The EU debate - Part III

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PleaseNotPoll said:
I largely agree with this and it feeds into my point about the media creating fear and scapegoats.
There is an issue with the police in the US, though. It's far less of one over here, but it's still a bit of a problem.
Up until this year I'd probably have been with you on the systematic racism thing, but that's gone to ****, unfortunately.
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There's a few bits on the following video I can't quite grasp, but a fair few points I think are worth making.

As an aside, I've been watching a fair few clips on the US election, and the comments are almost identical, apart from the names of the demons.

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petersaxton said:
You said: “Anyway, I see May is now hoping to use a 1 day motion to push through with triggering article 50, instead of putting it before a proper parliamentary bill.
Expect to see the judges quash her again with this.”
Why should the judges get involved? Do you think a one day motion to trigger article 50 is illegal? If you do then can you provide evidence?
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A one day Motion is clearly not 'illegal'. But I don't think it can repeal a Law which is what the Court said was necessary. So she can have one passed but it won't be sufficient for her to trigger article 50. I don't understand why a democrat such as yourself wants the Govt to usurp the powers of Parliament to make laws
 
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Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
In some places it goes beyond cultural, I was merely picking them as an example of the difference, because I've experienced it in European Countries, and had I been treat with the same bias because of my colour, it would have been systemic racism. The point was more that we can all suffer discrimination on certain grounds like class etc, so to focus in on one element can actually be counter productive as it promotes a victim mentality.
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Ever been to Japan, for instance? I have,

They discriminate against 'Gaijin' quite openly.

In Trinidad, I suffered from blatant discrimination because of my skin colour.

Having experienced it first hand, it's not nice, trust me. And yes, you could easily feel victimised if you spent enough time in a place like that.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
They create the fear, though. They tell everyone that there's this massive problem and that it's the fault of whatever they don't like.
They suggest that there's a problem, then they solve that problem.
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I don't see that they create the fear, they capitalise on the fear that's already there. Of course offering solutions will help sell papers!!
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Ever been to Japan, for instance? I have,

They discriminate against 'Gaijin' quite openly.

In Trinidad, I suffered from blatant discrimination because of my skin colour.

Having experienced it first hand, it's not nice, trust me. And yes, you could easily feel victimised if you spent enough time in a place like that.
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There are areas of this country I've experienced it too.
 
petersaxton said:
Do you think it's democratic to vote to not trigger article 50 to come out of the EU when the country has voted to come out of the EU?
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We live in a Parliamentary democracy where the right to make laws is that of parliament and parliament alone. If Parliament had wanted to allow the referendum to change the Law of the Land they could have done so but they didn't. What should my MP do? His constituents voted for remain. Is it democratic of him to ignore that and vote the way the rest of the country voted. What the people should really be doing in this situation is howling against the Govt that lied to them about the effects of the referendum.
 
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NowsufferinginSpain said:
Exactly right!.

You have to ask, what's she so afraid of? Why is she so keen to avoid taking this to parliament, as the courts have told her to do?

If she puts it in front of parliament, gets it validated, and then goes ahead, she's got firm ground and the agreement of parliament for her stance.

If not, then she's planning something she knows she can't sell to a parliamentary vote!
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Before I start, I'm not sure what the answer is, as the democratic solution has to prevail. However, this has got ****up with a capital F, written all over it.
Whilst the rest of the EU is waiting for us to trigger article 50, our own parliament will be squabbling like a load of school children, with the sole aim of stroking there already over inflated ego's.
You can then imagine any future negotiations with the EU. We will go in with our demands and they will tell us to go **** ourselves. Maybe this is what May is afraid of?
 
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pieguts said:
Before I start, I'm not sure what the answer is, as the democratic solution has to prevail. However, this has got ****up with a capital F, written all over it.
Whilst the rest of the EU is waiting for us to trigger article 50, our own parliament will be squabbling like a load of school children, with the sole aim of stroking there already over inflated ego's.
You can then imagine any future negotiations with the EU. We will go in with our demands and they will tell us to go **** ourselves. Maybe this is what May is afraid of?
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But we won the war!..Bloody ingrates!..

Seriously, you're exactly right. As the spoof said, the courts cannot derail our Brexit plan, because we don't have one!...

Unless and until May can find a middle way to satisfy her own warring party, what's the point of going to the EU?
 
PowerSpurs said:
We live in a Parliamentary democracy where the right to make laws is that of parliament and parliament alone. If Parliament had wanted to allow the referendum to change the Law of the Land they could have done so but they didn't. What should my MP do? His constituents voted for remain. Is it democratic of him to ignore that and vote the way the rest of the country voted. What the people should really be doing in this situation is howling against the Govt that lied to them about the effects of the referendum.
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The CPS is considering investigating the leave campaign for 'misleading voters' and being in breach of electoral law. The campaign was based on a pack of lies, which its arch-proponents came out and admitted were lies the very next morning.

MPs should vote on what is best for the country and that can only be done if a full and proper parliamentary bill is debated in the commons on the terms of brexit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...investigation-misleading-voters-a7403036.html
 
PowerSpurs said:
A one day Motion is clearly not 'illegal'. But I don't think it can repeal a Law which is what the Court said was necessary. So she can have one passed but it won't be sufficient for her to trigger article 50. I don't understand why a democrat such as yourself wants the Govt to usurp the powers of Parliament to make laws
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A resolution that could potentially go through parliament in a day or two would be sufficent to give the PM permission to act.
The supreme Court could decide this is sufficent dependant on the terms of the resolution. Article 50 itself doesn't remove any rights, it's the fact that rights will be lost so it's possible the court could rule this is sufficent providing legislation is brought before the house prior to the two years expiring( or the date those rights would be lost).

That's my take anyway.
 
Tobes said:
****s like you, was a reference to you being a racist, not an immigrant, but you knew that. Don't try and spin it any other way.

You being a racist makes you a scum bag by definition, so yes those who don't hold your view are better than you, as your views are archaic, dangerous and have no place in our society. I for one won't ignore your fascist posts and I'll continually call you out on them. As should everyone on this thread who has the misfortune to read them.

You've spoken about your motives being to protect the culture and traditions of this nation, and yet your sole focus is on skin colour. You are judging 'Britishness' on the colour of someone's skin, not their beliefs, or the way they live their lives, merely on their colour. Your idiotic view means by default that black and Asian born Brits are an issue in your sad World.

Your suggested remedies to a declining white majority is in essence breeding programmes for white Brits and bolting the door. Which makes you a white supremacist. Maybe the Deep South of the US is more suited to your philosophy on life.
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Perhaps this would be justified if I were actually a racist, but I'm not, so it isn't. Why is wanting to see the continuation of a race of people 'archaic'? Why is it dangerous to think? Even more so, why is it out of place in our own society, you realise you are essentially advocating for the very downfall of this society with your objections? Ooh I'm a fascist too now, so many labels I've lost count.

My sole focus isn't on skin colour, I've mentioned other factors. You just keep choosing to focus on race because all you then have to do is call me a racist and run off rather than answer any of my questions and expose your narrow ideas to any challenges.

What are your suggested remedies to a declining white population? Again, wanting to ensure the continuation of a group of people doesn't make me a supremacist, I don't think you know what the word means if that is how you are defining it.
 
The Zlatan said:
Perhaps this would be justified if I were actually a racist, but I'm not, so it isn't. Why is wanting to see the continuation of a race of people 'archaic'? Why is it dangerous to think? Even more so, why is it out of place in our own society, you realise you are essentially advocating for the very downfall of this society with your objections? Ooh I'm a fascist too now, so many labels I've lost count.

My sole focus isn't on skin colour, I've mentioned other factors. You just keep choosing to focus on race because all you then have to do is call me a racist and run off rather than answer any of my questions and expose your narrow ideas to any challenges.

What are your suggested remedies to a declining white population? Again, wanting to ensure the continuation of a group of people doesn't make me a supremacist, I don't think you know what the word means if that is how you are defining it.
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Is the white population declining or is the proportion of whites in society (UK or world) declining? Or both? Genuine questions.
 
steveninaster1 said:
I don't claim superiority and I have no mixed race heritage, I married into a mixed race family. I'm probably more white than you are, not that it matters although watching your preconceptions squirm has been amusing.

Your presumptions are pathetic and my family would rip your attempts to define white into tiny little pieces.

Many non whites have come to the UK over the centuries and all have been assimilated into what we call white British. Therein lies your problem and your failure. Genetically we are all a melting pot. There is no such thing as culturally white, second/ third generation black/ asians are just as likely to hold westernised european views.
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I'm not squirming, although I think you've deliberately been trying to mislead my preconceptions of you by the things that you've posted just to try and get a petty one up on me.

I don't quite know what you mean by that.

The rest of what you say is a bit redundant, it's just a denial of what I've mentioned before without any reason. Playground stuff.
 
Stanley the Magnet said:
You're a stone cold racist **** although I suspect you genuinely don't think you are.

The **** in your post wouldn't be out of place in a Nazi party pamphlet.

There's no hope of rehabilitating people like you.
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That's a nice word, 'rehabilitate'. Rehabilitate what exactly? Do you want compulsory education classes for bigots like me?
 
The Zlatan said:
I'm not squirming, although I think you've deliberately been trying to mislead my preconceptions of you by the things that you've posted just to try and get a petty one up on me.

I don't quite know what you mean by that.

The rest of what you say is a bit redundant, it's just a denial of what I've mentioned before without any reason. Playground stuff.
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I don't need any petty one upmanship. I'm clear in my mind of exactly what you are and what you represent regardless of what you try to claim.

Racism pure and simple.
 
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