Josh Hawkes

Makemstine Roger · May 12, 2021

marcusblackcat said:
I wonder how many teams would say the same about their 30 goal striker? We seem to be able to have a player who has exceeded everyone’s expectations by about a thousand percent, yet he’s still not good enough! I’ll stick to getting behind a lad who has had a fantastic season fir us. The rest of you can slag him off if you want. He’s a forward. His job is to score goals. If he did those things you mentioned and had 3 goals and 2 assists, he’d get slated too!

Love to know how you can “know” that about hawkes. I have seen nothing of him. Not a minute. I’ve seen him score goals at u23 but that’s it. I don’t know how good he is, I don’t know how skilful or strong he is. I hope he will get a chance at some point so I can make a decision. But it’s all speculation outside of hope

Marcus i value your input, and whilst i am happy Wyke got the goals he did, i was giving my take on why i don't recon him. take away McGeady's crosses and he reverts to what he was for 2 years before that , a ten goal a season man with little scope to develop any more as a player. For me he doesnt have the skills required to progress with the team, he is too static and does not have the ball control skills to warrant his place in the team, how many times do you have to watch him struggle to get a ball under control, if its not a tap in he is normally bereft of skill.. Whilst he will score and get goals against the lower teams in this leagues, when he come up against a better quality of defender in my opinion he is found wanting.And whilst i agree with most of what you write, when it comes to Wyke i just fail to see what you do in him,

As for Hawkes the same can be said for Sanderson he never got a sniff until there was no defenders left, and yet there is our own home grown talent Younger,he has played a few games is well capable at this level but is ignored so we can play midfielders in a defensive role or injured players rushed back into action to the detriment of the squad, It beggars belief from my opinion .There are some people on this board who go against the grain in their thoughts of how the team should look, i listen to both sides of the argument and form my own opinion how i think it should progress, at the end of the day we all want the same thing, there is just differing ideas of how we get there.

Nordic · May 12, 2021

Makemstine Roger said:
although there are a couple there i wouldn't have in the team

Snap. I'd take Wright out. I think he's passed his sell by date. I'd put a couple back in for the squad.

Leaving:

Keeper: Burge, Patterson, add a new keeper
Defence: McLaughlin, Younger, get Sanderson, add another defender - how badly crocked are Willis, Xhemajli?
Wingbacks: Hume, Gooch
Midfield: 2 x new CMids, O'Nien, Scowen, Neil, McGeady, Diamond,.......what about Jones, or is he too lazy?
Attack: 2 x new forwards, Wyke, Stewart, Kimpioka, Hawkes

The Norton Cat · May 12, 2021

Makemstine Roger said:
Marcus i value your input, and whilst i am happy Wyke got the goals he did, i was giving my take on why i don't recon him. take away McGeady's crosses and he reverts to what he was for 2 years before that , a ten goal a season man with little scope to develop any more as a player. For me he doesnt have the skills required to progress with the team, he is too static and does not have the ball control skills to warrant his place in the team, how many times do you have to watch him struggle to get a ball under control, if its not a tap in he is normally bereft of skill.. Whilst he will score and get goals against the lower teams in this leagues, when he come up against a better quality of defender in my opinion he is found wanting.And whilst i agree with most of what you write, when it comes to Wyke i just fail to see what you do in him,

As for Hawkes the same can be said for Sanderson he never got a sniff until there was no defenders left, and yet there is our own home grown talent Younger,he has played a few games is well capable at this level but is ignored so we can play midfielders in a defensive role or injured players rushed back into action to the detriment of the squad, It beggars belief from my opinion .There are some people on this board who go against the grain in their thoughts of how the team should look, i listen to both sides of the argument and form my own opinion how i think it should progress, at the end of the day we all want the same thing, there is just differing ideas of how we get there.

I think Wyke has done fantastically well this season and he should be applauded for that. 30 goals is a great achievement. I do wonder if the limitations that he has in his game will hold him back when we go up a level though. I think, given the season he's had, he should be given a crack at the Championship (if we get there) but we will desperately need another forward who can offer something different. I wouldn't like to be reliant on Charlie in the Championship.

As far as the young players go, we all want to see homegrown players in the first team. I can only base my opinion on what I have seen in much closer proximity at non-league level, but I cannot believe that any manager would play players out of position or bring back injured players too soon if they knew that there were capable (or better, as some people seem to be suggesting) players in the u23s. Logic dictates that you wouldn't do that. So, I think the criticism of Johnson about this is highly unfair.

marcusblackcat · May 12, 2021

Makemstine Roger said:
Marcus i value your input, and whilst i am happy Wyke got the goals he did, i was giving my take on why i don't recon him. take away McGeady's crosses and he reverts to what he was for 2 years before that , a ten goal a season man with little scope to develop any more as a player. For me he doesnt have the skills required to progress with the team, he is too static and does not have the ball control skills to warrant his place in the team, how many times do you have to watch him struggle to get a ball under control, if its not a tap in he is normally bereft of skill.. Whilst he will score and get goals against the lower teams in this leagues, when he come up against a better quality of defender in my opinion he is found wanting.And whilst i agree with most of what you write, when it comes to Wyke i just fail to see what you do in him,.

Can I just say, you take away Summerbee/Johnston/Quinn then Phillips doesn’t hit his 30. Not saying Phillips wasn’t a better player (miles better) but he heavily relied on those three as well.. he had 3 (and then some) quality players supplying him whereas wyke really only has 1. Context I suppose.

as fir the bold bit, I think his movement is way better since Johnson came in. Wyke had McGeady last season and failed. I can also pick times when his first touch has been excellent. Mainly because I look for those things. I can also remember the poor touches he’s had as well. But he’s a third division striker and always has been. I’m just congratulating him fir being one of the best in this division (possibly the best from open play this season as he doesn’t take penalties)

he’s never going to be one to take people on, never been fast enough, but as a Johnny on the spot, I’d have him any day.

FellTop · May 12, 2021

For me the difference with Wyke now getting 30 goals and previously nowhere near is the way we now play. One of the first things I remember Johnson talking about was where we cross the ball from being critical, we were crossing from midway in the opposition half and he wanted us much higher. He brought in Mcgeady and Jones and Diamond. Then Wyke was told to attack the front post and get across his man, which is really basic stuff. Hey presto suddenly he seemed Jonny on the spot. I think he deserves a bit more credit than that though. His movement when in the box is very sharp and he regularly is in a great position either between centre halves or in front of them. It isnt the case that McGeady puts it on his forehead and Wyke doesnt have to move. What McGeady does well is hit the danger area and Wyke knows where to attack. If he isnt attacking spaces like that in the box then McGeady's crosses are worthless. I also think he is a very good finisher with his head, he regularly finds the corners and the keeper has no chance. It is like the Reid team when Summerbee hit areas and the centre forwards gambled. None of this means I think Wyke is the best thing since sliced bread because we can see limitations. I have listened though to mates for years bang on about needing 20 goal a season striker and now we have one they are happy if he leaves (mates in real life not on here). I would like him to stay but would also like different types of centre forwards as well so we can mix up styles.

If Hawkes can bring something different next season in the forwards then brilliant. I want to see the young lads come through as much as the next man and if he gets his chance I will be cheering louder for him than anyone we buy. I really like the look of Dan Neil as well, and of all the u23s I think has most reason to expect more chances. I am just not as certain as some the step from the current u23 team to first team is easy to bridge, but only my opinion. What I really hope happens is the u23s get promoted, so they are playing at a higher level each week, and then we may see them really kick doors open if they keep performing. Either way, great opinions all round.

marcusblackcat · May 12, 2021

Nordic said:
Snap. I'd take Wright out. I think he's passed his sell by date. I'd put a couple back in for the squad.

Leaving:

Keeper: Burge, Patterson, add a new keeper
Defence: McLaughlin, Younger, get Sanderson, add another defender - how badly crocked are Willis, Xhemajli?
Wingbacks: Hume, Gooch
Midfield: 2 x new CMids, O'Nien, Scowen, Neil, McGeady, Diamond,.......what about Jones, or is he too lazy?
Attack: 2 x new forwards, Wyke, Stewart, Kimpioka, Hawkes

We shouldn’t be saying that about Wright though. He’s in his prime!! 28 years old!! I agree though

Jones is a player who can be a superstar one week and anonymous the next. A bit of experience may change that. He’s a better fit than diamond IMO. (But I’d keep both)

think Willis will miss the start of next season. Really bad injury he got. Far worse than Watmore’s knee issue according to my physio!! Xjemajli I’m not sure, think it’s an ACL. Hooefully he comes back strong as he started to look a good player

Teessidemackem · May 12, 2021

marcusblackcat said:
We shouldn’t be saying that about Wright though. He’s in his prime!! 28 years old!! I agree though

Jones is a player who can be a superstar one week and anonymous the next. A bit of experience may change that. He’s a better fit than diamond IMO. (But I’d keep both)

think Willis will miss the start of next season. Really bad injury he got. Far worse than Watmore’s knee issue according to my physio!! Xjemajli I’m not sure, think it’s an ACL. Hooefully he comes back strong as he started to look a good player

Willis is ruled out for another year mate. He had a relapse and needed a second operation

marcusblackcat · May 12, 2021

Teesdarlomakem said:
Willis is ruled out for another year mate. He had a relapse and needed a second operation

****ing hell man. Poor lad. Thought he had everything it needed to play at a much higher level. Pace, read the game well, could carry a ball and pass. Probably never be the same player after that big an injury

Charley Farley · May 12, 2021

Nordic said:
Snap. I'd take Wright out. I think he's passed his sell by date. I'd put a couple back in for the squad.

Leaving:

Keeper: Burge, Patterson, add a new keeper
Defence: McLaughlin, Younger, get Sanderson, add another defender - how badly crocked are Willis, Xhemajli?
Wingbacks: Hume, Gooch
Midfield: 2 x new CMids, O'Nien, Scowen, Neil, McGeady, Diamond,.......what about Jones, or is he too lazy?
Attack: 2 x new forwards, Wyke, Stewart, Kimpioka, Hawkes

The defence worries me. You mentioned Willis. Although a decent player his injuries could easily cause him to miss a lot of games even if he’s declared fit for next season.
Wright doesn’t look comfortable any more and Xhemajli may or may not return as a good defender but I think his long term injury makes him a possible liability.

It’s no coincidence that our long run of good defending ended when Dion got injured a couple of games before he had to stop playing. Some 13 games or so conceding next to no goals, better than before he was a regular starter and better than after he was injured. He made a huge difference when LJ was forced to play him because he had run out of defenders. Easily our player of the season. We should make him our number 1 priority without a doubt, wherever we end up.
I would keep McLaughlin and Younger (not good enough for league 1 but will probably be good enough for the Championship if we go up) The rest are liabilities.

One of the two Cmids could be Embleton.

I reckon we need about 6 quality Championship players in, roughly where you mentioned, and that’s in both league 1 or if we go up. I think we have the money to do it. Dion is a must and we should pay whatever it takes. We probably wouldn’t be in the playoffs if it wasn’t for him. (Yes, I’m a big fan of the lad)

Teessidemackem · May 12, 2021

marcusblackcat said:
****ing hell man. Poor lad. Thought he had everything it needed to play at a much higher level. Pace, read the game well, could carry a ball and pass. Probably never be the same player after that big an injury

I know mate....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56917909

marcusblackcat · May 12, 2021

Teesdarlomakem said:
I know mate....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56917909

Sunderland defender Jordan Willis is facing up to an extra year on the sidelines after suffering a setback in his recovery from a knee injury.

The 26-year-old ruptured his patella tendon against Shrewsbury in February and was expected to be out for at least six months.

He has now had a second operation that the club say could see him ruled out for "a further nine to 12 months".

They have extended his deal to cover next season.

Boss Lee Johnson told the club website: "First and foremost, we are here for Jordan on a human level - if he needs to reach out to anyone of us, we will help him as much as we possibly can.

"On a professional level, we are gutted because of what a good player he is and what he brings to the squad - on and off the pitch."
———————————————
On that, I think the bit I bolded shows the type of people we have running the club now. They could literally have thrown him on the scrap heap and said “sort yourself out”. To offer him a contract, IMO, is a fantastic gesture. Think there was some stick flying about on here about it but I can only see it as a good thing.

clockstander · May 12, 2021

Charley Farley said:
The defence worries me. You mentioned Willis. Although a decent player his injuries could easily cause him to miss a lot of games even if he’s declared fit for next season.
Wright doesn’t look comfortable any more and Xhemajli may or may not return as a good defender but I think his long term injury makes him a possible liability.

It’s no coincidence that our long run of good defending ended when Dion got injured a couple of games before he had to stop playing. Some 13 games or so conceding next to no goals, better than before he was a regular starter and better than after he was injured. He made a huge difference when LJ was forced to play him because he had run out of defenders. Easily our player of the season. We should make him our number 1 priority without a doubt, wherever we end up.
I would keep McLaughlin and Younger (not good enough for league 1 but will probably be good enough for the Championship if we go up) The rest are liabilities.

One of the two Cmids could be Embleton.

I reckon we need about 6 quality Championship players in, roughly where you mentioned, and that’s in both league 1 or if we go up. I think we have the money to do it. Dion is a must and we should pay whatever it takes. We probably wouldn’t be in the playoffs if it wasn’t for him. (Yes, I’m a big fan of the lad)

Agree completely, if we cant get Wolves to sell , another season on loan would be the next best thing, and to do this we must get into the Championship, as he is far too good for L1. Unfortunately we cant say that about too many of our current squad. But I doubt this new ownership will be satisfied with what they have seen so far, and unless things improve, I think we will see changes, at least I hope so. OaU.

cumbrianmackem · May 12, 2021

clockstander said:
Agree completely, if we cant get Wolves to sell , another season on loan would be the next best thing, and to do this we must get into the Championship, as he is far too good for L1. Unfortunately we cant say that about too many of our current squad. But I doubt this new ownership will be satisfied with what they have seen so far, and unless things improve, I think we will see changes, at least I hope so. OaU.

Clocky
Think we could be looking at a completely different starting eleven next season whatever league were in.
Like you say Kyril has had a good look at what's available and must be shaking his head at some individuals.

Essayyeffcee · May 12, 2021

cumbrianmackem said:
Clocky
Think we could be looking at a completely different starting eleven next season whatever league were in.
Like you say Kyril has had a good look at what's available and must be shaking his head at some individuals.

Ideally I think you could be right with a handful of those out of contract being offered a deal - whether they accept it will be another matter. Hopefully we can then bring in players from higher up the league but it would largely depend on which league we are in

FellTop · May 12, 2021

Essayyeffcee said:
Ideally I think you could be right with a handful of those out of contract being offered a deal - whether they accept it will be another matter. Hopefully we can then bring in players from higher up the league but it would largely depend on which league we are in

Our out of contract list this summer is long. Leadbitter, Scowen, Power, McGeady, McLaughlin, Maguire, Matthews, Burge, Wyke, O'Nien, Macfadzean, Hume. Not sure if any have the option of an extra year. Add the 3 loan players who will go back.

How many get offered a new deal? McLaughlin, O'Nien, Hume, Wyke, Burge, McGeady? Would they all accept? O'Nien, Wyke, Hume may all have offers elsewhere.

Of those with a contract next year from the current 1st team how many can we see in the team? Stewart, Diamond, Gooch? Wright and Winchester?

Whichever way you look at it the summer will need a glut of new players and we will look a very different 11 first game next year. I hope we have a busy pre-season because it will take some getting game ready I think.

The good news for us is it will be a buyers market. There are plenty of decent championship players looking for a club and if we have money to spend plenty of the best players who can be had to get ubs out of a financial hole. There have been a few L1 players I have seen this year that I would have here. I think the chance to build a good side is there for us, whatever league we are in, it is up to the new lads now to get it right.

malagamackem · May 12, 2021

The Norton Cat said:
I agree. He's looked like a completely different player this season. I want to see aesthetically pleasing football and that's not always him but I don't see how you can complain about a return of 30 goals.

This

Wyke invariably does his best
A good partnership is usually the making of a centre forward
Where would Phillips have been without Quinn?

Well done Mr Wyke and Mr Mcgeady for their contribution and partnership this season

Oldsandy · May 12, 2021

Draig said:
I am a bit concerned about LJ's views re the younger players.

We all know Sanderson didn't get a first team slot until our other CBs were crocked.

Now he comes out with this

"I’m not saying he wouldn’t be able to from the bench – to go and dominate an opponent technically, which he can, tactically, which naturally he’s got a little bit to do, but physically I think is the key for him."

If you can technically and tactically dominate an opponent then surely you deserve a try in the first team?!

FFS Super Kev was hardly a man mountain and neither was Micheal Owen!

To that list you can add Bobby Kerr. There is an old adage: if he’s good enough, he’s big enough. Bobby and others were. Is Hawkes?

Draig · May 12, 2021

Oldsandy said:
To that list you can add Bobby Kerr. There is an old adage: if he’s good enough, he’s big enough. Bobby and others were. Is Hawkes?

That's the big question and ultimately you have to buy the ticket to win the lottery.

LJ reminds me of the old joke about the man who prays to god every day to win the lottery and after six months god answers him and says, meet me half way - buy a ticket!

Makemstine Roger · May 12, 2021

Draig said:
That's the big question and ultimately you have to buy the ticket to win the lottery.

LJ reminds me of the old joke about the man who prays to god every day to win the lottery and after six months god answers him and says, meet me half way - buy a ticket!

Nordic · May 12, 2021

marcusblackcat said:
We shouldn’t be saying that about Wright though. He’s in his prime!! 28 years old!! I agree though

Jones is a player who can be a superstar one week and anonymous the next. A bit of experience may change that. He’s a better fit than diamond IMO. (But I’d keep both)

think Willis will miss the start of next season. Really bad injury he got. Far worse than Watmore’s knee issue according to my physio!! Xjemajli I’m not sure, think it’s an ACL. Hooefully he comes back strong as he started to look a good player

I thought he was about 34, injuries have done for him unfortunately. Like all our other centre halves

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