Match Day Thread UTD V Southampton Bland free matchday thread

[cytrax]

See this is just bizarre to me. Why would you replace Rooney with Rashford when they play completely different positions and Martial, who plays the same position as Rashford, has been our worse player thus far this season?

Either some of our fans don't watch the games, or they watch them through this weird obsessive bias that means they can only see what Rooney does wrong whilst ignoring the rest of the team.

I would hope Mourinho would take Rooney and Martial out of the team at some point in the next few weeks, hopefully allowing Mata a go at 10 and Lingard, Rashford and Micky more time on the pitch. But not by shoehorning Rashford in at 10 just to get rid of Rooney!

What's the obsession with playing just one up front? This whole conversation about number 10 when the guy that plays there actually slows down the pace of games. I don't see how we can't have Zlatan as advanced striker and Rashford just behind him. It would actually speed up play up front and get the ball to Zlatan quicker than playing Rooney in that position.

That is not shoehorning Rashford to the team, but building a team around the best players/prospects.

 

[Swarbs]

Treble, how are you feeling about Fellaini so far? As I've said in the past, his value comes from the fact that he gets A for effort most of the time and he has a presence about him. And I see Mourinho sees that in him and starting to use that energy effectively. His lack of skills will be mitigated by arrival of Pogba in midfield, I think.

I've been impressed with Fellaini, but also with Mourinho's management of him. Moyes seemed to buy him without any clear idea of what to do, and LVG seemed to think he could turn Fellaini into Pirlo!

I think he's thriving with Mourinho giving him a clear role in the team, encouraging him to put himself about a bit more and disrupt the opposition play whilst giving him simple outlets. As long as he doesn't have to think too far ahead or worry more about doing the simple things he's fine. Although I do hope in the long term we get a player with a bit more to give going forwards if we are going to persist with two in midfield - I think Fellaini will struggle in that role against better sides.

 

[Swarbs]

What's the obsession with playing just one up front? This whole conversation about number 10 when the guy that plays there actually slows down the pace of games. I don't see how we can't have Zlatan as advanced striker and Rashford just behind him. It would actually speed up play up front and get the ball to Zlatan quicker than playing Rooney in that position.

That is not shoehorning Rashford to the team, but building a team around the best players/prospects.

Yes it is! Rashford has never played as a second striker in his life. And now you want to stick him in that role just to get him in the team. That's the definition of shoehorning!

If Rashford is to play, then he should play in his best position, either cutting in from out wide or up front. I could see an argument for him playing up front with Zlatan as second striker, but that would take Zlatan off the front line at a time when he's scoring for fun. But it's a good option to have if Zlatan goes through a bare patch at some point this season.

 

[cytrax]

Yes it is! Rashford has never played as a second striker in his life. And now you want to stick him in that role just to get him in the team. That's the definition of shoehorning!

If Rashford is to play, then he should play in his best position, either cutting in from out wide or up front. I could see an argument for him playing up front with Zlatan as second striker, but that would take Zlatan off the front line at a time when he's scoring for fun. But it's a good option to have if Zlatan goes through a bare patch at some point this season.

Rashford is 18! You're making it out like he has been playing at the highest level for 10 years.

 

[Swarbs]

Rashford is 18! You're making it out like he has been playing at the highest level for 10 years.

He's been playing for our youth teams for 11 years as an out and out striker. But let's just chuck all that out the window and turn him to a second striker so you can get your wish about getting rid of Rooney

 

[cytrax]

He's been playing for our youth teams for 11 years as an out and out striker. But let's just chuck all that out the window and turn him to a second striker so you can get your wish about getting rid of Rooney

The point is, there are players in the team that can do far better job than Rooney offers in that position. Rashford is also not your typical striker, hence why Jose has played him on the wings in number of matches. He has the skills and ball control to play across the front line.

 

[Chief]

Rashford is a striker or a winger/wide attacker.

He is never in a million years a 'No. 10'. At all. Nor will he ever be.

Timothy Fosu Mensah is only 18, let's stick him at No.10 too. Heaven forbid we pigeon hole such a player, him having always been a defender is completely irrelevant.

I also love, for want of a better word, how LVG gets the blame for how the team performed last season and the season before, except when it comes to Rooney.

The way he and the team played was completely down to Rooney then.

(this rule also applies to Bastian Schweinsteiger)

 

[cytrax]

Rashford is a striker or a winger/wide attacker.

He is never in a million years a 'No. 10'. At all. Nor will he ever be.

Timothy Fosu Mensah is only 18, let's stick him at No.10 too. Heaven forbid we pigeon hole such a player, him having always been a defender is completely irrelevant.

I also love, for want of a better word, how LVG gets the blame for how the team performed last season and the season before, except when it comes to Rooney.

The way he and the team played was completely down to Rooney then.

(this rule also applies to Bastian Schweinsteiger)

Comparing Fosu Mensah playing behind a striker to Rashford? How is that even logical for the sake of the argument? But to twist your thinking on its head, Gareth Bale started at left back. Yet played his last season at Tottenham as a 10. Today at Madrid, he is classed as between 9 and 10 or a false 9. Essentially he gets the freedom to roam.

Rashford has enough on ball skill, control and vision to succeed as a No. 10. His linkup play is also exceptional. So yes, playing as 10 or false 9 would not be alien to him.

As for LvG being the man to blame for Rooney's decline; please! That is clutching at straws at its finest.

 

[Treble]

Comparing Fosu Mensah playing behind a striker to Rashford? How is that even logical for the sake of the argument? But to twist your thinking on its head, Gareth Bale started at left back. Yet played his last season at Tottenham as a 10. Today at Madrid, he is classed as between 9 and 10 or a false 9. Essentially he gets the freedom to roam.

Rashford has enough on ball skill, control and vision to succeed as a No. 10. His linkup play is also exceptional. So yes, playing as 10 or false 9 would not be alien to him.

As for LvG being the man to blame for Rooney's decline; please! That is clutching at straws at its finest.

He really can't mate.

As for LvG, nobody is blaming him solely for his decline. But he certainly accelerated it. Rooney is way past his peak, both physically and technically and his game is in decline. But with the managers we've had, their style and so-called feelosophy, the last three years have been crippling for Rooney imo. He won't recover from it given his age.

 

[Chief]

Gareth Bale played left wing in his last season at Spurs. Which is just up the pitch from left back.

My sarcastic idea of moving Fosu Mensah into a position both completely unsuited and alien to him is clearly lost on you.

 

[Swarbs]

He really can't mate.

As for LvG, nobody is blaming him solely for his decline. But he certainly accelerated it. Rooney is way past his peak, both physically and technically and his game is in decline. But with the managers we've had, their style and so-called feelosophy, the last three years have been crippling for Rooney imo. He won't recover from it given his age.

But he's not Rooney, therefore he can.

And as you say, no one is blaming LVG for Rooney's decline. But the simple fact is that LVG spent the last couple of years playing Rooney in CM and it is going to take him time to adjust, same as Herrera has struggled to adapt to a proper CM role and been peripheral in the last few games after LVG stuck him on the wing.

The sad thing is that there are valid replacements for Rooney in the squad, mainly Micky and Mata, who I think will be quite likely to ease Rooney out of the side over the course of the season as they get a chance to embed themselves in the side. But some people are so desperate for Rooney to be out at all costs that they would rather jam an 18 year old into an unfamiliar position and risk his future career in order to immediately dump the most productive player on our team this season after Zlatan.

 

[cytrax]

Gareth Bale played left wing in his last season at Spurs. Which is just up the pitch from left back.

My sarcastic idea of moving Fosu Mensah into a position both completely unsuited and alien to him is clearly lost on you.

No Chief! That is completely inaccurate. He didn't just play right through the middle in his very last season, he become the very focal point for Spurs going forward.

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The sad thing is that there are valid replacements for Rooney in the squad, mainly Micky and Mata, who I think will be quite likely to ease Rooney out of the side over the course of the season as they get a chance to embed themselves in the side. But some people are so desperate for Rooney to be out at all costs that they would rather jam an 18 year old into an unfamiliar position and risk his future career in order to immediately dump the most productive player on our team this season after Zlatan.

I don't see how the word desperation comes into it unless you're describing how he has kept his place in the team over the past year. The argument is simply to build a team based on merit rather than based on entitlement. Earn it, keep your place! The script has been that if Rooney is fit, he plays regardless of his form. This has been detrimental to both England and United over the past 2 years.

 

[Chief]

Yes, that random snapshot of a team at some point in the season against Fulham all too vividly proves your point.

Interesting that Gylfi Siggurdson is in the team also. Who isn't a left winger. Yet does play at 10 behind the striker.

Still, this clearly shows that Bale was not left wing at all so bravo.

 

[Treble]

Look, in short, you need a playmaker (as well as a goalscorer) to be a number 10. Rashford is not a playmaker. Let him develop his craft as a CF or RWF. No disrespect but this is a moot point. Firstly because it's completely unnecessary. And second because no manager, including Mourinho, is going to do it.

 

[Chief]

True. We have Rooney, Mata and Mkhi as ready made playmaker at 10.

Why force an 18 year old striker into that position at this time?

Pointless and unnecessary.

 

[Swarbs]

True. We have Rooney, Mata and Mkhi as ready made playmaker at 10.

Why force an 18 year old striker into that position at this time?

Pointless and unnecessary.

But not at all desperate. Oh no.

 

[cytrax]

Yes, that random snapshot of a team at some point in the season against Fulham all too vividly proves your point.

No, it doesn't prove a point. It is in support of the point that Bale played as No 10 in his last season. He had been moved from left back after his initial seasons. At least try and back up your statement that he played at left back during his last season. But you can't because that point was inaccurate.

True. We have Rooney, Mata and Mkhi as ready made playmaker at 10.

Why force an 18 year old striker into that position at this time?

Pointless and unnecessary.

Come on, Chief! I'm not trying going for sound bites here. I think we are digressing a bit when we put the focal point of the argument on the 18 year old. The point of bringing Rashford to the conversation is that Rooney is not the most effective No. 10 at the club compared to the other option players. Even better, put Pogba at No 10 and play Rashford just behind Zlatan as two strikers. Zlatan in an advance role and Rashford just behind him. I don't see anything extraordinary about that idea in defense of shoehorning Rooney to the team that will need pace with more advanced teams. Not just United, but that is essentially the problem with England as well.

Look, in short, you need a playmaker (as well as a goalscorer) to be a number 10. Rashford is not a playmaker. Let him develop his craft as a CF or RWF. No disrespect but this is a moot point. Firstly because it's completely unnecessary. And second because no manager, including Mourinho, is going to do it.

I would love to see that happen now, Treble. But the only reason why that can't happen is because we must always play Rooney. If we advance the role of Pogba to No 10, Rashford can play the RWF. Playing Rashford as a playmaker is not the solution here. But utilizing better player for No. 10 than Rooey is. This would provide tremendous pace across our attack play but we would need a strong holding midfielder playing next to Pogba to avoid creating gaps.

On the subject of developing the craft; Most of the great players that we have around today didn't learn their trade by sitting on the bench and watching. If we believe that Rashford is as good as we know that he is, we should prioritize playing him in the team over a declining Rooney.

 

[Chief]

I didn't say that.

I said he played left WING during his finals seasons at Spurs. Which he did, so I have no need to back it up.

As for the rest of it well, what can I say? You're now saying Pogba should play at ten, which is complete nonsense mate to be perfectly honest. We pay top dollar for the pre eminent box to box cm in world football, which we've been crying out for since Roy Keane (Irish bloke who used to play for us), and you say play him at ten!

We've just got rid of a manager who played all the players out of position, let's not go back there eh?

 

[Swarbs]

We've just got rid of a manager who played all the players out of position, let's not go back there eh?

But Pogba is better than Rooney at number 10! He's never played there before (attacking midfielder in a three man midfield is not the number 10 role), but he must be better because Rooney baaaaaaad.

So let's play two strikers, one of whom will be out of position, and a number 10 who will also be out of position, leaving us with no width and woefully undermanned at CM, just to get Rooney out the team.

Because Rooney Rooney Rooney Rooney
Do you, do you, do you, do you
Know what you're doing, doing, to me
Rooney Rooney Rooney Rooney!

 

[luvgonzo]

I've stuck Ibra in my fantasy footy team so the goals should dry up now.