Goodbye Jose and......

[SaintinNZ]

I think we're arguing the same point here :s

sorry, wrong quote. yes we are.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Remember after the last meltdown when Les said they were sat inside Saint Mary's/Staplewood laughing saying "What is all the fuss about?", and then we bought Tadic, Pelle, Alderweireld?

Keep the faith folks. I'll be gutted if Fonte goes, as it proves that 100% of footballers are greedy ****ers, not just 95% of them. But the club will be fine.
[HASHTAG]#biglesistheman[/HASHTAG]

 

[Libby]

Don't buy what? You think are players are the only ones worth buying, or the only ones that can be bought?

Eh? Was that in response to me? If so none of that is what I said...

I was agreeing with LTL n saying I don't buy this whole notion of we owe Jose a move

 

[SaintinNZ]

This is a completely disputable post.

Yes, you can dispute it, no question but the evidence is exceptionally strong in support of it.

We have taken steps in the summer to address it, that's my understanding of the new extended contracts but I personally see that as doubling down on a losing hand. Regardless of contract players have been sold to the highest bidder so there's zero reassurance to be had whether they've got 3 years or 6 remaining. The precedent remains that Liverpool, ManU, Chealsea, Arsenal, Barcelona, Roma can come calling, players agents will get a sniff of a mammoth payday and suddenly its all on.

 

[Libby]

Jus read back and seen it could read as I was disagreeing with you LTL..
I certainly wasn't, infact the opposite haha!

 

[SaintinNZ]

We've not been the victims of our own success, we've been the beneficiaries of our own success. The club hasn't changed, he has!

We have been both victim and beneficieries of our success. Who on this board didn't feel weirded out by the Arsenal Liverpool game? Yet last season we finished in a league high. If we hadnt sold we'd have won the league, if we hadn't sold we'd be bankrupt you could argue both sides.

Big question for me is are our players giving it everything for the club or to secure themselves the next big move.

 

[fatletiss]

Yeah I am and of course Mendez doesn't he isn't an athlete! Not comparable to a player in any way, shape or form.

Money is a factor don't get me wrong, but athletes want to be the best they can and in football that means competing for major trophies. The fact we've only won 1 in our 131 year means players will see it as unlikely to happen here. Espescially compared to the clubs they've left for.

At the end of the day every player we've lost since Summer '14 has either been to a club in the CL or one of the 2 biggest clubs in the country - United & Liverpool.

Do you really think if we'd offered Adam, Morgan & Sadio (for example) the same amount of money Liverpool and United they suddenly would have changed their mind and wanted to stay? Like **** they would have!

Sorry flt but if you really think that sporting ambition and wanting to win trophies playing at the highest level doesn't factor into a professional athletes decision then we're going to have to agree to disagree

Take your last line.... You are now saying "factor in." I haven't said it doesn't, but you said it isn't the money!

And your opening comment about Mendez not being an athlete really tells me you have completely missed the importance of his role. He isn't thinking about anything other than money and he IS Jose's representative. How big a difference is there for him if Jose stays compared to if he leaves?

 

[doritoharv]

Firstly, I'd be very disappointed to see Fonte leave but ...

Football is predominantly a knee-jerk reaction business because any club can come calling and a player may leave. What stands Saints apart from others is that we're constantly prepared for it and have replacements lined up (rather than settling for a panic buy).

We rave about Van Dijk yet he was the next in line because the Alderweireld deal didn't happen. Would we have signed either if Lovren had stayed? Probably one of them with the aim of replacing an ageing Fonte. Considering that, I suspect Saints have another Ace (maybe even only a King!) up their sleeve.

It does hurt to watch all this happen but at the end of the day, we can't stop it, so I'm just glad that we have a board that seem fairly well prepared for these situations as I feel our board will produce the best out of a tough scenario.

 

[fatletiss]

We are the only team that leak players like we do. It's not because we are the only team with players worth buying, it's because we blood players and teams above us know that we more than likely sell and don't make it very difficult for the buyers

We do often make it difficult. You are choosing to not see that at this moment in time, that is all. I understand that as it's an emotional situation.

 

[fatletiss]

Yes, you can dispute it, no question but the evidence is exceptionally strong in support of it.

We have taken steps in the summer to address it, that's my understanding of the new extended contracts but I personally see that as doubling down on a losing hand. Regardless of contract players have been sold to the highest bidder so there's zero reassurance to be had whether they've got 3 years or 6 remaining. The precedent remains that Liverpool, ManU, Chealsea, Arsenal, Barcelona, Roma can come calling, players agents will get a sniff of a mammoth payday and suddenly its all on.

It's the fact that you give your opinion as fact. It's not, it's your opinion.

Even reading this post above and "doubling down on a losing hand" just tells me more about your approach and half full glass tha anything else. Amazing that a positive thing can be turned into a negative.

 

[Osvaldorama]

We do often make it difficult. You are choosing to not see that at this moment in time, that is all. I understand that as it's an emotional situation.

Whilst I am completely calm, and waiting to see what happens, I read someone earlier say;
"If Payet played for saints, after the euro's he just had, he would already be gone."
Which is a fair point. We don't make it as difficult as we should IMO. (Mané).
Naturally, the counter point to that is: we finished above West Ham, and may well do again judging on tonight's performance.
Really, it's a case of wait and see who we bring in. I will melt down if we end the window and haven't signed anyone. But that won't happen.

 

[Libby]

Take your last line.... You are now saying "factor in." I haven't said it doesn't, but you said it isn't the money!

And your opening comment about Mendez not being an athlete really tells me you have completely missed the importance of his role. He isn't thinking about anything other than money and he IS Jose's representative. How big a difference is there for him if Jose stays compared to if he leaves?

Your post I quoted said 'it's all about the money' that's the main thing I disputed. So do you think Morgan, Adam & Sadio would have stayed had we offered the same money?

I said I think money is a factor but I don't believe for a second it's the main one. If I was a professional footballer and I thought I was good enough then I'd rather play for Real Madrid than say, Athletic Bilbao, regardless of the money.

I did miss the Mendez point at first and realise what you mean there now

I need to go to bed anyway, up at 5 and this has already kept me up later than intended. I just can't help keeping picking the phone back up

Will reply more tomorrow.

 

[fatletiss]

Here is a question for those wishing to see this as a negative against the Board rather than a negative against Jose Fonte (as I will if he leaves):

Why did he change his agent and appoint Mendez?

Why in the last 12 months (during which time he's signed a new contract) has Jose Finte not discussed wanting a transfer?

Something's changed in the last 8 weeks, and it isn't the club.

 

[SaintinNZ]

It's the fact that you give your opinion as fact. It's not, it's your opinion.

Even reading this post above and "doubling down on a losing hand" just tells me more about your approach and half full glass tha anything else. Amazing that a positive thing can be turned into a negative.

Not at all, you have a habit of talking down to anyone who makes a point you disagree with. There is nothing half-full about my attitude. I am making a specific point and thats pretty clear if you bother to give it some consideration. If you can argue that we haven't created a culture of being a stepping stone over the past four years then do so.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Not at all, you have a habit of talking down to anyone who makes a point you disagree with. There is nothing half-full about my attitude. I am making a specific point and thats pretty clear if you bother to give it some consideration. If you can argue that we haven't created a culture of being a stepping stone over the past four years then do so.

He isn't arguing that we haven't created a stepping stone culture - he's arguing whether that culture is a negative.

Dortmund, Athletic Madrid, Benfica, Sevilla are all stepping stone clubs to the European Giants, but are all doing really ****ing well.
So are we. We may continue to do well, if we give the board and manager a chance!

 

[Lovelocum]

Have there been any newsworthy events? Or just fonte bashing? (Slash board slash agents slash football culture bashing).

 

[Beef]

You can blame the board for setting a precedent though

Players would have gone anyways. People need to realise that we aren't a big club, we aren't a big city and 99% of the time the only players that will come to us are the ones wanting to use us as a stepping stone.

The only true way we stop it is by buying average journey men instead of young up and coming players. But then the board would get moaned at for that as well.

 

[Onionman]

Yes I agree, but every season there has been a reason to discuss it. I'm not worried about the sale of Mane for what it was, we sold for too little but we made a good profit and individual players are replaceable. I do have grave concerns about the culture of the players and in my opinion whether its football clubs or working for an IT company, if every year the best performing employee's get headhunted by Google for a whopping payrise and a writeup in a dozen IT magazines then to me there is only one reason to perform at your best and give it your all. Its a negative reason to perform and that seems wrong.

I disagree that there's anything about it that's negative largely because I think it's all very deliberate. This is not accidental. I believe we're following exactly the trajectory that Olympique Lyonnais followed when they went in a few years from unknown provincial nobodies to European powerhouse. Buy anyone you think is cheap, sell anyone you think is expensive, don't buy kids, offload old players and have no emotional attachment to players. That's a quick précis of a bigger strategy but it worked for them and it's working for us. (I also don't think we sold Mane for too little. About the right price for his good games but way, way overpriced for the games where he wasn't effective.)

I also think that you're missing something in your IT analogy. Yes, your guys are headhunted but before that you get three years out of grossly underpriced talent before passing them off for daft money to fund yet more underpriced talent. That's the way to (a) perform - you have good people and (b) get better - every year your war chest grows.

Finally, I don't care if players are playing because they love us or if it's to impress their next team. They are still playing well for us, which I'd have thought we all want.

Finally, finally, I expect to see exactly the same post towards the end of the transfer window next summer. If I could be bothered, I'd dig one up from last year for fun.

Vin

 

[SaintinNZ]

He isn't arguing that we haven't created a stepping stone culture - he's arguing whether that culture is a negative.Dortmund, Athletic Madrid, Benfica, Sevilla are all stepping stone clubs to the European Giants, but are all doing really ****ing well.
So are we. We may continue to do well, if we give the board and manager a chance!

I will say again that the board have done a fantastic job recruiting, I've never said different. I've been a supporter since the 70's and I've never seen such success.

I do not agree that the clubs position of being a stepping stone is a good one to be in. Yes we've always been known for selling our best young talents, but we are not in the same position any longer. Last year we were one win off the Champions league and at some point on the upward trajectory we need to shift stance and hold on to talent when we need to. Not sell because we have to.

None of the leagues you've highlighted are as competitive as the Premier League either, thats not to dismiss your point but just saying that it will work for us the same as it works for Atletico in the long run.

 

[Beef]

Have there been any newsworthy events? Or just fonte bashing? (Slash board slash agents slash football culture bashing).

Why would there be any events until he leaves? Or until his agent gets him to accept a crazy contract?