Off Topic European Debate Thread

Someone sent an email to their MP (Philip Davies) asking for help to get a 2nd referendum. The MP sent the following reply...

 

Sorry but I'm a bit pissed, in case you ain't realised Wales won. But I read that NI is appealing is this true? Is the remain picking up the ball and refusing to play? Are we in Eu or not. **** I'm confused and it's only 10pm

 

Yes they are appealing. They said losing 1-0 was too close of an outcome so they have set up a petition to get the game replayed

By the way, its a lot later than 10pm

 

Oh yeah, doh me . not the best games but none of them are now unfortunately.

 

Not when you quote from an article written three months or so before the Brexit vote.
Now I can see it will pain you to admit it, but try reading post Brexit reports in the news and you will find that the mayor of Calais has requested from her Government that the agreement is dumped as we no longer wish to be within the agreed EU rules.
The estimated result being that our Border control will be removed from Calais and we will subsequently have to deal with the influx of immigrants on the British side of the Channel.

I have accepted the result of the referendum. Now people like yourself who were so vehemently for it must accept the less favourable consequences of that decision as well as what may be positive.

 

Sorry Sapph, you know I love you but I think you havent got all the info my friend. This link has all of what you are saying but it also has what the French governments are saying to0...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/25/french-border-deal-wont-be-affected-by-brexit-paris

Key bits that may be of interest for you

The French foreign minister, Jean-Marc Ayrault, dismissed outright calls from politicians on the French right for a post-Brexit renegotiation of the Le Touquet accord that could push the border back to the Kent coast. He said in a TV interview: “Would that also mean putting in place boats for people who otherwise risk drowning? I think we should be serious."

The French government spokesman and agriculture minister, Stéphane Le Foll said: "On the question of immigration, to be clear, British exit from the European Union will not lead to changes in terms of immigration treaties with United Kingdom. These are bilateral treaties.”

Since the Brexit vote, the French government has stressed that there would be no change to the border deal with Britain. Because the Le Touquet accord is between France and Britain directly, and not linked to the European Union, there is no automatic need to renegotiate the deal.


At the bottom of that link...

The foreign minister said additional important agreements between France and Britain such as the 2010 Lancaster House defence and security treaties would also be maintained.

Cazeneuve has repeatedly said that changing the British-French immigration deal would not be in French interests. He warned earlier this year that a change to the deal would send a signal to traffickers and smugglers that they could legitimately leave people at the French border to cross to England and would lead to tens of thousands more migrants in northern France.


Do you have anymore "less favourable consequences" that you would like for us to 'try' and reassure you with? I will do my best to try

 

So firstly CJS has proved yet again amongst the myriad of ****e on here that your post is also a complete load of bollocks! ( and your lot say the out campaign was lies???) Where do you get this rubbish from??

To answer your question.

Yes I will, sometimes it will hurt and sometimes it will be for the better, that is life.. I have never lived my life with regrets. I wanted out and that is what happened, what comes will be sucked up by me and I will live with it, good and bad.

What I wouldn't ever have done in a million years is whine like the stay lot have had I lost.. quite frankly I am embarrassed for you all. What a way to behave having lost something. its against every common decency I have ever learnt from life and playing sport, its pathetic.

Seriously, grow up...

 

Are you a Remain campaigner?

Are you sore about the referendum result?

Check out these 10 top self-comforting strategies.

1.) Call every white person who voted Leave a "racist", ignoring the fact that Europeans are also white. Make sure you ignore and marginalise ethnic minority leave voters.

2.) Claim that the (huge) turnout wasn't high enough. 72%? It should have been at least 75%! 80%? It should have been 85%! Make sure to keep moving the goalposts.

3.) Make a stupid e-petition demanding another referendum, just like the socialists did when Labour lost last year. We need to keep having referendums until we get the "right" result.

4.) Get over-excited about the economy, even if the impact has been pretty boring and mundane. Pretend that your 2:2 in English Literature makes you an expert on currency markets.

5.) Attack the very idea of Democracy, because it's only a good thing when it goes the way you want it to. Working class voters don't know what's good for them, but middle class liberals definitely do.

6.) Share memes bashing Brexit, ignoring the unwelcome and uncomfortable realisation that you are in the minority of public opinion.

7.) Boldly claim that Scotland will leave the UK, forgetting that A) they can't afford to B) the EU can't afford to take them C) 1.6m remain votes don't cancel out 2m NO votes.

8.) Make fun of Boris Johnson while sweating slightly and really hoping he doesn't become Prime Minister.

9.) Learn absolutely nothing from the campaign, blaming the result on everyone but yourself. Scaremongering and bullying are clearly the best tactics to use, there's no way they could possibly backfire.

10.) Curl up in a ball and cry yourself to sleep while listening to "Ode to Joy

 

I hope you are right CJS.
It would be naïve not to accept that what was said by all European Governments before Brexit has to be considered as political speak.
BUT we are talking about the French.
What they say has often, very little to do with what they do!
If the rules don't fit their requirements, they find ways around the problem.
For example, it will not be a problem for them to manipulate their side of the deal so that their control is discretely relaxed and there are more 'holes' in their security for the desperate immigrants to pass through.
The mayor of Calais has been banging on about the fact that the Jungle is Britain's problem and should not be hers for some time.
Whose side of the fence will the French Government fall eventually? Take note of the now and you may well detect a different attitude.

Well you could reassure me that all you guys will chip in and top my pension pot back up!

 

Its interesting that remainers are telling us that the EU referendum should be null and void due to less than 75% turnout.

Maybe the leavers should tell Nicola Sturgeon and Scotland that they only had 67% turnout in the EU referendum which is not enough to leave the UK

Thats 33% (a third of Scots who could have voted) that didnt even bother to vote.

Also, how about this...

Scotland voted...
Remain 1,661,191
Leave 1,018,322
= 2,679,513 people voted.
We know thats just two thirds of Scots that could have voted.
Doing the maths, this means the other 3rd of Scots who didnt vote is around 1.3 million.

So...
1 million voted to leave the EU
1.3 million didnt vote at all.
= 2.3 million didnt vote remain.
1.6 million voted remain.

So just a 3rd of Scots wanted to actually remain. So why did Nicola Sturgeon say... "Scotland has delivered a strong, unequivocal vote to remain in the EU" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36615177

If remainers want to continue to say "leave winning was not the majority" then they need to tell Nicola Sturgeon and Scotland that they voting to remain was not the majority so shut the **** up about leaving the UK. Remainers cant have it both ways.

 

Just to let you know (as it comes across in your reply that you think the info in my last comment was before Brexit) was after the EU referendum result
Before the referendum, the EU and the like of France and Germany made threats about what they will do to us which was just their way to scare us into remaining. That is just my opinion though but its funny that France is now saying the French border rules wont change. And now we got the German Chancellor Angela Merkel saying the European Union has "no need to be particularly nasty in any way" in the negotiations with Britain about its exit from the bloc. She insisted that deterring other countries from leaving the EU should not be a priority in the talks. And she added she was not in favour of pushing for a speedy withdrawal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36630326

Interesting times!

As for your pension, this is just my opinion so I could be wrong but its taken a hit but not as big as predicted. It will improve too.

 

As you say we will have to wait and see how things work out.

It is going to be a challenge for the rest of the EU. If you take out what it costs to 'pay' our 73 of 731members of the EU parliament; servicing costs for our members attending other committees; administration of funds et al., they have to find a shortfall of £10.1 Billion which is our net annual outlay to fund their project.
We of course will save money by not contributing. Take 2015. Our net cost to the EU was £17M per day which comes out at about 30 pence per person per day (taken from InFacts). (These are numbers bandied about by both sides. Don't bother with your calculator, they don't relate to each other).
There was a good read in Wetherspoon's magazine over a cheap glass of beer!. Significant figures explaining all sides of the argument.
Anyway. We have made a decision. It's water under the bridge.
If we have dug a hole we must climb out of it.
If we a sitting at the top of the best heap of fertilizer, GREAT.

 

Sober now

Merkel is no way a stupid women and she knows turning her back on Britain now will hurt her ecomony. The last thing she wants now is unrest in her country. If nothing she wants to protect her stance in the EU as anything dips the German public could insist on having a referendum of their own. I don't think they will be that far behind anyway but that is my opinion and definitely not a fact so please don't ask for proof.
The French possibly some will be awkward after all we've never been bossom buddies of neighbours and anything to wind up each other is never far away. But this could be only the Calais mayor blowing hot air as higher goverment levels don't have the same small mentality as the rest of us.
France itself is not on great finances and jobs so that leaves Germany now propping up the EU.
I think it's time to remember Farage is not going to be PM so stop classing every Brexit voter in his mould.

 

Francis Maude on the Andrew Marr show this morning.. Some of you would do well to listen to him

Straightforward common sense..

 

We hope you enjoyed the reason for your lousy headache this morning. Great result for you!
Your comments otherwise are very perceptive coming out on a fuggy morning.

 

Has no one noticed that the unelected bureaucrats or Europe (Juncker etc) are the ones making all the threatening noises, but the elected leaders of Europe (Merkel) etc are the ones making more conciliatory statements.

Has anyone stopped to think why that might be?

 

Stay lot still arguing over the £350m per week being taken back in to the NHS.

For the first time I saw the leave campaign poster stating that the £350m per week could be ploughed back in to the NHS.
Whoever did that poster is a complete idiot as it would have been so obviously untrue. A mistake by leave definitely.

Some points because even elected politicians seem unable to understand this.

Nigel Farage is not part of leave and did not claim this at any point. I say this as he seems to be taking all the blame for it.

Stay made a strong point about the nett figure was only approx £136m after hand backs.. this appears to be true.

The other figure of approx £214m will (apparently) be ring fenced for the projects it was already being paid to.. (Farmers, Science etc etc.)

The rest (circa £10bn per annum) will be available for priorities like the NHS. Not being paid to bureaucrats in Brussels to swap offices every 23 days and the rest of the extravagancies they enjoy. How it is spent will be down to the government of the day.. (as it quite rightly should be!)

Has this been misrepresented.. it would seem so.

Is the end result good news? It would appear so to me.

For those so offended by this, Sajid Javid was interviewed by Andrew Marr this morning and admitted the 'punishment budget' was not really meant and was just politicking.

Both sides were equally guilty of misrepresenting facts..

 

Day Two:

- the Labour party is about to self destruct

Not normally a massive issue to me at least as they are not my party of choice (did vote for them once though). HOWEVER, at this particular moment, when we have no effective leadership, the opposition falling apart at the same time will just lead to more instability...

- it is beginning, firms are making plans to move jobs the UK if we are not in the EEA. You will recall that a condition of membership is free movement of people, Work it out yourself. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36629745

This is the issue that I was referring to as an "amnesty" - passporting is the correct terminology

On the issue of terminology, CJS correctly picked me up on the credit rating which he rightly says is currently unaltered. My point however was that as I suspect CJS already knows, that the downgrade to a "negative" outlook is enough to affect the terms on which we can borrow money, do you concede this point CJS..?

Interestingly, I note that Sturgeon reckons she can veto the leave decision, it is about to get Braveheart, very soon...!

As far as trading with America is concerned, a few comments. As we know, this is currently through the EU deal so we would need to set up our our deal. FIne, no problem...? consider this

The USA, although being called "united", is in act 50 separate states, each with its own rules and regulations and no uniformity. So, although the EU comprises 28 countries, it trades as one entity. In essence, we will have to make an agreement broad enough to satisfy all of the individual quirks of the 50 states. Like I said before, good luck in getting that one done inside 10 years....