Off Topic Politics Thread

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spacedsaint said:
I am really not sure what to think of the Corbyn stuff. He offers ideology where British politics is a vacuum - yet if you really think what ideology it is, it is the ideology of students on rallies and not the ideology of the working man. In other words, he doesn't represent real working class people. In fact, he represents middle class student lefties... He's a **** leader and he is hamstrung by having pretended to be pro-Remain, when his Leave nature could have been a strength and made the referendum vote a victory for him.
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I think the role of a leader is to give leadership, not just represent the views of his electorate. I accept that Corbyn hasn't taken his electorate with him, but having an ideology which most of the Labour Party's natural supporters could be persuaded to vote for by the right person is surely what a Labour leader is all about? The last leader of the traditional soft left version of the LP was John Smith, whose ideology wasn't that different from Corbyn's. If only he hadn't tragically died before he could face a General Election we would have been spared the Blair fiasco which was the real reason Labour lost its way.
 
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spacedsaint said:
Not Chuka Imunna please. He looks and sounds like a Tory who go lost.
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He has a forensic mind, is passionate and persuasive. But what you have just said sort of confirms what a friend of mine said the other day - that outside of London, it'd be impossible to elect a well educated black man in an Oswald Boateng suit.

This country really is split down the middle isn't it? Thank God I live in London. I really don't like the rest of my country very much right now. That's not aimed at any individuals btw, but it's very much how I feel.
 
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spacedsaint said:
I think you are becoming a little too obsessed with making us Spanish!
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Trying to make Labour more appealing to the general public. I think he has that star quality. But Labour do need to think outside that box and look outside the UK. Sanchez may be too European but how about looking for possibilities in the Australian Labour Party. A fresh approach is definitely needed and is not going to come from within.
 
Archers Road said:
He has a forensic mind, is passionate and persuasive. But what you have just said sort of confirms what a friend of mine said the other day - that outside of London, it'd be impossible to elect a well educated black man in an Oswald Boateng suit.

This country really is split down the middle isn't it? Thank God I live in London. I really don't like the rest of my country very much right now. That's not aimed at any individuals btw, but it's very much how I feel.
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It wasn't about his colour. He's firmly a career politician and New Labour. I would have no problem with Dianne Abott - whose politics seem further to the left.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
I think the role of a leader is to give leadership, not just represent the views of his electorate. I accept that Corbyn hasn't taken his electorate with him, but having an ideology which most of the Labour Party's natural supporters could be persuaded to vote for by the right person is surely what a Labour leader is all about? The last leader of the traditional soft left version of the LP was John Smith, whose ideology wasn't that different from Corbyn's. If only he hadn't tragically died before he could face a General Election we would have been spared the Blair fiasco which was the real reason Labour lost its way.
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That's why I said I was a bit confused with Corbyn. I also want a leftist Labour.
 
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The Ides of March said:
Trying to make Labour more appealing to the general public. I think he has that star quality. But Labour do need to think outside that box and look outside the UK. Sanchez may be too European but how about looking for possibilities in the Australian Labour Party. A fresh approach is definitely needed and is not going to come from within.
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Ides, don't ever change. Your peculiar brand of magnificent eccentricity is an absolute tonic. **** knows where you get all your daft ideas from, but keep em coming.
 
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Archers Road said:
<laugh> I'd have a massive problem with Dianne Abbott. Christ no, not her, are you mad? ****it, have a beer on me <cheers>
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Look, all I want is a reasonable Labour Party which veers to the left. Chuka has made it very clear he is a centrist politician and that doesn't suit my particular Labour leanings. You seem to think everyone but you is a bigot. Well, your sexist crap doesn't cut it with me!







I am obviously being glib with the sexism comment, but don't start throwing racism into the bloody mix. I can dislike Umunna without race coming into it. It is your racial obsession which seemed to drive your response.
 
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spacedsaint said:
Look, all I want is a reasonable Labour Party which veers to the left. Chuka has made it very clear he is a centrist politician and that doesn't suit my particular Labour leanings. You seem to think everyone but you is a bigot. Well, your sexist crap doesn't cut it with me!







I am obviously being glib with the sexism comment, but don't start throwing racism into the bloody mix. I can dislike Umunna without race coming into it. It is your racial obsession which seemed to drive your response.
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Alright, forget that, it's obvious we're worlds apart. Two questions for you then;

1) Do you believe a Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn can win a general election?
2) On what specific areas of policy do you disagree with Chuka Imunna's views?
 
Corbyn really needs to "take one for the team" and resign.
He has some good thoughts, but lacks the gravitas and ability to engage with people to the extent where the people can really get behind him, with any confidence in his ability to actually deliver.
It's not just for the benefit of the Labour Party, but for the benefit of the country, because there needs to be another strong option to the Conservatives.
With Boris potentially being the next Tory leader, and PM <yikes> this is the ideal time for Labour to install a "leader" and come up with some real policies. Especially if, as rumoured, Boris calls an immediate election. There are going to be a lot of people, who abandoned Labour at the last General Election, who will remember only too clearly, the lies Boris and his Brexiteers brought to the EU Referendum.
 
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ImpSaint said:
Petition for second EU referendum may have been manipulated
Data shows people from countries including Iceland and Tunisia backed petition that should be signed only by Britons and UK residents
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Yeah, it's pretty stupid that they made it so easy to vote despite not being a UK citizen and also to stuff the ballot. But in the end it doesn't matter. They needed 100k votes. I have zero doubt that they have well over 100k legit votes. The whole thing is a farce anyway.
 
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Archers Road said:
Alright, forget that, it's obvious we're worlds apart. Two questions for you then;

1) Do you believe a Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn can win a general election?
2) On what specific areas of policy do you disagree with Chuka Imunna's views?
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1) I agree. He won't win.
2) I have found his approach to Corbyn pretty disgraceful. He didn't even try to get behind a leftist figure. He went to private school and referred to people who go to night clubs in the West End as "trash". You are right to say he is highly capable, but I don't see him representing a left leaning Labour - which I want.
 
spacedsaint said:
1) I agree. He won't win.
2) I have found his approach to Corbyn pretty disgraceful. He didn't even try to get behind a leftist figure. He went to private school and referred to people who go to night clubs in the West End as "trash". You are right to say he is highly capable, but I don't see him representing a left leaning Labour - which I want.
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Who would be your choice? (other than Dianne Abbott)
 
Archers Road said:
Who would be your choice? (other than Dianne Abbott)
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Ha, I haven't a bloody clue. I think I'll be let down and Labour will plump straight back into the middle - which may be a good thing in the current climate - but I would like to find a candidate halfway between Umunna and Corbyn.

And yes, there isn't one.
 
spacedsaint said:
Ha, I haven't a bloody clue. I think I'll be let down and Labour will plump straight back into the middle - which may be a good thing in the current climate - but I would like to find a candidate halfway between Umunna and Corbyn.

And yes, there isn't one.
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Names I've seen floated: Lisa Nandy and Dan Jarvis?

How do you feel about them?
 
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