Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
sb_73 said:
We won't get the common market back though. We're more likely to get what we had when the Weimar Republic collapsed.
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The longer the EU continues as it is with the failing euro creating insolvency and injustice in the poorer member states , exacerbated by socialist EU governments forcing through an agenda of unlimited immigration in their countries, the more likely we are to see a rise of the right in Europe.
 
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GoldhawkRd said:
The longer the EU continues as it is with the failing euro creating insolvency and injustice in the poorer member states , exacerbated by socialist EU governments forcing through an agenda of unlimited immigration in their countries, the more likely we are to see a rise of the right in Europe.
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The EU may be contributing to the 'rise of the right', but only as a convenient scapegoat for these populist blame merchants. Blame the EU, immigrants, big business, globalisation, the liberal elite whoever. If it wasn't these it would be something. Populism is fertile ground at the moment because successive governments of all shades have promised individuals they can have anything they want, and when they are disappointed in their lives they look to blame others.

Blair was a socialist? Hmmm, I think not. Merkel is a Socialist? News to me, and her I suspect.
 
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sb_73 said:
The EU may be contributing to the 'rise of the right', but only as a convenient scapegoat for these populist blame merchants. Blame the EU, immigrants, big business, globalisation, the liberal elite whoever. If it wasn't these it would be something. Populism is fertile ground at the moment because successive governments of all shades have promised individuals they can have anything they want, and when they are disappointed in their lives they look to blame others.

Blair was a socialist? Hmmm, I think not. Merkel is a Socialist? News to me, and her I suspect.
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Blair called himself a socialist, though many will disown him now. I had in mind Hollande who is incredibly unpopular in France and with good reason. Renzi too, Italy's economic growth has been almost non existent. The inequalities arising from the euro are largely to blame as they are in Greece.
 
GoldhawkRd said:
Blair called himself a socialist, though many will disown him now. I had in mind Hollande who is incredibly unpopular in France and with good reason. Renzi too, Italy's economic growth has been almost non existent. The inequalities arising from the euro are largely to blame as they are in Greece.
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As I have said many times on this thread the Euro (while I applaud the concept) was fatally flawed at the beginning. It certainly helped expose the structural problems of the Southern European economies, but the 2008 recession, which had nothing to do with the Euro and everything to do with banking, had a much bigger impact. Without the Euro all these countries, including Ireland, would have valueless currencies and would have defaulted on their debts. Instead they have austerity, which I thought you would have supported.

Italy's one and only (thoroughly corrupt) socialist government was way back in the eighties, Blair created New Labour to distance the party from socialism, Hollande has been in power 4 years, his predecessors were Sarkozy and Chirac, hardly left wingers. Did they have no role in immigration before 2012? Who do you hate more, the EU or Socialists? Neither is an insult in my world, though I wouldn't describe myself as a Socialist.
 
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sb_73 said:
As I have said many times on this thread the Euro (while I applaud the concept) was fatally flawed at the beginning. It certainly helped expose the structural problems of the Southern European economies, but the 2008 recession, which had nothing to do with the Euro and everything to do with banking, had a much bigger impact. Without the Euro all these countries, including Ireland, would have valueless currencies and would have defaulted on their debts. Instead they have austerity, which I thought you would have supported.

Italy's one and only (thoroughly corrupt) socialist government was way back in the eighties, Blair created New Labour to distance the party from socialism, Hollande has been in power 4 years, his predecessors were Sarkozy and Chirac, hardly left wingers. Did they have no role in immigration before 2012? Who do you hate more, the EU or Socialists? Neither is an insult in my world, though I wouldn't describe myself as a Socialist.
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Blair created New Labour to distance himself from the pre-Thatcher failures of Foot and Kinnock. Policies like his open door to immigration were socialist, liberal, no border-no nation type, taking traditional voters for granted, and accounts in large part for the mess Labour are in now. The only merit I can see to a socialist-style approach is occasionally as a foil against a long term right wing govt that's lost its way eg Thatcher and the poll tax.

I can see few benefits from the euro. The UK's economic growth has been about ten times that of Italy. Spain loses many of its young workers to the UK. As for Hollande, it's not for nothing his time in power has seen a huge rise in support for the National Front.
 
sb_73 said:
As I have said many times on this thread the Euro (while I applaud the concept) was fatally flawed at the beginning. It certainly helped expose the structural problems of the Southern European economies, but the 2008 recession, which had nothing to do with the Euro and everything to do with banking, had a much bigger impact. Without the Euro all these countries, including Ireland, would have valueless currencies and would have defaulted on their debts. Instead they have austerity, which I thought you would have supported.

Italy's one and only (thoroughly corrupt) socialist government was way back in the eighties, Blair created New Labour to distance the party from socialism, Hollande has been in power 4 years, his predecessors were Sarkozy and Chirac, hardly left wingers. Did they have no role in immigration before 2012? Who do you hate more, the EU or Socialists? Neither is an insult in my world, though I wouldn't describe myself as a Socialist.
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Hatred too strong a word, but I tend to dislike most things socialist.
 
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GoldhawkRd said:
Blair created New Labour to distance himself from the pre-Thatcher failures of Foot and Kinnock. Policies like his open door to immigration were socialist, liberal, no border-no nation type, taking traditional voters for granted, and accounts in large part for the mess Labour are in now. The only merit I can see to a socialist-style approach is occasionally as a foil against a long term right wing govt that's lost its way eg Thatcher and the poll tax.

I can see few benefits from the euro. The UK's economic growth has been about ten times that of Italy. Spain loses many of its young workers to the UK. As for Hollande, it's not for nothing his time in power has seen a huge rise in support for the National Front.
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Possibly lighting the blue touch paper here, but I rather liked the idea of the poll tax.
 
Uber_Hoop said:
Possibly lighting the blue touch paper here, but I rather liked the idea of the poll tax.
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I rather like the idea of a progressive tax based on ability to pay. Let's call it 'Income Tax'. It could work, if only you could make people pay it.
 
Stroller said:
I rather like the idea of a progressive tax based on ability to pay. Let's call it 'Income Tax'. It could work, if only you could make people pay it.
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You would :)

I have no issue with everybody paying a rate in the pound and there being a tax-free threshold, but I do object to paying a higher rate on higher earnings. We've done this one before, I'm sure, but I flatter myself that I can spend my money better than any government can.
 
Uber_Hoop said:
You would :)

I have no issue with everybody paying a rate in the pound and there being a tax-free threshold, but I do object to paying a higher rate on higher earnings. We've done this one before, I'm sure, but I flatter myself that I can spend my money better than any government can.
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I think you'll find that I can spend your money better than you can.
 
Has anyone on here ever had no money, no assets etc for a sustained period of time?

I doubt it

Being a baby ant don't count ... they make you buy everything you have little control
 
Matteo Renzi the Italian PM has resigned after being defeated on constitutional reforms.
 
finglasqpr said:
I hope Ellers didn't wager his hard earned on a grand treble. Austria/Italy/Le Pen.
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I didn't mate.
I said many people in Europe are fed up with the EU and are reacting to it. The thing with Austria is that Hofer still managed 48% That's like Brexit, another country that is split. I have just heard about Italy as well. The whole thing is falling apart.
Euro 1.20 to the £. That will go up again so my holiday in the South France is back on!
 
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