The UK has to stay in the EU for the young people
Bollocks to the blue sheep waste of time they should be culled
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which country do these young people want to be unemployed in
The UK has to stay in the EU for the young people
Bollocks to the blue sheep waste of time they should be culled
The Norway option is worse than what's on the table now. I honestly don't understand why anyone would be proposing it.I think there is more chance of a peoples "veto".
Without, genuinely, wishing to stir things up, this cluster **** is raising some interesting constitutional questions, which I am far from qualified to comment on.So much to disagree with from DT and Yorkshire, but it's all been said already. We just go around in circles and we'll never agree.
So, if Parliament decides to reject this deal in favour of something else, including staying in or another referendum (though that would be dereliction of duty from my standpoint) it would be a shining example of what many Brexiters voted for - the exercise of Parliamentary Sovereignty.
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which country do these young people want to be unemployed in
Not in the customs union which allows trade deals outside of EEA. In European free market which has huge benefits imo for people and continued free European market access for UK services, about 80% of the economy.The Norway option is worse than what's on the table now. I honestly don't understand why anyone would be proposing it.
Comparison between unemployment rates in different countries is very unreliable Kiwi, because different counties measure it in different ways. There is a big difference between measuring it as a ratio against those available for the job market, as against all of those in a certain age group. Countries like France, Spain and Greece have a far higher percentage of young people in post compulsory higher education participation than that found in the UK. They then measure unemployment against those remaining on the job market, and thus arrive at a much higher figure than eg. the UK. which measures in a different way.You must log in or register to see images
which country do these young people want to be unemployed in
So much to disagree with from DT and Yorkshire, but it's all been said already. We just go around in circles and we'll never agree.
How about somebody culls you, you complete unpatriotic, democracy denying,europhile fruit loop.The UK has to stay in the EU for the young people
Bollocks to the blue sheep waste of time they should be culled
Agree I only see a free trade deal out of this. Some interesting comments from financial Bods yesterday who said a lot of business were ready for any outcome even a no deal but it was the government who seem to be the ones not prepared. ( It's as if May has orcastrated this to fail)The Norway option is worse than what's on the table now. I honestly don't understand why anyone would be proposing it.
Countries like France, Spain and Greece have a far higher percentage of young people in post compulsory higher education participation than that found in the UK. They then measure unemployment against those remaining on the job market, and thus arrive at a much higher figure than eg. the UK. which measures in a different way.
Without, genuinely, wishing to stir things up, this cluster **** is raising some interesting constitutional questions, which I am far from qualified to comment on.
As you know I don’t want another referendum, I don’t like them full stop (although I recognise there are certain rare circumstances they are the right thing to do). They don’t sit well with a representative parliamentary system in my opinion. Plus I entirely agree with the Brexiters objection that it smacks of asking the question endlessly until the ‘right’ answer is obtained. The 2016 referendum, though it was a ****ing moronic idea by a ****ing moronic Prime Minister, held for all the wrong reasons, offered a clear choice and a decision was made. The wrong one from my standpoint, but there you go.
But one of the things that many Brexit voters wanted was more ‘sovereignty’. Again as you know I have my views on what this really means, but not relevant here. But we do have to be absolutely clear what sovereignty means in this debate. Again my opinion only, in the British system sovereignty is held (with technically the Queen’s permission) by our elected representatives in Parliament. Not by ‘the people’.
So what are the MPs for? In my view they are representatives not delegates. They are not there to do what their constituents, or the people who voted for them, want, they are there to study all the issues the government puts in front of them to a depth which we ordinary citizens cannot and vote according to what they believe is best for all of their constituents.
So, if Parliament decides to reject this deal in favour of something else, including staying in or another referendum (though that would be dereliction of duty from my standpoint) it would be a shining example of what many Brexiters voted for - the exercise of Parliamentary Sovereignty.
Our big problem is that, despite many of them acting as excellent advocates for individual constituents with problems, the overall quality of our elected representatives is shockingly low, something which we all seem to agree on. I don’t trust them to do their jobs properly.
The alternative would be a new form of much more direct democracy, many more referenda, more active and inclusive local government structures, building to a national level. I’m guessing that only Stainsey on here would be really for this. For it to work you need a massively motivated, informed and engaged population, otherwise only the activists will have a voice, the one who can be bothered to turn out, debate, vote. A system open to abuse, intimidation and manipulation, like local Labour constituency parties. Not for me.
I’ve probably got bits of this wrong, just trying to think it through, and will be grateful for correction/education. It seems to me that we are in a now in a position where we are also divided on what our democracy actually is and how it should work. The one plus is that I can see the demise of the two party dominant system from all this, both major parties are hopelessly split and in neither do a majority of their MPs support their leader.
Right on all points Raving. One of the reasons I like the idea, if not the practice, of the EU is that it enables much bigger scale thinking and action.Excellent post. Can I sense check something? Are you sceptical about the notion of national sovereignty? If so, am I correct to assume that is on the basis of increasing numbers of global corporations with as much wealth/power/influence as a medium sized country, and no loyalty to a given nation state? Further based on the number of challenges we now face which are truly global (eg warming) which necessitate co-operative (ie compromise) responses from all Govts? Do please correct if/where wrong!
Seriously everyone has been let down by UK politics because our culture has let it . They should know that they work for us and sadly they don’t
It is so hard to work out what way this will go?Right on all points Raving. One of the reasons I like the idea, if not the practice, of the EU is that it enables much bigger scale thinking and action.