Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool

Spurf said:

Madrid & Chelsea rely on big spending as I said. We can't/won't do that.
Spurlock I am saying that United are worse off since Mourinho left. Fergie leaving has had the same effect as when Busby left United It takes years to find another manager at the same level. It's taken us years to replace Burkinshaw as it took years to replace Nicholson it could take years to replace Pochettino.

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Since mourinho left the 2nd time we have spent the same amount as you guys.

Appreciate we have spent big previously over the many years. Poch has done a great job making buys and getting the best out of them prior to the start of the calendar year but in all honesty, player for player more of the spurs players would make the combined team than chelseas so in that respect its a failure on poches part imo.

Lastly im not sure arsenal have gone backwards from wenger. Granted they are pretty **** now but they were just as bad inder wenger in their final season.

Spurf loves DH. DH loves Spurf. Get a room!

Shouldn't we have been playing mighty Crawley today. I wonder what went wrong?

I remember fans saying that about Perryman when he came into the side. All effort and nothing else......

PleaseNotPoll said:

Winks isn't playing well, but I don't think that many players are and it largely comes down to how they're being used.
He's not a holding midfield player and playing there in the diamond is a terrible fit for him.
He can't be progressive, as losing the ball in that position would be disastrous and he's not a good defender, either.

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Since at least last season Poch seems to have been trying to mold Winks into a Modric/Rakitic-type midfielder, whose role is to sit deep and dictate play with quick through balls to release the attacking players while also closing down the channels when the opposition have the ball, and Winks is capable of doing just that

The problem is that deploying him in the Jorginho-like role at the base of THE BASTARD DIAMOND mainly serves to nullify his positive traits and amplify his negative ones. The most obvious issue is that Winks needs a DM alongside him, which isn't a problem for Modric or Rakitic as they have Casmeiro and Busquets respectively alongside them but Winks doesn't have that luxury. The second one, and the one that's been particularly problematic, is THE BASTARD DIAMOND actively made playing the Modric/Rakitic role so much more difficult because while the 4231 offers various options for the pass such as Son/Lucas/Lamela breaking down the flank or Kane/Dele making a break into the box, instead everything was so compact and there were far less passes to make - and this caused two problems, namely having Winks be far more conservative in his passing as the forward options are crowded out far more easily (and Winks playing so deep often means they're not in a position to break) while also exposing that he's not a particularly press-resistant player in the way that Ndombele or Sissoko are

This is the problem with our midfield: we have plenty of 8s in Ndombele, Winks and Sissoko but no 6s other than Dier and maybe Skipp, and that's why we're not only playing Winks in a role he's not suited for but also why we had to adopt the Air Raid tactics last season as we were unable to lock down midfields like we could when we had prime Dier/Dembele or Wanyama/Dembele giving us a midfield base carved out of granite

PleaseNotPoll said:

Winks isn't playing well, but I don't think that many players are and it largely comes down to how they're being used.
He's not a holding midfield player and playing there in the diamond is a terrible fit for him.
He can't be progressive, as losing the ball in that position would be disastrous and he's not a good defender, either.

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So what is he? What is his midfield role?

2 goals and 2 assists in over a 100 games for us

These players are returning poor stats for the important positions they are taking up in the team.

bigsmithy9 said:

I remember fans saying that about Perryman when he came into the side. All effort and nothing else......

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I always remember that too Smithy. There have always been footballers whose contribution is not immediately obvious. Ray Wilkins for example you could see what he was good at when he wasn't there and the same for me (because I only saw his England performances) was Bryan Robson a hugely important player who did things in such a way you never noticed until he wasn't there.

Dier Hard said:

Yes.

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We drew 1-1 in the 60 mins Winks was on the pitch. We lost 1-0 in the thirty mins that Ndombele was.

PleaseNotPoll said:

Winks isn't playing well, but I don't think that many players are and it largely comes down to how they're being used.
He's not a holding midfield player and playing there in the diamond is a terrible fit for him.
He can't be progressive, as losing the ball in that position would be disastrous and he's not a good defender, either.

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I think this is partly where my gripe from him comes from, he doesn't seem to have a speciality to his game that makes him unique and it's why I'm often left scratching my head thinking "why are you on the pitch?". This is now his fourth season in the first team and we still don't really know where he excels.

I'm of the opinion that Tanguy is maybe the sort of player we hope/ hoped he'd be as he has a solid enough passing range in his locker but seems to lack the vision and intent to ever truly utilise it. Tanguy seems like the heir to Modric more so than Dembele for me, he has parts of both players about him but his ability to make those dangerous through balls from midfield is exactly what I loved watching Modric for.

PowerSpurs said:

We drew 1-1 in the 60 mins Winks was on the pitch. We lost 1-0 in the thirty mins that Ndombele was.

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[HASHTAG]#TanguyOut[/HASHTAG]

Since plenty of hacks with an agenda (and certain blogs written by Baddiel-faced ****stains) have been recycling one comment from Poch after the game, here's the counterpoint: what Poch actually said, rather than an isolated two-second soundbite to twist into some clickbait

Dier Hard said:

I think this is partly where my gripe from him comes from, he doesn't seem to have a speciality to his game that makes him unique and it's why I'm often left scratching my head thinking "why are you on the pitch?". This is now his fourth season in the first team and we still don't really know where he excels.

I'm of the opinion that Tanguy is maybe the sort of player we hope/ hoped he'd be as he has a solid enough passing range in his locker but seems to lack the vision and intent to ever truly utilise it. Tanguy seems like the heir to Modric more so than Dembele for me, he has parts of both players about him but his ability to make those dangerous through balls from midfield is exactly what I loved watching Modric for.

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The thing that Winks does better than any other player we have is be available to receive a pass. That makes an enormous difference to our ability to keep possession. After he went off on Sunday we were forced to make more forward passes so looked more attacking but we lost possession more easily too.

PowerSpurs said:

The thing that Winks does better than any other player we have is be available to receive a pass. That makes an enormous difference to our ability to keep possession. After he went off on Sunday we were forced to make more forward passes so looked more attacking but we lost possession more easily too.

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I agree with this to an extent, but even as one of his most ardent advocates on here I am concerned that after the injury he sustained when he first broke through, he has lost the part of his game when he recieved the ball more on the half turn and dealt with pressure better and was more positive in his play, even carrying the ball forwards sometimes. I was hopeful that he would recover these attributes but he hasn’t shown it yet. Whether he’s being asked to play it more safe by management (which I doubt) or if he’s just lost confidence in his ability to do these things, I don’t know.

I do like that he’ll try and take the ball off the CBs in deeper positions though, as that is important. He needs to get back to being more positive and thinking quicker on the ball though, or his play time will deservedly get more limited as other midfielders get up to speed.