The end of the United way

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Ian Thumwood said:
As a Southampton fan I am more concerned by the fortunes of my own team but it is fascinating to witness the continued fall of Man Utd and not draw comparisons with the teams of the ate 70s and early 80's where the likes of Docherty , Sexton and Atkinson all seemed glamourous appointments yet the teams never seemed to rise to the levels both the media and the fans expected. That period was one dominated by Liverpool but also a time when provincial teams had a good chance at making an impression too. Sir Alex Ferguson always boasted that his greatest achievement was breaking the dominance of Liverpool. Having no axe to grind with both clubs, I feel that what he achieved far surpassed the combined accomplishments of Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish. No English team has quite matched the quality of Ferguson;s sides and if a host of modern managers can probably boast of greater prowess than was the case before the 1990's, I don't think any will quite be able to hold a light to Sir Alex.

With this in mind, it is amazing at the way Mourinho seems to have collected a squad of superstars who don't seem to play as a team. The teams assembled by both Moyes and LVG quickly lost the "fear factor" for teams like Southampton who have always been a bogey team for you. I would have thought that Mourinho would have restored your fortunes but the style of football you are playing is negative and nowhere as near as good as teams like Arsenal, Spurs, City and even Liverpool. As an outsider, you seem to be in the same predicament as Liverpool in the 1990s. Do you think that Man Uts would be better off ditching the superstars and playing a team who came from the vicinity of Manchester and for whom their would at least be some pride attached with playing for the club. I believe that Chelsea under Mourinho had the record for the number of domestic players out on loan with other clubs. This seems a marked contrast to Man Utd's team of the early 1990s who were nearly all home-grown. Conversely, in the "modern game", I am not sure that this system would be a total success in 2016 . Once Ferguson has retired, the genie was out of the bottle. I can't see a short term solution to fixing the problem but, if I was a Man Utd fan, it would be worrying and I would be concerned that the club could replicate the fate of Liverpool and maybe even mindful of how the great squad of the 1960s imploded to get relegated in to Division 2. I would have to say that I can never see Man Uts ever getting relegated but I can see you slipping out of Uefa cup contention if the rot is not addressed.
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Honest criticism but I think you're wrong about homegrown local lads. Firstly, the four other teams you've quoted as being better than us atm - City, Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal. How many of them are consistently putting out more local lads or youth players into the 1st team than United (even under Mourinho, LVG and Moyes)??

Secondly we have at least 2 local lads who are playing plenty of games.

My final point is probably the most important. Have a look at Mata's face, Pogba's, Blind's, Martial's, Herrera's at the end of the game against Chelsea. Mata in particular was completely ****ed off. The problem isn't that these players are playing. The problem is these players are NOT playing. Starting the likes of Fellaini in midfield (or Rooney in midfield) before these guys, as they watch from the bench, must be soul destroying. And yet our two games prior to the loss against Chelsea - who were our stand out performers? Mata and Herrera.

The 1st half performance against CFC was gutless, I won't argue there. The players looked clueless and indifferent. But imagine you're playing with a lumbering oaf like Fellaini who offers absolutely FCK ALL and is being told to go up field and support Ibrah. Then imagine you're Lingard and Rashford being told to stay back and cover the flanks. Every time Herrera or Pogba gain possession, their only hope is to pass to Fellaini who will lose the ball, OR punt it to an isolated Ibrah because there are NO wide players bombing forwaard because they're far to busy hanging with the full-backs! If you're one of those players, you either don't believe in the tactics or you're just not used to playing them. When that happens, ofcourse you become clueless and indifferent.
 
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Treble said:
Honest criticism but I think you're wrong about homegrown local lads. Firstly, the four other teams you've quoted as being better than us atm - City, Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal. How many of them are consistently putting out more local lads or youth players into the 1st team than United (even under Mourinho, LVG and Moyes)??

Secondly we have at least 2 local lads who are playing plenty of games.

My final point is probably the most important. Have a look at Mata's face, Pogba's, Blind's, Martial's, Herrera's at the end of the game against Chelsea. Mata in particular was completely ****ed off. The problem isn't that these players are playing. The problem is these players are NOT playing. Starting the likes of Fellaini in midfield (or Rooney in midfield) before these guys, as they watch from the bench, must be soul destroying. And yet our two games prior to the loss against Chelsea - who were our stand out performers? Mata and Herrera.

The 1st half performance against CFC was gutless, I won't argue there. The players looked clueless and indifferent. But imagine you're playing with a lumbering oaf like Fellaini who offers absolutely FCK ALL and is being told to go up field and support Ibrah. Then imagine you're Lingard and Rashford being told to stay back and cover the flanks. Every time Herrera or Pogba gain possession, their only hope is to pass to Fellaini who will lose the ball, OR punt it to an isolated Ibrah because there are NO wide players bombing forwaard because they're far to busy hanging with the full-backs! If you're one of those players, you either don't believe in the tactics or you're just not used to playing them. When that happens, ofcourse you become clueless and indifferent.
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But but but Jose promised he would honour United's attacking traditions. He PROMISED!
 
Four tricky games in a short period...

Liverpool - draw
Fenerbache - win
Chelsea - loss
Man City - win

Ofcourse we could've bitched and moaned about such a fixture list like some clubs and managers <whistle> but in the grand scheme of things, is that a reasonable return? I have to say the results aren't as bad, but the performances are what's letting us down atm.
 
Treble said:
Four tricky games in a short period...

Liverpool - draw
Fenerbache - win
Chelsea - loss
Man City - win

Ofcourse we could've bitched and moaned about such a fixture list like some clubs and managers <whistle> but in the grand scheme of things, is that a reasonable return? I have to say the results aren't as bad, but the performances are what's letting us down atm.
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If we hadn't literally given 4 goals away on Sunday that would not be a bad set of results.

God help the rest when we are not spiralling down in crisis anymore, if we just level off or (god forbid) improve we could actually contend for something <yikes>
 
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Diego said:
If we hadn't literally given 4 goals away on Sunday that would not be a bad set of results.

God help the rest when we are not spiralling down in crisis anymore, if we just level off or (god forbid) improve we could actually contend for something <yikes>
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We need to build momentum, even if it's with some ugly wins early on so we build confidence in the players and a winning mentality. This is a quality squad but far too inconsistent. Ultimately I want the performances, but I don't think they're capable of that until they're settled.

We've got a reasonably good run coming up. I just hope Mourinho has them motivated and up for every game. If we can get to xmas with a team full of confidence and finally linking up with each other, we'll go into the new year contending for something.
 
Treble said:
We need to build momentum, even if it's with some ugly wins early on so we build confidence in the players and a winning mentality. This is a quality squad but far too inconsistent. Ultimately I want the performances, but I don't think they're capable of that until they're settled.

We've got a reasonably good run coming up. I just hope Mourinho has them motivated and up for every game. If we can get to xmas with a team full of confidence and finally linking up with each other, we'll go into the new year contending for something.
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Any views on Schneiderlin tonight, I thought he looked a lot better than he has so far but was high alongside Pogba much of the time. That was a good chance for Pogba to drop deeper and run onto the ball more but it didn't happen.
Morgan got stuck in, won and intercepted the ball a fair bit and his retention and passing was far better than it has been, maybe his confidence is coming back or maybe City were just weak.
 
Diego said:
Any views on Schneiderlin tonight, I thought he looked a lot better than he has so far but was high alongside Pogba much of the time. That was a good chance for Pogba to drop deeper and run onto the ball more but it didn't happen.
Morgan got stuck in, won and intercepted the ball a fair bit and his retention and passing was far better than it has been, maybe his confidence is coming back or maybe City were just weak.
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It was a cameo for the last 20 mins iirc. I agree, he was too far forward and I felt him and Pogba ended up far too close to each other down that left side for some reason. I was just glad to see him getting game time. One more reason why Fellaini should not be playing. I'm hoping the good news from playing him tonight was Mourinho intends to play him against Burnley. Carrick won't be playing so he has every chance.
 
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Treble said:
We need to build momentum, even if it's with some ugly wins early on so we build confidence in the players and a winning mentality. This is a quality squad but far too inconsistent. Ultimately I want the performances, but I don't think they're capable of that until they're settled.

We've got a reasonably good run coming up. I just hope Mourinho has them motivated and up for every game. If we can get to xmas with a team full of confidence and finally linking up with each other, we'll go into the new year contending for something.
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<laugh>
 
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