that player we saw him become and got them blaming manager after manager instead for the players lack of commitment.
Levy knows **** all about football.