Defending narrow leads ...

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Smug in Boots

Smug in Boots

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Jan 27, 2011
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... in the last 15 minutes.

This seems to happen to us quite regularly and keeping us in front obviously means the difference between one point or three. I, as much as anyone, sit there thinking 'don't get pushed back Sunderland ffs' but it seems we always do.

So I started watching what other teams do, in the PL etc, and it doesn't appear to be 'our thing' after all.

Teams seem to 'manage' a tactical withdrawal and rejig the defence to cope with it. The opposition almost inevitably start to throw in increasingly lengthy crosses as the minutes tick by.

It's frustrating for us but I think we're going to have to learn to live with it
...

... am I being naive or is this what we should expect.
 
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I don't like the idea of backing off and protecting our lead by packing the defence. We've gained the lead by outplaying the opposition, pressing high, passing them out of the game. To my mind the best way to see out the game is to continue as we started, take the game to them, keep it in their half and keep as much possession as possible, as far away from our goal as possible.
That will at least reduce the chances of me suffering palpitations late in the game!
 
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Smug in Boots said:
... on the last 15 minutes.

This seems to happen to us quite regularly and keeping us in front obviously means the difference between one point or three. I, as much as anyone, sit there thinking 'don't get pushed back Sunderland ffs' but it seems we always do.

So I started watching what other teams do, in the PL etc, and it doesn't appear to be 'our thing' after all.

Teams seem to 'manage' a tactical withdrawal and rejig the defence to cope with it. The opposition almost inevitably start to throw is increasingly lengthy crosses as the minutes tick by.

It's frustrating for us but I think we're going to have to learn to live with it
...

... am I being naive or is this what we should expect.
Click to expand...

I think we're going to have to get used to it....as much as I dislike it....because it's the way LJ likes to do it. He seems to think bringing Wright on to add a bit of experience is the thing to do.As you say,it concedes ground and invites pressure. Often,we seem to start it with quite a long time still to go.... we were at it in the match at Milton Keynes a good 15 minutes before the end of normal time,which then becomes 20 mins if the added time runs to par. I thought it was risky on Saturday,as they had one or two bits of possession in and around our box at the end of the match,which,given the propensity some of these players have to get touched and tumble to the floor...and also the often very poor refereeing...I could just see us giving away a pen at the end. My heart was in my mouth.
Mind you,having said all that,in both those matches we should have been well ahead,but protecting a one goal lead in this way gives me the jitters.
 
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I think there's a time and place for these tactics. When you're the top team in the league both in terms of players and league position, I don't think it's neccessary that we sit back and defend to close every game out.
 
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No right way in doing it. You continue looking for a 2 goal cushion and concede an equaliser you always get a fair proportion questioning why we didnt defend more. A team who are **** hot at a pacey counter attack will be more successful at sitting deep with a 1 goal lead. However I think a manager/team should be able to judge their approach based on the opposition in front of them.
 
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Mr 55p said:
No right way in doing it. You continue looking for a 2 goal cushion and concede an equaliser you always get a fair proportion questioning why we didnt defend more. A team who are **** hot at a pacey counter attack will be more successful at sitting deep with a 1 goal lead. However I think a manager/team should be able to judge their approach based on the opposition in front of them.
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Somebody like Diamond maybe.
 
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Saff said:
I think there's a time and place for these tactics. When you're the top team in the league both in terms of players and league position, I don't think it's neccessary that we sit back and defend to close every game out.
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Agree. It depends on how the match has travelled.In the past,the opposition have had a dangerous forward or two who've caused us problems,and the sides have been fairly evenly matched,it may be right to tighten up and defend a narrow lead. However, on Saturday for example,we were better in every department than the opposition and they never looked like levelling the match. I think we should just keep pressing in those circumstances,because the only way they're going to get anything is if we make a silly mistake at the back.
 
sad-eyed prophet said:
Have a look at Broadhead or the other German lad...both have pace....to try to pin them back in their own half,much less risky.
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You'd think that but, having watched this situation, with other teams, it seems the norm to defend a lead from deep.

I suppose it's because the team chasing an equaliser has nothing to lose so can commit everyone forward. That put the defending team in a quandary because they have everything to lose if they keep players up the pitch. As time goes on the attacking team becomes increasingly reckless, even sending up their keeper on occasion.

I'd love to hear Johnson talk about it tbh.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
You'd think that but, having watched this situation, with other teams, it seems the norm to defend a lead from deep.

I suppose it's because the team chasing an equaliser has nothing to lose so can commit everyone forward. That put the defending team in a quandary because they have everything to lose if they keep players up the pitch. As time goes on the attacking team becomes increasingly reckless, even sending up their keeper on occasion.

I'd love to hear Johnson talk about it tbh.
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:emoticon-0102-bigsm I'm sure the theory of game management in the closing minutes of a match will have a chapter in his coaching manual somewhere!
As someone else said earlier on,if we've been the better side throughout and are ahead by playing a certain way for 80+ minutes,why not just carry on in the same vein.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
... on the last 15 minutes.

This seems to happen to us quite regularly and keeping us in front obviously means the difference between one point or three. I, as much as anyone, sit there thinking 'don't get pushed back Sunderland ffs' but it seems we always do.

So I started watching what other teams do, in the PL etc, and it doesn't appear to be 'our thing' after all.

Teams seem to 'manage' a tactical withdrawal and rejig the defence to cope with it. The opposition almost inevitably start to throw is increasingly lengthy crosses as the minutes tick by.

It's frustrating for us but I think we're going to have to learn to live with it
...

... am I being naive or is this what we should expect.
Click to expand...

To be honest I am not a great fan of this - partly because it seems to take years off my life and does nothing for my blood pressure. It is hard to argue that it hasn't worked but it would only take a lucky deflection etc for it to go wrong. I feel we are conceding to much of the pitch, too early and giving teams time to get up a head of steam. Not a dig at McGeady but this is more noticeable when he was left on for 90 minutes (I accept this is unusual). Perhaps Evans to sit in front of defence might be a better option
 
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It's a perfectly acceptable tactic which shows confidence in our ability to manage a game. It also has the benefit of allowing us to hit on the break if the opportunity arises. Scares the bloke sitting behind me to death but I'm quite happy with it. Out of 46 games if were' ahead in in 30 of them and concede an equaliser late on in, say 8 we lose 16 points. If we continue to attack in those 30 games and lose 8 by doing so we've dropped 24 points. the way I look at it anyway.
 
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ned_werby said:
It's a perfectly acceptable tactic which shows confidence in our ability to manage a game. It also has the benefit of allowing us to hit on the break if the opportunity arises. Scares the bloke sitting behind me to death but I'm quite happy with it. Out of 46 games if were' ahead in in 30 of them and concede an equaliser late on in, say 8 we lose 16 points. If we continue to attack in those 30 games and lose 8 by doing so we've dropped 24 points. the way I look at it anyway.
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Not sure of the logic of this Ned. If we continue to attack a higher percentage of the remaining minutes will presumably be played in the opposition half,rather than if we sit back a higher percentage will be played in ours. Don't see how playing more in their half will result in them scoring at least twice,when playing more in ours will only result in them scoring once.
 
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Saff said:
I think there's a time and place for these tactics. When you're the top team in the league both in terms of players and league position, I don't think it's neccessary that we sit back and defend to close every game out.
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I agree
We seem to take off embleton and replace with Wright
Yes in some occasions this needs to be done but not every game
 
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I'm not a great fan of this but it's been successful up to now. If LJ is going to continue doing this then I think the team may need a slight re-jig in front of the back five. Maybe take a winger off and then add another striker with pace where a ball can then be hit over the top for him to chase with Stewart dropping back slightly to help out midfield
 
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sad-eyed prophet said:
Not sure of the logic of this Ned. If we continue to attack a higher percentage of the remaining minutes will presumably be played in the opposition half,rather than if we sit back a higher percentage will be played in ours. Don't see how playing more in their half will result in them scoring at least twice,when playing more in ours will only result in them scoring once.
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Push up, get caught on the break, sit back, defend well, less likely to get caught out.

Decent sides are comfortable defending and at this level we're a decent side. Top clubs do it all the time.
 
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A top of the table clash, or a relegation 6 pointer I can understand sitting back. A top of the table team against a mid-lower half team? Should be able to go in for the kill. Once the table is settled after 15-20 games or so, and we are hopefully sitting near the top, then we might see us putting more teams to the sword.
 
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Stewart runs himself ragged so I'd like him off, with 15 minutes left, if we're employing this tactic.

His touch isn't good enough to risk him in midfield and he doesn't seem to have enough defensive awareness at corners.

So I'd rather see O'Brien come on, in his place, or an actual defender as he did against Accrington. Then ask someone like Neil or Diamond to receive the ball upfield and do anything possible to run with it, get fouled or just hang onto it. Most 'last 10 minute balls' seem to be crosses so the full backs need to keep them from coming in from too close and have enough height in central defence.
 
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