Transfer Rumours The Summer Transfer Rumour Thread 2016

[Osvaldorama]

Ok, this is just my take on it.

I think there is a massive difference between the 3CB lineup and the diamond we are now playing.
The 3CB formation gave the defence a very solid central core, with all three being, more or less in a straight line and within 10m of each other, with the wider CBs being able to cover the space behind the FBs, fully in the knowledge that the central CB was covering them and the middle.
Plus it had TWO defensive midfielders ahead of it, making the whole system simple to operate.

The new diamond formation gives us a defensive lineup that is effectively a W formation, (full of gaps if not operated correctly, or if there is a turnover in possession when the FBs have pushed upfield - see the move leading to the Sunderland penalty and the Man Utd first goal).
The Puel diamond sees the 2FBs push high up the pitch (on both sides, not just the side where the ball is), the 2CBs play further apart than they would in a normal 442 or 433, and the ONE defensive midfielder is supposed to sit slightly ahead of the CBs, but dropping in between them, should one of them get pulled wide.

There are so many things that can go wrong with this formation, when players are unsure of it, which is why I said yesterday (somewhere) that the key for me is how the CBs work as a unit with the defensive midfielder. Even if those 3 do work as a unit, the wider midfielders, need to fill any gaps through the middle, when the defensive midfielder drops into the defence, or when Romeu gets drawn out of position by chasing the man on the ball.

As I say above, just my take on it. It might work well, with the right person at the base of the diamond, and given time. For all the complaints we have had to come from behind twice, meaning that teams that are happy to defend deep are doing so. It would be good to see how effective the system could be, after taking the lead, forcing teams to defend less deeply and attack us.
My personal preference, given that I am an insecure football fan, who doesn't like change, would be 4231 or the 3CB option.

Great analysis, spot on. I'm with you - at the moment it feels like change just for change's sake. Our players fit nicely into the old system, and we are wasting points whilst trying to find our defensive balance.
For me, it's a bad sign that Puel persisted with only one DM away at Old Trafford.
That game was crying out for us to go and be difficult to break down.

 

[fatletiss]

I think we need to be tolerant of opinions here without accusing people of bedwetting etc. However optimistic you are, do you not have an ominous sense of uneasiness given the last 2 home performances?

I'm patient and generally a pragmatist but I really really don't like what I've seen on the pitch and what I've heard from him in interviews and pressers so far. I really was up for Puel on the basis that I loved the high press, but we are playing forwards in the channels, have no focal point to press upfront and are allowing opposition the freedom of St Mary's to build attacks. That's the biggest disappointment to me. I had hoped he would be MoPo MKII and sounds like that's what the club based their search on and that is not what we've had so far. Fingers crossed that changes pretty quickly but of course he must be given a chance.

I'll say it again....

Yes of course, but it's the manner of the moaning or worrying.

 

[Romsey_Saint]

All I hope is that the management team take a long hard look at the formations/tactics we will adopt going forwards during the international weekend and come back with something more effective than we currently have. We have played three games - scored only twice against, on paper, inferior teams - whatever your views on players or formations - it needs fixing. I believe there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the team management, but we have a manager that needs time to adjust to the EPL but he does need to make the best use of this small window of opportunity to make improvements.

As for two new players mentioned - two does not sound enough to me but we have run out of time so lets just hope they add some quality to us going forwards into the final third as, from what I have seen, we do need it.

 

[sotonsaint]

I'll say it again....

Yes of course, but it's the manner of the moaning of worrying.

I don't think it's moaning or worrying , it's just a matter of why? Everyone can see the problem apart from the one person who's apparently the most qualified to do it out of everyone according to Saints.

 

[fatletiss]

I don't think it's moaning or worrying , it's just a matter of why? Everyone can see the problem apart from the one person who's apparently the most qualified to do it out of everyone according to Saints.

I wouldn't expect you to understand me Sotonsaint as you and I sit on different ends of the positivity spectrum. I read a subject posted and you may not realise it, but you always seem to take a negative stance, even from a positive thing.

 

[SouthamptonFCroatia]

Les once said that our future manager must follow the same playing philosophy as the club and that in that way we don't need to make wholesale changes and so that the transition passes smoothly.


Than we bring on a manager who play 4-4-2 diamond. A bit odd.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I'll say it again....

Yes of course, but it's the manner of the moaning of worrying.

I'm with you in being positive, but I can understand the negativity.
I think a lot of people believed that we would keep the team together and push on this season, there was a lot of excitement. With Koeman going, it feels like a massive backward step for the players to be adjusting to a new system.
We were only 3points off CL last year, we've already dropped 4 that we conceivably should have gained.

 

[SaintsForTheWin]

Who's coming in next?

 

[Romsey_Saint]

Who's coming in next?

I heard we turned away Messi because of his tax-dodging antics (very Un-Saintly) and I understand Kat is a veggie so Suarez did not get a look-in...

 

[sotonsaint]

I wouldn't expect you to understand me Sotonsaint as you and I sit on different ends of the positivity spectrum. I read a subject posted and you may not realise it, but you always seem to take a negative stance, even from a positive thing.

Just the way I am FLT.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

Les once said that our future manager must follow the same playing philosophy as the club and that in that way we don't need to make wholesale changes and so that the transition passes smoothly.


Than we bring on a manager who play 4-4-2 diamond. A bit odd.

Managers can use more the one formation. Just because that's what has been used in the first 3 games, doesn't mean it is the only formation Puel can/will use. Give it time.

 

[saintrichie123]

Chambers off to Middlesbrough on season long loan according to "sky sources "

 

[st_brendy]

I'm with you in being positive, but I can understand the negativity.
I think a lot of people believed that we would keep the team together and push on this season, there was a lot of excitement. With Koeman going, it feels like a massive backward step for the players to be adjusting to a new system.
We were only 3points off CL last year, we've already dropped 4 that we conceivably should have gained.

And that is it, in a nutshell.

It is far, far too early to be talking about the manager's future. Ridiculous. But it is not too early to be annoyed, angry, frustrated, and yes negative, about these dropped points. I keep on saying it, a season is 38 games long not 34 or 35. We may yet follow suit from the previous two seasons and turn things right around. We may yet, for the fourth season running, finish in the top eight. But even it that does happen - and I think most people would be honest and accept that, particularly given European football and how much the big teams have strengthen this summer, doing that is going to be very difficult for us - I can pretty much guarantee you that we'd have finished at least one place further up the table with these extra four points.

The difference between a whole season's work resulting in CL football or EL football, or EL football or no EL football, or top ten or bottom ten, really can come down to the outcome of just a couple of games, such are the fine margins.

Fortunately, I said to myself before a ball was kicked that I would happily take us finishing down in, say 10th or 11th, if we won a cup or had a great run in Europe. And these dropped points do not, obviously, prevent the latter from happening.

 

[fatletiss]

I'm with you in being positive, but I can understand the negativity.
I think a lot of people believed that we would keep the team together and push on this season, there was a lot of excitement. With Koeman going, it feels like a massive backward step for the players to be adjusting to a new system.
We were only 3points off CL last year, we've already dropped 4 that we conceivably should have gained.

Any Saints fan thinking we were going to keep the team together doesnt really want to see what's going on. It was clear Vic was going. Pelle was either going to stay for one more year or go (he wasn't getting a new contract). Mane wasn't quite so obvious but there had been noises in January about him.

The thing for me is this: what's happened has happened (Koeman going in particular), so we either carry on moaning about it, or we take stock and realise that there is a new start and with that comes the possibility of some changes and some slowing downs on things like transfer plans (people not expecting that and complaining that we didn't get transfers done early I really belief are being unfair and unrealistic).

Yes, I'd wanted Koeman to sign a new deal and carry on with where we were heading, but life throws stuff at us. We deal with them as they come up and to be going on about a slow start and dropped points, not getting transfers in quick enough, etc, etc to me seems a waste of energy and unrealistic given the circumstances of what has happened.

The thing is that bad times bring certain types of people out of the woodwork. I get a lot of stick and questions about letting people have their opinions. I actually do. I am just entitled to question them, however as it happens if these people stopped to actually read my posts, they may see that I haven't exactly been positive about our performance this weekend. I just deal with problems differently I suppose.

 

[hotbovril]

The craziest thing about the fans reaction to the formation is that it has been three games and they were complaining after one game! Any manager who plays a new formation and changes it after one or two games clearly wouldn't have confidence in his own players or his ability to coach them. I have ducked out of the formation debate to date as I'll only upset people, but it is laughable that people expected him to change it so quickly. Has anybody done anything new in life and stopped doing it because it didn't work first or second time?? For goodness sake!

What Puel has to do is find that fine line between Robert Burns' spider and Einstein's comments on banging your head.

.

The craziest thing about the fans reaction to the formation is that it has been three games and they were complaining after one game! Any manager who plays a new formation and changes it after one or two games clearly wouldn't have confidence in his own players or his ability to coach them. I have ducked out of the formation debate to date as I'll only upset people, but it is laughable that people expected him to change it so quickly. Has anybody done anything new in life and stopped doing it because it didn't work first or second time?? For goodness sake!

What Puel has to do is find that fine line between Robert Burns' spider and Einstein's comments on banging your head.

I have all sorts of witty comebacks to this but let's just keep it to football - No. I wouldn't expect a professional football manager to give up on a poorly considered and poorly executed formation after just a few matches. I'd fully expect them to change it at half time in the very first match! This is not a kickabout in the park. It's not a training session. It's the Premier League. It's hundreds of millions of pounds and our livelihood. If the man has four or five formations up his sleeve, let's use one that will work with our squad and save the diamond for training, not vice versa.

 

[fatletiss]

Just the way I am FLT.

And I'm just the way I am... But apparently it's more annoying to deliver a positive message, or try and see the flip side of a negative one.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

.


I have all sorts of witty comebacks to this but let's just keep it to football - No. I wouldn't expect a professional football manager to give up on a poorly considered and poorly executed formation after just a few matches. I'd fully expect them to change it at half time in the very first match! This is not a kickabout in the park. It's not a training session. It's the Premier League. It's hundreds of millions of pounds and our livelihood. If the man has four or five formations up his sleeve, let's use one that will work with our squad and save the diamond for training, not vice versa.

But just because the formation didn't work in 45 minutes, that isn't to say it will never work. I don't like the diamond at all, but if we practise it then the players may learn how to play it. It's not just about getting the points in the next game you play, sometimes you must look at the long term in order to achieve success.

 

[SaintinNZ]

im having a hard time understanding why some fans expect things to be better than last season. We don't have Koeman anymore, we are not the same squad as last season. The club appointed a new manager to take the team forwards, it's taking longer than I would have liked for them to get to grips with new tactics but for crying out loud, he's a new manager. Not Mopo or the ginger loyalist. Why not let him do his thing. We may end up worse than last season but you know what, whatever formation we play that could well be the case anyway.

If you're really pissed off about the formation and not winning games ask yourself what you would be complaining about if we stuck with 4231 and still didn't win three in a row. Chances are you could just look back at the middle of the last two seasons and find out.

It's football. Personally, I'm pleased we've got a manager who wants to create something good here, in another world we could have Allardyce.

 

[West Kent Saint]

im having a hard time understanding why some fans expect things to be better than last season. We don't have Koeman anymore, we are not the same squad as last season. The club appointed a new manager to take the team forwards, it's taking longer than I would have liked for them to get to grips with new tactics but for crying out loud, he's a new manager. Not Mopo or the ginger loyalist. Why not let him do his thing. We may end up worse than last season but you know what, whatever formation we play that could well be the case anyway.

If you're really pissed off about the formation and not winning games ask yourself what you would be complaining about if we stuck with 4231 and still didn't win three in a row. Chances are you could just look back at the middle of the last two seasons and find out.

It's football. Personally, I'm pleased we've got a manager who wants to create something good here, in another world we could have Allardyce.

Allardyce

 

[Osvaldorama]

I'm not being negative at all, it's plain honesty to say that everything I've seen so far this season points to us getting the basics wrong tactically:

- Tadic and Redmond should are best on the wings
- Romeu and Clasie are best in a Pivot
- The back four lacks protection
- The ball doesn't stick up front in this system

My guess is it will improve, but the point of forum is to discuss this stuff. I like the tactical discussions on here. What's the point of a football forum if we just say "the manager is 100% correct every game"