Off Topic Politics Thread

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ImpSaint said:
Nothing to do with our EU exit. We were blocking the tariffs thinking we would remain in. I was merely bringing up that the very companies that are trying to threaten the government over an EU exit are the same companies the government was trying to help by blocking tariffs. Once we leave and the tariffs are not blocked anymore (in the EU minus UK) where will these carmakers, aerospace manufacturers etc. go?

Politics is a fine balance and when the Steel Crisis hit I said this. A long way before the referendum. Scroll back a thousand of my posts and it will be somewhere. The government at the time had to choose between protecting 400,000+ jobs in steel dependent sectors with the <50,000 in steel production.

Most of these carmakers refuse to list how much British Steel they use. One did and it was 40%.
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You are screwed either way. Impose tariffs on steel and manufacturers will go where supply is cheaper.

Let cheap steel in, you screw over steel workers. And EU can refuse to buy your manufactured goods anyway. Especially if you insist on paying high wages which renders products not cheap despite the cheap supply of base material.

It will have to be carefully managed, or it will be a disaster. And even if managed correctly, you will still lose money.

But there are more important things than money. There are countries with less GDP and less GDP per capita than you that seem happy.

These UKIP/BREXIT/Tory types have sold you a fake bill of goods. You will not be economically stronger without EU. You will be weaker.

This is a cultural decision. People will be paid too much to make stuff, and consumers will pay too much to buy it. That is very inefficient. But the money stays in the country. How much will you pay to preserve "British culture?"
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
You are screwed either way. Impose tariffs on steel and manufacturers will go where supply is cheaper.

Let cheap steel in, you screw over steel workers. And EU can refuse to buy your manufactured goods anyway. Especially if you insist on paying high wages which renders products not cheap despite the cheap supply of base material.

It will have to be carefully managed, or it will be a disaster. And even if managed correctly, you will still lose money.

But there are more important things than money. There are countries with less GDP and less GDP per capita than you that seem happy.

These UKIP/BREXIT/Tory types have sold you a fake bill of goods. You will not be economically stronger without EU. You will be weaker.

This is a cultural decision. People will be paid too much to make stuff, and consumers will pay too much to buy it. That is very inefficient. But the money stays in the country. How much will you pay to preserve "British culture?"
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We aren;t paying to "preserve British Culture" we just want an equal chance without all the bigwigs sticking to the corporate line at our expense and that includes backing them up for cheap labour.

With the pound now low labour got a lot cheaper anyway so these companies have another advantage there.
 
A fair days work for a fair days pay should be one of the pillars of the social contract in any civilised society. The idea that it is acceptable to pay people starvation wages because that's what the market dictates or allows needs binning; in the end that sort of race to the bottom benefits no one - not the consumer (who is usually himself an employee), not the decent employer who is undercut by the bad, not the worker, and not the wider society that must pay the cost of widening inequality.
 
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ImpSaint said:
We aren;t paying to "preserve British Culture" we just want an equal chance without all the bigwigs sticking to the corporate line at our expense and that includes backing them up for cheap labour.
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You're definitely trying to preserve British Culture, because you're turning down cheap steel and cheap labor, and what was actually a pretty amazing deal you were getting in the EU. Pretty sure you aren't doing it for the French or Chinese or US.

But yeah, that's the bill of goods they sold you. And believing it is why you all messed up so bad. Why should anyone give you an "equal chance" rather than exploiting their competitive advantage?

No one wants British steel, and no one wants British labor. China will easily undercut you and everyone else in both areas. And if countries don't buy from China it will be because we are having to prop up our own failing steel industries and overpriced labor.

What gives China an advantage is they are not overly concerned with human rights or the environment. If you want a "fair" competition, then get rid of labor laws and let kids work 70 hours a week in sweatshops for pennies. Ask some poor person in China, or India or in a developing country if UK citizens are getting the short end of the stick. Pretty sure they will say no.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
You're definitely trying to preserve British Culture, because you're turning down cheap steel and cheap labor, and what was actually a pretty amazing deal you were getting in the EU. Pretty sure you aren't doing it for the French or Chinese or US.

But yeah, that's the bill of goods they sold you. And believing it is why you all messed up so bad. Why should anyone give you an "equal chance" rather than exploiting their competitive advantage?

No one wants British steel, and no one wants British labor. China will easily undercut you and everyone else in both areas. And if countries don't buy from China it will be because we are having to prop up our own failing steel industries and overpriced labor.

What gives China an advantage is they are not overly concerned with human rights or the environment. If you want a "fair" competition, then get rid of labor laws and let kids work 70 hours a week in sweatshops for pennies. Ask some poor person in China, or India or in a developing country if UK citizens are getting the short end of the stick. Pretty sure they will say no.
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You've gone on one there without understanding what I was saying. I know that UK labour is pretty expensive compared to places like China however Nissan in Sunderland is one of Renault's most profitable sites. Much more profitable than Renault's French factories.

And if you have been reading I was saying that the British government were blocking Chinese steel tariffs. Yes it put British jobs in steel at risk but then it benefits us in other areas. You are missing my point entirely because you want to go on with your global agenda.

The EU want to put tariffs on steel. The British didn't. How you can completely ignore the EU being a protectionist racket and then accuse Britain of being so is beyond me.

And yes I want British people to be able to get a crap job at crap wages with at least some confidence that they might be considered rather than be ignored because of their nationality. I don't think we are going to be importing sandwiches or eggs from China any time soon so I am pretty confident that our labour being more expensive than China is not going to affect jobs in food production over here.

I think the Trump risk has scrambled your brain a little if you think the EU is some cosy family club. It is a massive protectionist racket that facilitates the larger and stronger countries remaining so and stripping the smaller weaker ones of their talent and potential.

All I want is for British people to have an equal chance in their own country. I am not asking for equality with China. Think a little when you read. Trump is getting to you and you seem a bit touchy.
 
ImpSaint said:
You've gone on one there without understanding what I was saying. I know that UK labour is pretty expensive compared to places like China however Nissan in Sunderland is one of Renault's most profitable sites. Much more profitable than Renault's French factories.

And if you have been reading I was saying that the British government were blocking Chinese steel tariffs. Yes it put British jobs in steel at risk but then it benefits us in other areas. You are missing my point entirely because you want to go on with your global agenda.

The EU want to put tariffs on steel. The British didn't. How you can completely ignore the EU being a protectionist racket and then accuse Britain of being so is beyond me.

And yes I want British people to be able to get a crap job at crap wages with at least some confidence that they might be considered rather than be ignored because of their nationality. I don't think we are going to be importing sandwiches or eggs from China any time soon so I am pretty confident that our labour being more expensive than China is not going to affect jobs in food production over here.

I think the Trump risk has scrambled your brain a little if you think the EU is some cosy family club. It is a massive protectionist racket that facilitates the larger and stronger countries remaining so and stripping the smaller weaker ones of their talent and potential.

All I want is for British people to have an equal chance in their own country. I am not asking for equality with China. Think a little when you read. Trump is getting to you and you seem a bit touchy.
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What I want is for all human beings to have an equal chance, artificial borders equal artificial arguments. Why do you promote protectionist bollocks, and I quote 'All I want is for British people to have an equal chance in their own country'. Lets keep those immigrants out especially the ones who work harder that we do.. I despair, shallow arguments.. see the bigger picture and you might just see the bigger issues!!!!!!!!!!
 
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I want all human beings to have an equal chance but this is not La La Land. I am British and I want British people to have an equal chance in Britain. I also want British people to be trained up so that other countries can hang on to their doctors, nurses, teachers and scientists.

You seem to be thinking that we will give equal chances to people as long as they come to the richer countries and who cares about the countries they are from. How does that ever give all people an equal chance?

I am married to an immigrant. Why is it so hard to comprehend that it is not a crime to look after yourself first? And why talk about protectionist rackets when this policy of stripping weaker countries of their skills is exactly that?

We are going to end up with all the Brits on welfare and non Brits doing the jobs. Are you OK with that?

Personally I would prefer a government that dished out a bit of tough love and woke up the British people that don't work hard and said "you will have to work hard."

However to do that you have to then make the employers follow the equal opportunities act which they don't do at the moment when they ignore British workers.

I love your utopian view but it is just not reality. Maybe one day it will be but it isn't going to happen at the moment.

What is your solution? Stick us all on benefit and tell us to stop moaning? Very nice.

Maybe we should work towards getting rid of currency and start a world of communism? What other options are there for every one in the world to have an equal chance and be treated equally?
 
I'm the son of an immigrant, it's not a qualification, it is what it is. Do unto others... Look after yourself so that you can look after others. The more you complicate it the more you play the game you criticise... you know paying your taxes to feed the rich.. Go back to your philosophical beliefs, your code for life and see if it fits with the opinions you espouse. I don't reach my ideals, but I keep trying.. and you don't have to be a communist. You have to be kind, objective and a tad intelligent. Sorry if it sounds patronising but I can't put it more succinctly.
 
Whatever. I'm done with this forum. Full of sanctimonious, self righteous people who couldn't care less about their fellow Brits as long as their cosy lives are OK.

We are all called Jack to most of you but then you're allright so why would any of you care.

p.s. I am the son of an immigrant seeing as my Dad is Irish and I am married to a Portuguese lady. Does anyone care? Nope. Just keep painting everybody you disagree with if it makes you happy.
 
ImpSaint said:
Why is it so hard to comprehend that it is not a crime to look after yourself first?
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It's not a crime to look after yourself first.

And of course the EU is a protectionist racket. It's a protectionist racket that is supposed to be protecting the UK as one of its members. If you don't think it's doing it's job in looking out for your interests, then get out. As I've said before, I'm not in the EU and I would not want the US to join the EU nor would they have us. So not, it's not one big happy global community out here. I'd like it to be someday, but there's only so much any of us will stick our necks out to make it happen.

Just don't say you want Brexit because the EU is exploiting the weak, and then in the next breath say you want immigrants on welfare (or perhaps out of the country) and UK citizens to have their jobs instead.
 
ImpSaint said:
Whatever. I'm done with this forum. Full of sanctimonious, self righteous people who couldn't care less about their fellow Brits as long as their cosy lives are OK.

We are all called Jack to most of you but then you're allright so why would any of you care.

p.s. I am the son of an immigrant seeing as my Dad is Irish and I am married to a Portuguese lady. Does anyone care? Nope. Just keep painting everybody you disagree with if it makes you happy.
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Imps don't talk bollocks,plenty of room for some more sanctimonious feckers nowhere near full.<laugh>
Anyway we quite enjoy reading some of your posts,so just have a beer now and again then come back firing!
 
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TheSecondStain said:
Nor me.

Personally, I felt it was inevitable. The decision to go with Heathrow, I mean. They'll end up putting one in at Gatwick anyway, eventually.

Whether it actually comes to pass is another story.
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Yeah Gatwick is getting one as well according to a few articles.
 
Beefy said:
Yeah Gatwick is getting one as well according to a few articles.
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There you go. All it is going to take is for someone to have the balls to put the money aside. And that's where the real stumbling block will occur. Let's face it, GB never properly invests**. Everything is done on a shoestring. Famous for it. It's why we screw things up so often.

** The London Olympics were properly invested. Guess what, best Olympics ever.
 
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